Christians funding an appeal of a christian dismissed. Is it ethical or outrageously immoral

Zoii · Jun 25, 2019

Kate30 said:
Zoli whilst employed at any school you must abide with what they teach. That is of course within your hours of work. Christian schools have many teachers that do believe otherwise and do not adhere to the Christian Faith. Just as many Christians work in secular schools. What both believe and say in their own personal time out of work they are free to do. If the curriculum taught that there is no God. I would simply resign. Maybe a atheist would do the same if he had to teach there was a God. As to many Christians getting upset they probably do as I’m sure atheists do as well. But that’s not the question at hand. And that is I don’t have right to dismiss anyone simply because of what they believe and express outside of working hours.

And let's be clear. He's not said
Hey kids Jesus loves you
Or kids don't take drugs
Or hey saw you guys playing rugby at the local ground. Awesome
No .. Israel chooses to tell the rugby community they are going to burn in hell forever. That's how dispicable he believes them to be.

I loved Israel. I followed his account
Now he's telling me my parents are evil because they are Buddhists.
He is telling my teammate she is evil because she's lesbian
She telling his own teammates they are evil because they have a beer or have sex.

This is how he chooses to be an ambassador for Christianity. To slap the face of the rugby community that have given him so much support.... Financially and emotionally. Now he tells us all how bad we are.
He embodied the very opposite of what rugby stands for and its got nothing to do with his chosen religion but everything to do with the he way he attacks our community. Is this the type of representation Christians laud.

Sketcher · Jun 25, 2019

Zoii said:
To be accurate - he targets those who are not christian but of another religion (idolators).

He targets those who are in a loving relationship but not traditionally married referring to them as fornicators.

He targets those who drink
Those are same sex attracted
Those who are atheist
those who have lied.

He states they are so evil that they will burn in hell forever.

What a disgusting message to be telling young people playing the game - that their parents who are either unwed, or are atheist or Sikh, are so disgusting they will burn in a fire.

What is wrong with Christians that you feel so compelled to be so hateful.

Can you clarify something for me?

What have his teammates said about how he treats them - not about his social media, but about the kind of teammate he is to them in the locker room, in practice, out of practice, during a game?

Zoii · Jun 25, 2019

Sketcher said:
Can you clarify something for me?

What have his teammates said about how he treats them - not about his social media, but about the kind of teammate he is to them in the locker room, in practice, out of practice, during a game?

They are not happy

Sketcher · Jun 25, 2019

Zoii said:
They are not happy

I didn't mean about his social media posts. I meant how he has historically related with them as a teammate. What was his reputation as a teammate before this social media issue got him fired? On all the teams that he's been on, as long as he has been famous?

keith99 · Jun 25, 2019

Carl Emerson said:
Jesus was very insulting at times...

Only to those who were within his religion and were leaders or who flaunted their piety.

Today Christians instead seem to be critical of those outside their faith while letting any behavior by Christians including those in the pulpit slide with little to no comment.

Zoii · Jun 25, 2019

Sketcher said:
I didn't mean about his social media posts. I meant how he has historically related with them as a teammate. What was his reputation as a teammate before this social media issue got him fired? On all the teams that he's been on, as long as he has been famous?

I don't know from a team mate perspective. I can only state from someone who plays women's touch rugby myself and followed his social media. I liked him. I thought he was a brilliant player. I thought he was a nice guy until he stabbed my father (who is a rugby player and match official) and me in the heart. He broke my heart with his attacks and he keeps repeating them. He goes on lecture tours now saying how people like my father.... A person who has not been paid for his 30 year tireless work for rugby and juniors.... Told by Folau he is so dispicable that he'll burn in a pit of fire.

I liked Folau. I just thought this was such an opportunity to role model the good for both rugby and Christianity
But he has elected instead to vilify. He doesn't say... Oh sorry look I'm not trying to upset people.... On the contrary he continues to repeat it to make sure we understand his disliking of us.

