LDS Is faith a DIY achievement?

He is the way · Jun 23, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
So you're saying you have to earn faith. Got that.

There is an old American saying “Actions speak louder than words.” Abraham showed his faith by his actions. He willingly did what God asked him to do. It was through the righteousness of faith.

Rescued One · Jun 23, 2019

"Faith alone justifies, but only the kind of faith that inevitably produces good works. Now, such good works aren’t the basis of justification; indeed, they can’t be, for one sin makes you a lawbreaker (Jas. 2:10–11). Good works can’t function as the foundation of our justification because God demands perfection, and even after we are converted we continue to sin.

"James, in fact, says this very thing in the next passage after discussing justification by works: 'We all stumble in many ways' (3:2). The word 'stumble' means 'sin,' as the parallel text in James 2:10 shows. Every one of us without exception—including James ('we all')—continue to sin.

"Is he saying we sin only occasionally? Absolutely not. He says we all sin 'in many ways.' We don’t just sin in a few ways, but in many. Since sin continues to characterize the lives of believers in remarkable ways, and since God demands perfection, works that justify can’t form the basis of our justification."
Do Paul and James Disagree on Justification by Faith Alone?

Rescued One · Jun 23, 2019

He is the way said:
There is an old American saying “Actions speak louder than words.” Abraham showed his faith by his actions. He willingly did what God asked him to do. It was through the righteousness of faith.

This does not address the DIY question about faith, but your obsession with promoting good works to people who are doing good works.

He is the way · Jun 23, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
This does not address the DIY question about faith, but your obsession with promoting good works to people who are doing good works.

In the sense that faith is believing in Jesus Christ and God the Father, I would say it is more of a choice than a DIY.

Rescued One · Jun 23, 2019

He is the way said:
In the sense that faith is believing in Jesus Christ and God the Father, I would say it is more of a choice than a DIY.

Faith is a gift. The word believe in John 3:16 is referring to faith:

The Greek word πιστεύω (pisteuō), translated believe in some versions of the Bible, has its roots in the Greek word πίστις (pistis), which means faith, which is derived from another word, πείθω(peithō), persuade.

The Greek word pisteuō means to believe, trust, rely upon, and its related noun is pistis (faith). In his Gospel, John never used the words repent, repentance, or faith to describe the way people are saved. Instead, he used believe since the term included all these ideas. John preferred the verb form to emphasize the act that is necessary for someone to be saved-total dependence on the work of another. John did indicate that believing can be superficial when it is merely intellectual without resulting in true salvation (John 2:23- 24; 6:66; 12:42-43; see Jas 2:19). Jesus used a wordplay when He said that people must do "the work of God" for salvation, for His point was that we must not try to work for it at all. We must simply "believe in the One He has sent" (John 6:29). Because this Gospel was written for the clear and simple purpose of persuading everyone who reads it to "believe Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and by believing you may have life in His name" (John 20:31), it is no surprise that the Gospel of John is the most frequently distributed portion of the Bible to those curious about the gospel of Jesus Christ.
The word 'believe' in John 3:15-16

Rescued One · Jun 23, 2019

He is the way said:
In the sense that faith is believing in Jesus Christ and God the Father, I would say it is more of a choice than a DIY.

Mormonism consists of man's will and man's obedience. Blessings have to be earned through man's actions.

Romans 9:16
So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.

He is the way · Jun 23, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
Faith is a gift. The word believe in John 3:16 is referring to faith:

The Greek word πιστεύω (pisteuō), translated believe in some versions of the Bible, has its roots in the Greek word πίστις (pistis), which means faith, which is derived from another word, πείθω(peithō), persuade.

