Deserving

Neogaia777 · Jun 25, 2019

Jason0047 said:
I am not accusing anyone of doing this.
I was merely provided this scenario to make my point.

Which is/was...?

BTW, If you think we don't feel bad about that, then you've got another thing coming...

(don't worry I know you don't get what I'm saying and/or mean) (because it takes trained "spiritual" discernment)...

Anyway,

God Bless!

Neogaia777 · Jun 25, 2019

Jason0047 said:
I am not accusing anyone of doing this personally.

And, "Oh, but you are, Jason"...

God Bless!

Bible Highlighter · Jun 25, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
Which is/was...?

BTW, If you think we don't feel bad about that, then you've got another thing coming...

(don't worry I know you don't get what I'm saying and/or mean) (because it takes trained "spiritual" discernment)...

Anyway,

God Bless!

I don't see a Bible verse in your post, so I am not really interested in debating or conversing with you endlessly if you don't have a Bible verse to discuss.

Blessings to you in the Lord.

Bible Highlighter · Jun 25, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
And, "Oh, but you are, Jason"...

God Bless!

Nope. That would be false. I merely made the scenario up as a point to fit my example and I did not have anyone specific in mind. Maybe Hitler or something comes close to my analogy. But again, it would not be an exact fit to the scenario I made.

Neogaia777 · Jun 25, 2019

@Jason0047,

It's not my fault that you do not know and are completely unaware of what it is you are doing in the Spirit, or to the Spirit even...

Peace out,

God Bless!

Lulav · Jun 25, 2019

Hammster said:
We become His children.

And when do you think that happens?

Neogaia777 · Jun 25, 2019

Matthew 6:5-8: “And when you pray, (or speak) you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray (or speak before) standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward in full. “But you, when you pray, (or speak) go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. “And when you pray, (or speak) do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him.

Matthew 6:5: “And when you pray, (or speak) do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

God Bless!

Bible Highlighter · Jun 25, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
@Jason0047,

It's not my fault that you do not know and are completely unaware of what it is you are doing in the Spirit, or to the Spirit even...

Peace out,

God Bless!

This is merely an ad hominem and it is not addressing the topic we are discussing here.

Bible Highlighter · Jun 25, 2019

Neogaia777 said:
Matthew 6:5-8: “And when you pray, (or speak) you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray (or speak before) standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward in full. “But you, when you pray, (or speak) go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly. “And when you pray, (or speak) do not use vain repetitions as the heathen do. For they think that they will be heard for their many words. “Therefore do not be like them. For your Father knows the things you have need of before you ask Him.

Matthew 6:5: “And when you pray, (or speak) do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full.

God Bless!

If you are referring to me: I do not pray in vain repetition. I don't even try to say the Lord's prayer in a repeated fashion, but I use it as an outline in praying sometimes.

I am a Trinitarian Sola Scriptura Christian who believes "faith + works of faith = salvation." Sola Scriptura means I do not hold to church traditions (whereby vain repetitious prayer is known to take place sometimes - depending on the church organization).

Hammster · Jun 26, 2019

Jason0047 said:
Imagine if a son murdered a ton of people and then he killed the majority of his own family. Would his father still love him in the same way he did when he was a cute and harmless little baby? What if his son planned to do more evil and even take the life of his own father? Would such a son be deserving of his father's love and forgiveness? I would say... "no." Yes, there is a difference between a child making an honest small mistake, but they seek forgiveness with their father. But major crimes can invite even the law to put a son behind bars even whereby it is even outside of the father's control.

You have to understand that while grace does abound (Romans 5:20), grace also reigns through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord (Romans 5:21).

This is what Ephesians 5:25-27 is all about.

You don’t understand grace. I’m not saying it for debate points, or to goad. It’s just a fact. I show you right from scripture how blessed is a man who’s sins are forgiven, and you try to come up with a scenario where someone cannot be forgiven.

Well, as hard as it may sound, those sins you mentioned are sins that Christ died for, if that man is a Child of God. You can pretend that murder is worse than a lie, but it’s still a sin that Christ would need to atone for. All unrighteousness is sin.

Hammster · Jun 26, 2019

Jason0047 said:
But the bride calls us to others to come and to drink of the water of life freely.

"And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." (Revelation 22:17).

And your point?

Hammster · Jun 26, 2019

Lulav said:
And when do you think that happens?

But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name,
— John 1:12

Hammster · Jun 26, 2019

Jason0047 said:
If you are referring to me: I do not pray in vain repetition. I don't even try to say the Lord's prayer in a repeated fashion, but I use it as an outline in praying sometimes.

I am a Trinitarian Sola Scriptura Christian who believes "faith + works of faith = salvation." Sola Scriptura means I do not hold to church traditions (whereby vain repetitious prayer is known to take place sometimes - depending on the church organization).

Are you part of a local body that can hold you accountable?

Bible Highlighter · Jun 26, 2019

Hammster said:
You don’t understand grace. I’m not saying it for debate points, or to goad. It’s just a fact. I show you right from scripture how blessed is a man who’s sins are forgiven, and you try to come up with a scenario where someone cannot be forgiven.