It's not about freedom of religion. I have Christians a Sikh and atheists in my team.

It's about representing your employer well. Someone cited an Anglican bishops comment re freedom of religion. Yet when a moslem religious group held protest signs talking about death to infidels, the same church highlighted how such groups need to be curbed for their hate.

Surely you don't want a Moslem on your Christian school saying Christians should be beheaded.

Well I don't like it that Folau is saying my dad has to be thrown in a fire for eternity, and saying it with an Australian rugby jumper on.

keith99 · Jun 25, 2019

Zoii said:
To be accurate - he targets those who are not christian but of another religion (idolators).

He targets those who are in a loving relationship but not traditionally married referring to them as fornicators.

He targets those who drink
Those are same sex attracted
Those who are atheist
those who have lied.

He states they are so evil that they will burn in hell forever.

What a disgusting message to be telling young people playing the game - that their parents who are either unwed, or are atheist or Sikh, are so disgusting they will burn in a fire.

What is wrong with Christians that you feel so compelled to be so hateful.

I play rugby. My parents are buddhist. They are gentle and good people. You all seem to think they are evil. I cannot express my disgust for Folau, and those Christians supporting him, strongly enough.

He was idolised and had so much opportunity to sell compassion and love but he has chosen instead to vilify and hate.

I wonder how many of you would be crying foul if a moslem teacher in a christian school started spraying ant-christian sentiment. I bet many of you would change your tune.

Rugby has a long tradition of a reception after each match hosted by the home side where both teams drink as friends. It was that way when I toured England and Wales with my college side. It was that way when I spent a season playing in New Zealand. It was that way when I was on tour with my college Olde Boys side in Australia. It has been that way for the over 40 years I have played in America.

So he has insulted over 95% of the players and fans and several major sponsors.

An interesting side note is that I have played against several Islander sides which were predominantly Mormon and against drinking. I never was insulted by any of those players in that manner. It simply is not done.

The players for on the national sides of India and Pakistan socialize and often host their opposite number even when tensions are running high.

People like Israel would destroy that.

Kate30 · Jun 26, 2019

Zoii said:
And let's be clear. He's not said
Hey kids Jesus loves you
Or kids don't take drugs
Or hey saw you guys playing rugby at the local ground. Awesome
No .. Israel chooses to tell the rugby community they are going to burn in hell forever. That's how dispicable he believes them to be.

I loved Israel. I followed his account
Now he's telling me my parents are evil because they are Buddhists.
He is telling my teammate she is evil because she's lesbian
She telling his own teammates they are evil because they have a beer or have sex.

This is how he chooses to be an ambassador for Christianity. To slap the face of the rugby community that have given him so much support.... Financially and emotionally. Now he tells us all how bad we are.
He embodied the very opposite of what rugby stands for and its got nothing to do with his chosen religion but everything to do with the he way he attacks our community. Is this the type of representation Christians laud.

Zoli whilst you may disagree with what Israel said he is merely confirming what the bible says. As you said God is a God of love and forgiveness but he is also a God of truth and judgment too. Seems to me that your demanding that Christians should only talk about love and not the consequences of sin and rebellion against Gods word. A slap in the the face to the rugby community for all they have done. Not really I think that works both ways. Players usually get to play for their country because they are the best at what they do, without them or anyway playing your code your game ceases to exit. A mere sporting code certainly does not have the right to dictate to people what their religious beliefs shall be or what they say at church or publicly expound on social media especially in their own time. Zoli perhaps you should revaluate your own love of sport as you seem to think it can override religious freedom as well. For what was only ever meant to be a game has now become a religion and a god unto many, and also a god unto itself. And that is a great tragedy. Something that we should all reflect deeply apon. That a mere game can now dictate to what we can and can’t say of what we believe.

Sketcher · Jun 26, 2019

Zoii said:
I don't know from a team mate perspective.