The Greek word pisteuō means to believe, trust, rely upon, and its related noun is pistis (faith). In his Gospel, John never used the words repent, repentance, or faith to describe the way people are saved. Instead, he used believe since the term included all these ideas. John preferred the verb form to emphasize the act that is necessary for someone to be saved-total dependence on the work of another. John did indicate that believing can be superficial when it is merely intellectual without resulting in true salvation (John 2:23- 24; 6:66; 12:42-43; see Jas 2:19). Jesus used a wordplay when He said that people must do "the work of God" for salvation, for His point was that we must not try to work for it at all. We must simply "believe in the One He has sent" (John 6:29). Because this Gospel was written for the clear and simple purpose of persuading everyone who reads it to "believe Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and by believing you may have life in His name" (John 20:31), it is no surprise that the Gospel of John is the most frequently distributed portion of the Bible to those curious about the gospel of Jesus Christ.
The word 'believe' in John 3:15-16

So this is one of the answers given to the question "Does the word 'believe' in John 3:15-16 mean to believe in Jesus as the Son of God, or to believe in the message of Jesus:"

I think it is sad that someone would say "Jesus used a wordplay when He said that people must do "the work of God" for salvation, for His point was that we must not try to work for it at all. We must simply "believe in the One He has sent"

IOW Jesus lied He didn't really mean for us to keep the commandments. That is just wrong in so many ways. Jesus did not use wordplay. I prefer this answer:

"This is where much error has divided the Churches. So I want to give a thorough presentation so that confusion can actually end. The Answer outright can sound unbelievable, so a building of concepts is needed to be able to hold the correct interpretation.

First is to understand that Belief and Faith act as synonyms to the same concept.

John 11:40 [πιστεύσῃς], John 3:15 [πιστεύων], John 3:16 [πιστεύων], Ephesians 2:8 [πίστεως]

Next we need to understand why that teaching gives life.
We can understand faith by understanding the reason why it was needed.

For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. (1 Corinthians 15:21-22 NKJV)

Since the Cause of Death came from Adam, Understanding How will teach us about Faith.

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” (Genesis 2:16-17 NKJV)

Notice he did not say if you do evil you will die. It is If you eat the fruits then you die.

...for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” (Genesis 2:17 NKJV)

Understanding evil is very important to this concept.
I have other sources that take longer to also show evil as error, yet this explains it the simplest, and I don't have a lot of other things to convince people of.

We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. (1 John 4:6 NKJV)

It is Important to understand what the Knowledge of Good and Evil is. I have other sources that show the knowledge of Good and Evil means Function and Dysfunction, yet since I do not want to have to convince people of that source. I will attempt to do it the bible way.

Good is a Function?

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. (James 2:17 NKJV)

Error is Dysfunction, Sin is eating the fruit of it.

If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” (Genesis 4:7 NKJV)

The Fruit of Function and Dysfunction is not an actual fruit.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. (Galatians 5:22-23 NKJV)

For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. (Romans 7:5 NKJV)

So we can see two points here

The fruit is found "in our members"
The Fruits of Function and Dysfunction are eaten regularly.

Comparing the two sets of fruits

You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. (Matthew 7:16-17 NKJV)

Defining The Fruits of Function and Dysfunction

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21 NKJV)

Defining the Fruits of Faith

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. (Galatians 5:22 NKJV)

Seeing the choice through an example Dysfunction can be defined as when something is supposed to work stops working. Let us place a situation where an air conditioner breaks down in a time of need. When that person "Knows" about the dysfunction. There is "Two Reaction Paths".

Path One - The Path of Unbelief (The Natural Path)
When seeing that the air Conditioner is broken the man exclaims, "I can't believe that the Air Conditioner is Broken!" Then follows through with an Outbursts of Wrath which is defined as the Fruits of the Flesh, or as the Fruits of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Path Two - The Path of Faith (The Path of Jesus)
When seeing that the air Conditioner is broken the man trusts in the word and prays "Can we get a new Air Conditioner?" and much Love, Peace, and Joy are created.

To the Questioner's Answer! Does the word 'believe' in John 3:15-16 mean to believe in Jesus as the Son of God, or to believe in the message of Jesus
The Answer goes like this, Once you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, then you can learn about his message, and then you can apply what he taught. So the word 'believe' in John 3:15-16 is used in the application of what the Son of God Taught........."

