Mexico deploys 15,000 troops to U.S border

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Radagast

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Nope; not a crime unless the law is changed

Actually, illegal entry into the US is indeed a crime, under the
Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952 (most recently amended in 2011):

Any alien who
1. enters or attempts to enter the United States at any time or place other than as designated by immigration officers, or
2. eludes examination or inspection by immigration officers, or
3. attempts to enter or obtains entry to the United States by a willfully false or misleading representation or the willful concealment of a material fact, shall, for the first commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18 or imprisoned not more than 6 months, or both, and, for a subsequent commission of any such offense, be fined under title 18, or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both.
 
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DanishLutheran

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But all Americans should know that they are living in a stolen house

By that logic, so are you. You DO know that the Slavs are not native to the area known now as the "Czech Republic", right?
 
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DanishLutheran

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Another thing: When the pilgrims arrived, there were no immigration laws, because there was no centralized government to enact those laws, no nation which that government governered, etc.
There were many small nations and tribes, but no one who had jurisdiction of the entirety of the US, and there were, as I said, no immigration laws. Ergo, there was no illegal immigration.
 
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dms1972

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So when we are talking about legality are we saying Mexico doesn't view it as a crime, but just an administrative breach, or is that both North America and Mexico, that see it as that if you see what I mean? If Mexico don't see it as a crime, but the US does (which point would be great to have clarity on?) then seems better for them to secure their side of the border and refer the people trying to cross back to the proper channels.
 
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DanishLutheran

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So you figure if too many immigrants come you lose and it is not your land anymore ?

You better not be living in Skåne, Halland, Blekinge, Jämtland, Härjedalen or Bohuslen ^_^
 
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paul1149

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There's no crime here....just scared white American racists.
Ringo
It's getting that one doesn't feel the day is complete unless he's been called a racist.
 
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KWCrazy

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They are not illegals.
Uhh... yes they are.
Their ancestors roamed the whole American continent freely.
That's a lie. If their ancestors were here and they were born here they are Americans. There was no relocation of anyone to Mexico at any time in our History. Even the Indians we didn't kill were relocated in America.
The original crime is when the Europeans took American lands by force.
All land is claimed by force. Borders are drawn by the victors.
The land you guard is stolen.
So you say. Who owned it before? Where did we get it from? The land was here before us and will remain when we're gone. The Mexican government claimed ownership of the southeast US and lost it in war. Know you anything about borders? Nations? Basic history? Who drew the boundaries in Europe and the Middle East? Why did we have to purchase Louisiana from Napoleon? Was Louisiana part of France?
It's absurd to say, it's illegal to cross into stolen lands :/
It's sophomoric ignorance to pretend that nations don't have the right to their own borders.
 
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KWCrazy

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But all Americans should know that they are living in a stolen house and be more humble towards "illegal" immigrants of today instead of talking about them like about some dirt.
More foolishness.
Stolen from whom? How had they established ownership? The "Native Americans" were also immigrants and were mostly nomadic tribes who never claimed specific borders; only the land they were on at the time.
How does that give someone born in Juarez the right to sneak across our border and demand the same rights as American citizens?
 
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KWCrazy

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Another thing: When the pilgrims arrived, there were no immigration laws, because there was no centralized government to enact those laws, no nation which that government governered, etc.
There were many small nations and tribes, but no one who had jurisdiction of the entirety of the US, and there were, as I said, no immigration laws. Ergo, there was no illegal immigration.

Exactly. Nobody lay claim to the US because there was no US; only various areas claimed by people who put down stakes and said "This area is mine." When the first native Americans walked onto this continent they did not buy it. They simply claimed it. Countries have boundaries and a centralized government. There was no country here before the US. There were nations who lay claim to sections but none of them ever had a bill of sale. They owned what they could defend. Today we own what we defend. International law is a construct of those who draw borders. Our borders are drawn and established.

If you come here without permission you are an illegal alien.
If you say nobody needs permission to come here you are a liar.
 
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Fantine

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The crime is people entering the country illegal. It is not racist to want illegal immigration to stop. If we don’t enforce our immigration laws, we are no longer a distinct country but a region with no borders.

Do you want Central American immigrants to stop committing the "crime?" of crossing our border?

Ever notice that not as many Mexicans are crossing our border? The reason is NAFTA. Mexicans' standard of living, while not as high as Americans', is not so low as to drive them to move to a hostile, aggressive country led by a would-be dictator surrounded by some conservatives who shout "Go away criminals!"

So here's the problem. We also have CAFTA (Central American Free Trade Agreement). The president wants to end these treaties, which would result in starvation for Central Americans---which drive them northward.

The president does nothing to stop climate change, and climate change has caused droughts and famines further south--which drive immigrants northward.

The president retaliates by decreasing starving nations' foreign aid (after rendering the preceding 1-2 punch) which drives immigrants northward.

So it's simple. You want immigration to stop? Be willing to support these humanistic policies to help people where they live.
 
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Bumble Bee

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Its interesting that the children of invaders who came as poor as beggars or/and run from persecution or justice in Europe, want to make the same thing "illegal" and "crime" for others, because they are afraid they will loose what their fore-fathers have stolen.

The right of the stronger, it seems.