And he's a superstar? This is strange to me. In the US at least, the sports media really likes to get into the star athletes - we want to know if a given star athlete is a good person who does charity work, or is egotistical so we can jump on him for that, or plays dirty so the home team can cheer him for it while everyone else hates his guts, etc. If he's a good teammate on the home team, that's the beginning of a good story. If there's drama in the locker room that he's in the middle of, that's the beginning of another kind of story that will still be popular for those who follow the sport. Does rugby in Australia not have that kind of coverage?

Part of why I ask is I'm trying to gauge the man. If he has always been popular with his teammates (many of whom won't be Christians or live like Christians should), then that indicates another dimension to him. In an example from my life, one of my co-workers who mentored me when I hired in is an atheist. His Facebook feed will have quite a few anti-Christian posts. But in person, he's an affable guy, and he knows I am Christian, and we've talked about faith before. If someone went only by his Facebook posts, it would be easy to see him as a hater. But they'd be missing the whole picture.

Zoii · Jun 26, 2019

Kate30 said:
Zoli whilst you may disagree with what Israel said he is merely confirming what the bible says. As you said God is a God of love and forgiveness but he is also a God of truth and judgment too. Seems to me that your demanding that Christians should only talk about love and not the consequences of sin and rebellion against Gods word. A slap in the the face to the rugby community for all they have done. Not really I think that works both ways. Players usually get to play for their country because they are the best at what they do, without them or anyway playing your code your game ceases to exit. A mere sporting code certainly does not have the right to dictate to people what their religious beliefs shall be or what they say at church or publicly expound on social media especially in their own time. Zoli perhaps you should revaluate your own love of sport as you seem to think it can override religious freedom as well. For what was only ever meant to be game has now become a religion and a god unto many, and also a god unto itself. And that is a great tragedy. Something that we should all reflect deeply apon. That a mere game can now dictate to what we can and can’t say of what we believe.

You have side-stepped the point - that mere game is also his employment. If Israel had said to his employer "Look I cant sign that contract because I have to tell you I will be telling 95% of the rugby players and supporters they are evil and will be put ion a fire", then I'd respect him. But no he gratefully accepts the money - and then does it anyway.

No answer this. If you employ me at your Christian school and I convert to Islam and tell students Allah wants to see their heads removed - are you going to be so casual about it as you are now - OR are you going to say "Hey you can have your Islamic beliefs, but you wont be stating them inside this school, or saying it on a social platform with the school insignia propping up your social media."

If you cannot see the ethical impropriety of that Moslem's actions, then its no wonder you cannot see the ethical impropriety of the unwarranted attack by Folau.

Zoii · Jun 26, 2019

Kate30 said:
A mere sporting code certainly does not have the right to dictate to people what their religious beliefs shall be

It doesnt. There are many players of a myriad of religions playing the code. Rugby is well known for its embracing of all people of all cultures.

Kate30 said:
what they say at church or publicly expound on social media especially in their own time.

No he may not plaster on social media that which dennigrates the game, its supporters, its players. Thats in the Code of Conduct. Even junior players are aware of that.
I;d suggest its in your contract/work policies at your workplace as well. By all means go stating on a social media that you think you boss/coworker should burn in hell because he is unwed and having sex. Let me know how that goes for you.

Kate30 said:
Zoli

My name is Zoii

Kate30 said:
For what was only ever meant to be game has now become a religion and a god unto many, and also a god unto itself.

No I do not believe in any God but have no issue with people who do. I certainly look at spiritual pathways but have recoiled from Christianity.

Occams Barber · Jun 26, 2019

Sketcher said:
And he's a superstar? This is strange to me. In the US at least, the sports media really likes to get into the star athletes - we want to know if a given star athlete is a good person who does charity work, or is egotistical so we can jump on him for that, or plays dirty so the home team can cheer him for it while everyone else hates his guts, etc. If he's a good teammate on the home team, that's the beginning of a good story. If there's drama in the locker room that he's in the middle of, that's the beginning of another kind of story that will still be popular for those who follow the sport. Does rugby in Australia not have that kind of coverage?