From: The word 'believe' in John 3:15-16

Rescued One · Jun 24, 2019

He is the way said:
So this is one of the answers given to the question "Does the word 'believe' in John 3:15-16 mean to believe in Jesus as the Son of God, or to believe in the message of Jesus:"

I think it is sad that someone would say "Jesus used a wordplay when He said that people must do "the work of God" for salvation, for His point was that we must not try to work for it at all. We must simply "believe in the One He has sent"

That is not what the quote says. You insist on taking it out of context just so you can criticize the non-Mormon's clear teaching. We cannot work for eternal life because it is a gift of God. People sometimes work for wages or rewards; they don't work for gifts!

Do you expect your loved ones to earn their gifts? Then it is no longer a gift!

Romans 6
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 11
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

He is the way said:
IOW Jesus lied He didn't really mean for us to keep the commandments. That is just wrong in so many ways.

The Bible may hurt unbelievers with the truth but it is always true.

He is the way said:
Jesus did not use wordplay. I prefer this answer:

"This is where much error has divided the Churches. So I want to give a thorough presentation so that confusion can actually end. The Answer outright can sound unbelievable, so a building of concepts is needed to be able to hold the correct interpretation.

First is to understand that Belief and Faith act as synonyms to the same concept.

John 11:40 [πιστεύσῃς], John 3:15 [πιστεύων], John 3:16 [πιστεύων], Ephesians 2:8 [πίστεως]

Next we need to understand why that teaching gives life.
We can understand faith by understanding the reason why it was needed.

For since by man came death, by Man also came the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. (1 Corinthians 15:21-22 NKJV)

Since the Cause of Death came from Adam, Understanding How will teach us about Faith.

And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” (Genesis 2:16-17 NKJV)

Notice he did not say if you do evil you will die. It is If you eat the fruits then you die.

...for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.” (Genesis 2:17 NKJV)

Understanding evil is very important to this concept.
I have other sources that take longer to also show evil as error, yet this explains it the simplest, and I don't have a lot of other things to convince people of.

We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. (1 John 4:6 NKJV)

It is Important to understand what the Knowledge of Good and Evil is. I have other sources that show the knowledge of Good and Evil means Function and Dysfunction, yet since I do not want to have to convince people of that source. I will attempt to do it the bible way.

Good is a Function?

Thus also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead. (James 2:17 NKJV)

Error is Dysfunction, Sin is eating the fruit of it.

If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.” (Genesis 4:7 NKJV)

The Fruit of Function and Dysfunction is not an actual fruit.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. (Galatians 5:22-23 NKJV)

For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. (Romans 7:5 NKJV)

So we can see two points here

The fruit is found "in our members"

The Fruits of Function and Dysfunction are eaten regularly.

Comparing the two sets of fruits

You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. (Matthew 7:16-17 NKJV)

Defining The Fruits of Function and Dysfunction

Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, 20 idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies, 21 envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5:19-21 NKJV)

Defining the Fruits of Faith

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law. (Galatians 5:22 NKJV)

Seeing the choice through an example Dysfunction can be defined as when something is supposed to work stops working. Let us place a situation where an air conditioner breaks down in a time of need. When that person "Knows" about the dysfunction. There is "Two Reaction Paths".

Path One - The Path of Unbelief (The Natural Path)
When seeing that the air Conditioner is broken the man exclaims, "I can't believe that the Air Conditioner is Broken!" Then follows through with an Outbursts of Wrath which is defined as the Fruits of the Flesh, or as the Fruits of the Knowledge of Good and Evil.

Path Two - The Path of Faith (The Path of Jesus)
When seeing that the air Conditioner is broken the man trusts in the word and prays "Can we get a new Air Conditioner?" and much Love, Peace, and Joy are created.

To the Questioner's Answer! Does the word 'believe' in John 3:15-16 mean to believe in Jesus as the Son of God, or to believe in the message of Jesus
The Answer goes like this, Once you believe that Jesus is the Son of God, then you can learn about his message, and then you can apply what he taught. So the word 'believe' in John 3:15-16 is used in the application of what the Son of God Taught........."

