The church won't let me see the books

Rkj said:

My church, a pentacostal church affiliated to Hillsong, won't let me examine the books.

Thoughts?

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Your pretty much out of luck on this one. Churches are protected for some reason. They are a 501c3 however because they are a church they are exempt from filing a 990 like the rest of the 501c3 organizations. There is no accountability.

Annual Exempt Organization Return Who Must File | Internal Revenue Service

Rkb is in the U.K. so UK law applies.

Rkj said:

My church, a pentacostal church affiliated to Hillsong, won't let me examine the books.

Thoughts?

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My guess is that private information that are stored in those "books" cannot legally be shared, even though the church is open to the public. I'm assuming you are not a staff member or someone who doesn't do "bookkeeping".

Rkj said:

My church, a pentacostal church affiliated to Hillsong, won't let me examine the books.

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

Not okay but all too common now-a-days

Since I am on the out side.. if I was going to that Church.. I would NOT expect them to let me see the books.. nor in any Church. They have people for that..

Again on the out side here. Now If I am giving for years.. want to see.. I might press harder to see.. but.. was it written or told that ANYONE could see the books anytime they wanted? Would seeing those books show OTHER peoples information? What RIGHT would anyone have to see other peoples info? I wouldnt want others to see mine.. why? I just wouldnt

I wouldn’t give to a Church who’s financial and other church affairs weren’t available to it’s members.

I was su

Rkj said:

My church, a pentacostal church affiliated to Hillsong, won't let me examine the books.

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

I was donating to an American branch of a European based Christian missionary group. The leader of the group was ousted after he was accused of inappropriate physical contact with a female coworker. I noticed the content of their newsletters became corrupted in the following months and years. It became so bad, I went to check their financial statements and found the last financial statement they filed on their website was for the year their leader was ousted. I prayed to be led to support a different organization.

Ties to hillsong tells you all you should need to know.

Are the leaders driving around in expensive cars? Have their own private jet!

At the very least, they should give the church a yearly breakdown of the finances.

God bless you

Large, historical churches have books of polity and order which probably address this issue. Rather dull reading, but they prevent enormous problems regarding finances, jobs, pastor transition etc. If Hillsong has a "book of order" I'm sure you could consult it. If not, it is a huge red flag. Many would go so far as to say that lack of a good charter, constitution, book of order or similar document could be a sign that church leaders might include a few "baddies" looking to made a killing in terms of power, influence, record contracts, TV rights...you name it.

I won't donate to a religious organization unless the U.S. Charity Navigator service has a full workup on it. This is how I found out that the head of a large Christian skid row mission has a comp package of well over $200,000. I served at this mission dozens of times for free. This is a wonderful, talented person. His pay is probably a small percentage of the funds he brings into the mission. However this story does illustrate the power of a "friendly", stacked board of directors. In the U.S there is a similar watchdog called EFCA, but it is run by Christians guarding the henhouse. Tragically, in the "Word of Faith" ("MONEY") and similar rackets, we see how certain Christian "ministries" are run by scamsters and commit horrendous acts.

I would not give to a church that doesn't reveal its finances, including the salaries of the workers. If they want to keep their financial information private, they don't need my offerings. If I attended a church like this, I'd find other causes for my offerings.

Here's a study for what can tend to happen if sinners (that's all of us) have unaccountable access to a lot of money:
James MacDonald Took Millions from Harvest & Now Demands Broadcast Ministry | Julie Roys
Former Harvest Employees Say James MacDonald Lived Large on Church’s Dime | Julie Roys
Longtime Harvest Elder Steve Huston Resigns; Harvest Pastor Admits "Ungodly" Spending | Julie Roys
The Elephant's Debt

I wouldn't financially support an elder led congregation that does not give me a vote on financial matters or allow me to see detailed financials, including the pastor's salary and expense account.

I would give to a church without care of how the finances is distributed or what car the pastors drive......unless I knew that bills weren't being paid...e.g. heat gets shut off.....or they are in danger of closing when I feel they shouldn't be. Else I'd feel I was giving for the wrong reasons.

If I give for any biblical reasons/benefit, it should matter not what those who takes the money, meant for good, and use it for evil.....for there is one who sees all and knows the heart....who will hold all accountable for, even, every idle word spoken.

My ELCA church has an independent audit every January, and the results of that audit are made available to the congregation. The financial secretary's monthly reports are published in the monthly bulletin. I would not belong to a church that does not make its financial records available to the members.

My advice would not be be for you to walk away from this church, it would be for you to run away.

May I suggest that you ask why there is not a financial report to the church members at least once a year.

Such a report does not have to list individual saleries but should show total staff cost, building costs major purchases etc as well as income from donations, reclaim taxes, inheritences etc.
In short the church leaders should say we had x amount of income and spent it in these ways.
Be polite in how you ask. See if other members are also concerned and will support your request.

Check out companies house for your church if it is a limited company they will have to submit accounts ditto with the charity commission.

If every thing comes up blank leave.

Mmmm...Bethel. Perhaps you should run and not walk to a nice Baptist, Presbyterian church.

I attend a Vineyard Church and they give an annual report, they are also audited by an independent group every year to prove they are on the up and up. Are you saying your church gives no kind of accountability as far as finances go?

Rkj said:

There isn't one.

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Something's wrong. I can see why you're asking about this. It's time to ask God where he wants you to go to church.

Rkj said:

Update: I sent an email to the board of directors about my concerns, and received a passive aggressive response back accusing ME of a "wilful manipulation of the truth".

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Run away, run away!