Let the native indians decide whom they want in their land.

This logic is flawed. There was no United States then, for one. No country means no immigration laws. For another, that was centuries ago. Different time and different people. By your logic, anyone should be able to roam into any country for any reason because all land has been “stolen” at one point or another.

I am not against immigration. What I am against is people who are here illegally being given a free pass. Immigration should not be illegal and it isn’t. What is illegal is coming in without following the proper process.
 
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Bumble Bee

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Do you want Central American immigrants to stop committing the "crime?" of crossing our border?

Ever notice that not as many Mexicans are crossing our border? The reason is NAFTA. Mexicans' standard of living, while not as high as Americans', is not so low as to drive them to move to a hostile, aggressive country led by a would-be dictator surrounded by some conservatives who shout "Go away criminals!"

So here's the problem. We also have CAFTA (Central American Free Trade Agreement). The president wants to end these treaties, which would result in starvation for Central Americans---which drive them northward.

The president does nothing to stop climate change, and climate change has caused droughts and famines further south--which drive immigrants northward.

The president retaliates by decreasing starving nations' foreign aid (after rendering the preceding 1-2 punch) which drives immigrants northward.

So it's simple. You want immigration to stop? Be willing to support these humanistic policies to help people where they live.

It is not our responsibility to take care of the citizens of other countries. We as Christians should help where we can of course, but to say the US needs to raise the standard of living for all the third world countries is ludicrous.
 
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KWCrazy

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So you figure if too many immigrants come you lose and it is not your land anymore ?
Exactly. If you lose your house it's not your house any more.
If you lose your car it's not your car any more.
If you lose your bicycle it's not your bicycle any more.
If you lose your wife she's not your wife any more.
See a pattern here? You don't get to keep what you lose; that's the definition of losing it.
If your ancestors never lived in the US you didn't lose your ancestral home, even if you are of the same race as others who were born in the US on lands that used to belong to Mexico.

As I recall, Mexico claimed land that the Apache claimed first.
 
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Jonathan Walkerin

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If you lose your house it's not your house any more.
If you lose your car it's not your car any more.
If you lose your bicycle it's not your bicycle any more.
If you lose your wife she's not your wife any more.

Your country is not your possession though. Mainly it is the idea you live with. Things change, your country changes, world changes, probably your wife changes.

You can gripe against it or adapt. Which do you think is the wiser course ?
 
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Fantine

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It is not our responsibility to take care of the citizens of other countries. We as Christians should help where we can of course, but to say the US needs to raise the standard of living for all the third world countries is ludicrous.
The reason for NAFTA and CAFTA wasn't charitable. It was to create markets for our own goods and services as well. Starving people don't buy cell phones. Computers. Automobiles.

The perfect blend is trade agreements which have certain protections (i.e. regulations). Both nations must agree to environmental standards. Both must agree not to violate the other nation's copyright or patent laws (this is especially rampant in China). Both must agree not to use child labor or to exploit workers.

What does ending trade agreements do for us? We get higher prices. Our farmers are going bankrupt. And a 'few' factories might be moving back, equipped with lots of robots taking the jobs formerly done by Americans.
 
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KWCrazy

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You can gripe against it or adapt. Which do you think is the wiser course ?
Enforce our borders and control immigration so we don't lose our country. We already have the enemy elected to Congress. How long before we start seeing Sharia courts in the US? We have Americans of Hispanic dissent being detained as possible illegal aliens because with the swarm of illegals we can't tell who is whom.
 
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Bumble Bee

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Enforce our borders and control immigration so we don't lose our country. We already have the enemy elected to Congress. How long before we start seeing Sharia courts in the US? We have Americans of Hispanic dissent being detained as possible illegal aliens because with the swarm of illegals we can't tell who is whom.
All the legal immigrants have to do is produce their documentation.
 
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Shiloh Raven

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They are not illegals.

Their ancestors roamed the whole American continent freely. The original crime is when the Europeans took American lands by force.

The land you guard is stolen. It's absurd to say, it's illegal to cross into stolen lands :/

Its interesting that the children of invaders who came as poor as beggars or/and run from persecution or justice in Europe, want to make the same thing "illegal" and "crime" for others, because they are afraid they will loose what their fore-fathers have stolen.

The right of the stronger, it seems.

Let the native indians decide whom they want in their land.

It's a regular occurrence in many NDN circles to laugh at the descendants of Europeans whining and complaining about Mexican immigrants and their descendants coming into this country. It's also very common to use the old descriptions of the European invaders, such as calling them a horde of locusts. The European invaders are called that because locusts devour and destroy everything within its path. I can't say whatelse they are called because the other references are nasty and these references would be considered goading. In any case, the complainers are the center of many jokes in NDN circles.
 
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KWCrazy

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All the legal immigrants have to do is produce their documentation.
Why are they being asked? Chinese Americans aren't questioned because we don't have hordes of Chinese swarming our borders. All these illegals flood the work force and drive down unskilled labor rates to the detriment of minorities and poor Caucasians who hold many of these jobs. The very core of the Democrat voter base is being negatively impacted by the rush to get illegal aliens to the voter booth. It's only out of ignorance and a corrupt press that ANY of them still support Democrats.
 
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