From: The word 'believe' in John 3:15-16

By this you can see that the Laws of the Flesh are also of the Laws of the Circumcision. For to truly circumcise the flesh we trust in the "Word" instead of our own Bodies. Therefore by no longer trusting in our bodies to fulfill the law, we are proved righteous through "Graceful Response" upon "Knowledge of the Dysfunctional Situation".

Those who are in the flesh (everyone who does not have the Holy Spirit), don't believe on Him. We have to realize our hopeless situation. The Law shows us our guilt. God uses awareness of that guilt and the the gift of faith to bring us to Christ.

John 3
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You can't come to faith by working. It's a GIFT that produces good works.

Ephesians 2 (written to Christians)
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(not "will quicken some day") 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

He is the way · Jun 25, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
That is not what the quote says. You insist on taking it out of context just so you can criticize the non-Mormon's clear teaching. We cannot work for eternal life because it is a gift of God. People sometimes work for wages or rewards; they don't work for gifts!View attachment 258637
Do you expect your loved ones to earn their gifts? Then it is no longer a gift!

Romans 6
20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. 23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

Romans 11
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

The Bible may hurt unbelievers with the truth but it is always true.

By this you can see that the Laws of the Flesh are also of the Laws of the Circumcision. For to truly circumcise the flesh we trust in the "Word" instead of our own Bodies. Therefore by no longer trusting in our bodies to fulfill the law, we are proved righteous through "Graceful Response" upon "Knowledge of the Dysfunctional Situation".

Those who are in the flesh (everyone who does not have the Holy Spirit), don't believe on Him. We have to realize our hopeless situation. The Law shows us our guilt. God uses awareness of that guilt and the the gift of faith to bring us to Christ.

John 3
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

You can't come to faith by working. It's a GIFT that produces good works.

Ephesians 2 (written to Christians)
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(not "will quicken some day") 2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. 4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

And as I have stated many times we are not saved by works, neither are we saved without works. Were the goats or the sheep saved? Why weren't the goats saved?

(New Testament | Matthew 25:33 - 46)

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Those who believe in Christ will believe and do as He says:

(New Testament | 1 John 2:29)

29 If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.

Rescued One · Jun 25, 2019

We are not sheep because we did that which was our duty! We do what we should because were are sheep!

Mormons are so self-righteous that they want credit for their works!

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them--yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me.

John 3:30
He must increase, but I must decrease.

Peter1000 · Jun 25, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
The faith is nourished by God. It doesn't depend on us.

Luke 17
5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.

They knew the source of their faith wasn’t from themselves. And God's gifts, contrary to Mormonism, don't wither away. We have the Holy Spirit Who abides with us forever. Furthermore, good works are the result of the faith we've been given.

James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

1 Corinthians 1:9
God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Thessalonians 3:3
But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.

I trust my God and His word.[/QUOTE]

Phoebe Ann said:
The faith is nourished by God. It doesn't depend on us.

This can not all be on God. Faith has to be shown by the recipient and then God will nourish that faith and it will grow more and more each day, but it takes 2 to make that faith grow.

If only God is involved in your faith, then you are nothing more than just a puppet. We are not puppets of God, we are his children.

If you are a puppet, and you make a mistake, then you are saying that God made you make that mistake? That cannot be the case, God will not make you sin.

If you are a child, you can make mistakes, but repent and grow stronger from your experience. Then God will be with you again and nourish your faith and help to keep you from backsliding.

No, you are not a puppet of God. You are His child.

Peter1000 · Jun 25, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
Someone can lie and claim to have faith; that doesn't mean he told the truth.

By their fruits ye shall know them. No faith results in no fruit that endures. God is perfectly aware of who He is saving; He makes that fruit endure.

2 Thessalonians 3:3
But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.

You make it sound again like we are puppets when you say, God knows who He is saving. Does God also know who He is not saving?

He is the way · Jun 25, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
We are not sheep because we did that which was our duty! We do what we should because were are sheep!

Mormons are so self-righteous that they want credit for their works!