1 John 1:7 says if we walk in the light as He [Christ] is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. 1 John 2:8-11 (using other words) says that loving one's brother is walking in the light. So we have to love our brother in order for the blood of Jesus to cleanse us. This lines up with 1 John 3:15 that says if we hate our brother, no eternal life abides in us. This lines up with Hebrews 5:9 that essentially says that Christ is the author of eternal salvation to all who obey Him.

You said:
Well, as hard as it may sound, those sins you mentioned are sins that Christ died for, if that man is a Child of God. You can pretend that murder is worse than a lie, but it’s still a sin that Christ would need to atone for. All unrighteousness is sin.

What do you make of Jude 1:4? Does not certain translations say on Jude 1:4 that there are those who turn God's grace into a license for immorality? How do you interpret or understand that verse?

Anyways, there is no need to discuss any further if you do not understand that the guy who murdered a bunch of people (and continued to do such a thing) would be in clear violation of God's goodness and or basic morality (under God's grace). This is something I cannot teach you as being wrong even with a Bible verse or passage. It is a basic truth that you have to come to know on your own with God.

In any event, I think it is best to agree to disagree (Based on what you said here).

I am wishing you nothing but good things to you in Christ Jesus.

Hammster · Jun 26, 2019

Jason0047 said:
What do you make of Jude 1:4? Does not certain translations say on Jude 1:4 that there are those who turn God's grace into a license for immorality? How do you interpret or understand that verse?

It means exactly what it says.

For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
— Jude 4

This would be your Joel Osteens and Benny Hinns and Joyce Meyers. Or anyone who tries to add to the gospel. Or folks who say that some sins aren’t as bad as others.

Hammster · Jun 26, 2019

Jason0047 said:
Anyways, there is no need to discuss any further if you do not understand that the guy who murdered a bunch of people (and continued to do such a thing) would be in clear violation of God's goodness and or basic morality (under God's grace). This is something I cannot teach you as being wrong even with a Bible verse or passage. It is a basic truth that you have to come to know on your own with God.

You’ve twisted what I said, and hopefully I can show you so that you won’t be in error.

I never once said that a person like that is not in violation of God’s goodness. Not once. Every sin is unrighteousness. Every sin needs atoned for in order for a man to be in Christ.

Can we outsin God’s grace? No. Does that give us license to sin? Heaven forbid. That’s Paul’s argument in Romans 4 and 5. Grace is greater than all our sin. You, however, teach that we can outsin God’s grace.

Perhaps you are conflating our union with Christ and our communion with Christ. Our union cannot be broken. Our communion can suffer depending on our walk. But you won’t ever understand that as long as you think that your union is based upon your works.

Hammster · Jun 26, 2019

Jason0047 said:
If you are referring to me: I do not pray in vain repetition. I don't even try to say the Lord's prayer in a repeated fashion, but I use it as an outline in praying sometimes.

I am a Trinitarian Sola Scriptura Christian who believes "faith + works of faith = salvation." Sola Scriptura means I do not hold to church traditions (whereby vain repetitious prayer is known to take place sometimes - depending on the church organization).

Are you part of a local body that can hold you accountable?

Bible Highlighter · Jun 26, 2019

Hammster said:
It means exactly what it says.

For certain persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.
— Jude 4

This would be your Joel Osteens and Benny Hinns and Joyce Meyers. Or anyone who tries to add to the gospel. Or folks who say that some sins aren’t as bad as others.

Maybe I misunderstood you, but did you not imply that the son (Who was a child of God) who murdered in my scenario would be saved despite his continued murdering?

Hammster · Jun 26, 2019

Jason0047 said:
Maybe I misunderstood you, but did you not imply that the son (Who was a child of God) who murdered in my scenario would be saved despite his continued murdering?

No, you didn’t misunderstand.

What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh, has found? For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” Now to the one who works, his wage is not credited as a favor, but as what is due. But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness, just as David also speaks of the blessing on the man to whom God credits righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds have been forgiven,
And whose sins have been covered. “Blessed is the man whose sin the Lord will not take into account.”
— Romans 4:1-8

That’s grace, my friend.

TheSeabass · Jun 26, 2019

Hammster said:
So God had to act upon you to make you worthy.

When God created man, including me, God gives each of us value, gives us a soul and that is why God loves man and has such great interest in man. In the OT, the Gentiles were not God's chosen people, yet God still had love for the Gentiles and had interest in their being saved as seen by His sending Jonah to preach to them.

You do not deal with what the true problem is, and that lingering problem is Calvinism. Calvinism falsely claims Christ atonement was limited to just a few, meaning God sees no value or worth in the rest of men He created in His image with a valuable, precious soul.
Calvinism would have God, before the world began and before any man did anything good or bad (Romans 9:11), already "hating" certain men. They did nothing to deserve God's 'hate'. If before the world began no one had done anything worthy to deserve God's love, no one had done anything worthy to deserve His 'hate'.

Deserving

Old Soul

Old Soul

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Old Soul

Y'shua is His Name

Old Soul

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Psalm 144:1

Psalm 144:1

Psalm 144:1

Psalm 144:1

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Psalm 144:1

Psalm 144:1

Psalm 144:1

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Psalm 144:1

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