Part of why I ask is I'm trying to gauge the man. If he has always been popular with his teammates (many of whom won't be Christians or live like Christians should), then that indicates another dimension to him. In an example from my life, one of my co-workers who mentored me when I hired in is an atheist. His Facebook feed will have quite a few anti-Christian posts. But in person, he's an affable guy, and he knows I am Christian, and we've talked about faith before. If someone went only by his Facebook posts, it would be easy to see him as a hater. But they'd be missing the whole picture.

Israel hasn't always been homophobic. In fact, back in 2014 Issy happily posed for a cover shot in the gay magazine Star Observer, as part of a promotion for the Bingham Cup - a non-professional gay rugby tournament. Back then, a spokesperson for the Bingham Cup said Folau was a “strong advocate for ending all forms of the (gay) discrimination in sport.”

I'm left wondering what happened?

Israel Folau's appearance in gay magazine comes back to light

Zoii · Jun 26, 2019

@Sketcher and @Kate30
I should add. I think Israel, in his heart, is a good person. I think in his heart he hasn't set out to be so divisive and cause the heartache he has to so many people.

It is reported in the news that he had considered deleting his posts. Perhaps because of the insult to so many, or perhaps due to the threat of sacking.

According to the media his Pastor father told Israel that if he did he'd burn in hell for it.

I quote: “You’ll go to hell, son,” were the words the Sunday Telegraph reported the pastor told Folau

So I think in part this mess is as much about the poor counselling he has received.
If I was his pastor - Gosh I'd see him as a golden Goose. An opportunity to sell so many good messages for Christianity. So many highly ethical issues he could have discussed. So many inspiring things he could have said to his young followers.

But he was counselled instead NOT to sew positive, inspiring messages to our community, but to revile them - not ONCE but repeatedly. And then (if the media is correct) when he considered altering his path, was told he too would go to hell.

Zoii · Jun 26, 2019

Occams Barber said:
Israel hasn't always been homophobic. In fact, back in 2014 Issy happily posed for a cover shot in the gay magazine Star Observer, as part of a promotion for the Bingham Cup - a non-professional gay rugby tournament. Back then, a spokesperson for the Bingham Cup said Folau was a “strong advocate for ending all forms of the (gay) discrimination in sport.”

I'm left wondering what happened?

Israel Folau's appearance in gay magazine comes back to light

Wow Ive not seen that one before. Heck what happened to him that he changed so radically.

Zoii · Jun 26, 2019

This thread though is about using gofundme for legal appeals in matters like this. I found it disturbing because its normally used for those in terrible personal circumstances - eg a person who has lost everything in a fire.
A young person with a terminal illness who wants a trip to Disneyland before they die etc

I'm pretty sure Christians would be upset with an employee of a school who said - behead Christian school kids - got the sack for it - then ran a gofundme campaign to launch an appeal - you'd be even more upset when a flood of donations occurred from fellow moslems.

I know christians here don't agree with my view. But I'm doing my best to show you another side to things.

creslaw · Jun 26, 2019

Occams Barber said:
Israel hasn't always been homophobic. In fact, back in 2014 Issy happily posed for a cover shot in the gay magazine Star Observer, as part of a promotion for the Bingham Cup - a non-professional gay rugby tournament. Back then, a spokesperson for the Bingham Cup said Folau was a “strong advocate for ending all forms of the (gay) discrimination in sport.”
I'm left wondering what happened?

Israel Folau is still opposed to discrimination against homosexuals. His recent comments expressed what his church believes about homosexuality and other sins, including the words "Jesus Christ loves you and is giving you time to turn away from your sins".

Folau has never actively discriminated against homosexuals, or suggested others should do so, and the magazine cover shows, he is actually supportive of them but believes same sex activity is sinful as the Bible teaches ... in the same way I believe my son living with a woman is contrary to Scripture (sin) but I enjoy spending time with him and his partner.