1 Corinthians 15:10
But by the grace of God I am what I am, and his grace to me was not without effect. No, I worked harder than all of them--yet not I, but the grace of God that was with me.

John 3:30
He must increase, but I must decrease.

It is not wrong to glorify God with works, in fact that is what we are told to do. We are not glorifying ourselves, we glorify God with our fruits. Doing good and being kind to others has a ripple effect. Even a smile helps others have a good day.

Rescued One · Jun 25, 2019

Luke 17
5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.

They knew the source of their faith wasn’t from themselves. And God's gifts, contrary to Mormonism, don't wither away. We have the Holy Spirit Who abides with us forever. Furthermore, good works are the result of the faith we've been given.

James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

1 Corinthians 1:9
God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Thessalonians 3:3
But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.

I trust my God and His word.

Peter1000 said:
This can not all be on God. Faith has to be shown by the recipient and then God will nourish that faith and it will grow more and more each day, but it takes 2 to make that faith grow.

If only God is involved in your faith, then you are nothing more than just a puppet. We are not puppets of God, we are his children.

You are stuck in a rut. I have never claimed to be a puppet. If I give my children gifts, it doesn't make them puppets. If I am a slave to Satan and God sets me free and gives me new life in Christ, I am free from the hold Satan had on me.

Peter1000 said:
If you are a puppet, and you make a mistake, then you are saying that God made you make that mistake? That cannot be the case, God will not make you sin.

God NEVER made me sin.

Peter1000 said:
If you are a child, you can make mistakes, but repent and grow stronger from your experience. Then God will be with you again and nourish your faith and help to keep you from backsliding.

God has NEVER abandoned me. He set me free from Joseph Smith and has been teaching me His will day after day.

Peter1000 said:
No, you are not a puppet of God. You are His child.

Thank you. :doh:

I already know who I am to God! He adopted me!

Psalm 29 :bow:

1 Give unto the LORD, O ye mighty, unto the LORD glory and strength.
2 Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name; worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness.

He is the way · Jun 25, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
Luke 17
5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.

They knew the source of their faith wasn’t from themselves. And God's gifts, contrary to Mormonism, don't wither away. We have the Holy Spirit Who abides with us forever. Furthermore, good works are the result of the faith we've been given.

James 1:17
Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

John 14
16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

1 Corinthians 1:9
God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

2 Thessalonians 3:3
But the Lord is faithful. He will establish you and guard you against the evil one.

I trust my God and His word.

You are stuck in a rut. I have never claimed to be a puppet. If I give my children gifts, it doesn't make them puppets. If I am a slave to Satan and God sets me free and gives me new life in Christ, I am free from the hold Satan had on me.

God NEVER made me sin.

God has NEVER abandoned me. He set me free from Joseph Smith and has been teaching me His will day after day.

Thank you. I already know who I am to God! He adopted me!

Psalm 29
1 Give unto the LORD, O ye mighty, unto the LORD glory and strength.
2 Give unto the LORD the glory due unto his name; worship the LORD in the beauty of holiness.

You quote Luke 17
5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.

this is His response:

(New Testament | Luke 17:6 - 10)

6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
7 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Were they able to move the tree?

Rescued One · Jun 26, 2019

He is the way said:
You quote Luke 17
5 And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.

this is His response:

(New Testament | Luke 17:6 - 10)

6 And the Lord said, If ye had faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye might say unto this sycamine tree, Be thou plucked up by the root, and be thou planted in the sea; and it should obey you.
7 But which of you, having a servant plowing or feeding cattle, will say unto him by and by, when he is come from the field, Go and sit down to meat?
8 And will not rather say unto him, Make ready wherewith I may sup, and gird thyself, and serve me, till I have eaten and drunken; and afterward thou shalt eat and drink?
9 Doth he thank that servant because he did the things that were commanded him? I trow not.
10 So likewise ye, when ye shall have done all those things which are commanded you, say, We are unprofitable servants: we have done that which was our duty to do.

Were they able to move the tree?

Are you able to move it by your faith or do you have to transport it to a pier and push it in?