In the 2017 same sex marriage debate & vote held in Australia Folau stated: "I love and respect all people for who they are and their opinions. but personally, I will not support gay marriage."

Sketcher · Jun 26, 2019

Zoii said:
This thread though is about using gofundme for legal appeals in matters like this. I found it disturbing because its normally used for those in terrible personal circumstances - eg a person who has lost everything in a fire.
A young person with a terminal illness who wants a trip to Disneyland before they die etc

I'm pretty sure Christians would be upset with an employee of a school who said - behead Christian school kids - got the sack for it - then ran a gofundme campaign to launch an appeal - you'd be even more upset when a flood of donations occurred from fellow moslems.

I know christians here don't agree with my view. But I'm doing my best to show you another side to things.

That's apples and oranges though. The Muslim in your example is advocating violence upon the unbeliever. I have not seen a post by Israel Folau advocating violence against an unbeliever. A Muslim who simply said they are going to Hell would be comparable.

As for GoFundMe, it had been used before to raise support for people who were facing an intense amount of hate, and were undergoing financial loss because of it. It wasn't just financial, it was social and couldn't be ignored. Perhaps that precedent had been suggested to Folau as a motivation to open it. But if he had the money, it's a bad look. Perhaps a change.org petition would have been a better idea. Sillier ideas have made news there.

Kate30 · Jun 26, 2019

Your game or a employer has nothing to do with peoples religious freedom or religious veiws or political thought outside of work. The very reason why rugby Australia finds itself in court today. You may not like what a person says. But maybe you should start thinking more deeply about what is more denigrating to God than just your rugby game. Rugby won’t get you to heaven you know. And it certainly won’t be dictating to what I say and believe. As to what the boss is doing behind closed doors. Zoii It still doesn’t change what the bible says. All who are not redeemed shall face the judgment of God one day for the wages of sin is death. Are you going to put the bible on trial as well? Simply because the football demands. As to plastering things on the website atheists do plaster things on social media all the time along with everyone else who post what they believe . Should they be shuffled off to the office and dismissed from their job. Certainly not. But yet you demand those of the Christian Faith be dismissed from their jobs for doing so. Zoii government legislation does change all the time. I prefer the one where we have freedom of speech. But there will come a day when one must choose. Either you accept the laws of man or what God says. Jesus said. I am the way the truth and the life. Job or no job No apologies and no regrets.

Occams Barber · Jun 26, 2019

creslaw said:
Israel Folau is still opposed to discrimination against homosexuals. His recent comments expressed what his church believes about homosexuality and other sins, including the words "Jesus Christ loves you and is giving you time to turn away from your sins".

Folau has never actively discriminated against homosexuals, or suggested others should do so, and the magazine cover shows, he is actually supportive of them but believes same sex activity is sinful as the Bible teaches ... in the same way I believe my son living with a woman is contrary to Scripture (sin) but I enjoy spending time with him and his partner.

In the 2017 same sex marriage debate & vote held in Australia Folau stated: "I love and respect all people for who they are and their opinions. but personally, I will not support gay marriage."

Ohhh please - being on the magazine cover screams active support of homosexuality within rugby.

Compare this to:

WARNING
Drunks
Homosexuals
Adulterers
Liars
Fornicators
Thieves
Atheists
Idolaters
HELL AWAITS YOU
REPENT
ONLY JESUS SAVES

Your post has so much spin I got dizzy just reading it.
OB

creslaw · Jun 26, 2019

Occams Barber said:
Ohhh please - being on the magazine cover screams active support of homosexuality within rugby.

Compare this to:

WARNING
Drunks
Homosexuals
Adulterers
Liars
Fornicators
Thieves
Atheists
Idolaters
HELL AWAITS YOU
REPENT
ONLY JESUS SAVES

Your post has so much spin I got dizzy just reading it.
OB

I am glad my son and his partner can understand "Love the sinner, hate the sin" ... just sorry you can't.

Christians funding an appeal of a christian dismissed. Is it ethical or outrageously immoral

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