Rescued One · Jun 26, 2019

He is the way said:
It is not wrong to glorify God with works, in fact that is what we are told to do. We are not glorifying ourselves, we glorify God with our fruits. Doing good and being kind to others has a ripple effect. Even a smile helps others have a good day.

You are glorifying yourselves. I say that because you want blessings and teach that the only way to get them is through obedience to laws.

He is the way · Jun 26, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
Are you able to move it by your faith or do you have to transport it to a pier and push it in?

But you are asking a personal question. Peter had the faith to walk on water but began to doubt and started to sink. Jesus had to come to his rescue. Jesus said oh ye of little faith. This was not a compliment. Did God forget to give them faith? Why did Jesus compliment the Roman centurion? Was it because God had given him the faith?:

(New Testament | Luke 7:6 - 9)

6 Then Jesus went with them. And when he was now not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying unto him, Lord, trouble not thyself: for I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter under my roof:
7 Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto thee: but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed.
8 For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
9 When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

He is the way · Jun 26, 2019

Phoebe Ann said:
You are glorifying yourselves. I say that because you want blessings and teach that the only way to get them is through obedience to laws.

Obedience is the key:

(Old Testament | Genesis 22:18)

18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

(Old Testament | Genesis 26:4 - 5)

4 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed;
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.

(Old Testament | Exodus 23:20 - 22)

20 ¶ Behold, I send an Angel before thee, to keep thee in the way, and to bring thee into the place which I have prepared.
21 Beware of him, and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my name is in him.
22 But if thou shalt indeed obey his voice, and do all that I speak; then I will be an enemy unto thine enemies, and an adversary unto thine adversaries.

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 11:27 - 28)

27 A blessing, if ye obey the commandments of the LORD your God, which I command you this day:
28 And a curse, if ye will not obey the commandments of the LORD your God, but turn aside out of the way which I command you this day, to go after other gods, which ye have not known.

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 13:4)

4 Ye shall walk after the LORD your God, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.

I will skip many of the Old Testament verses here and go to the New Testament:

(New Testament | Acts 5:32)

32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.

(New Testament | Acts 6:7)

7 And the word of God increased; and the number of the disciples multiplied in Jerusalem greatly; and a great company of the priests were obedient to the faith.

(New Testament | Romans 2:6 - 11)

6 Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
8 But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
9 Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
10 But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
11 For there is no respect of persons with God.

(New Testament | Romans 6:16)

16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

There are many more scriptures that show the blessings of obedience and the cursings of disobedience.

Rescued One · Jun 26, 2019

He is the way said:
But you are asking a personal question.

I didn't desire an answer --- it was supposed to get you thinking. Jesus didn't tell them they had no faith.

He is the way said:
Peter had the faith to walk on water but began to doubt and started to sink. Jesus had to come to his rescue. Jesus said oh ye of little faith. This was not a compliment. Did God forget to give them faith? Why did Jesus compliment the Roman centurion? Was it because God had given him the faith?:

Yes, without the gift of faith people are servants of Satan:

Colossians 1:13-14
For he has rescued us from the dominion of darkness and brought us into the kingdom of the Son he loves.

Acts 26
“ ‘I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,’ the Lord replied. 16 ‘Now get up and stand on your feet. I have appeared to you to appoint you as a servant and as a witness of what you have seen and will see of me. 17 I will rescue you from your own people and from the Gentiles. I am sending you to them 18 to open their eyes and turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’

He is the way said:
(New Testament | Luke 7:6 - 9)

6 Then Jesus went with them. And when he was now not far from the house, the centurion sent friends to him, saying unto him, Lord, trouble not thyself: for I am not worthy that thou shouldest enter under my roof:
7 Wherefore neither thought I myself worthy to come unto thee: but say in a word, and my servant shall be healed.
8 For I also am a man set under authority, having under me soldiers, and I say unto one, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it.
9 When Jesus heard these things, he marvelled at him, and turned him about, and said unto the people that followed him, I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.

Praise God!

LDS Is faith a DIY achievement?

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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Well-Known Member

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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