LDS Damnation for Refusal to Become Mormon

Peter1000 said:

So if all believers are priests, how can you challenge the idea that there are no more priests?

Click to expand...

ALL are priests and kings! Not a SELECT FEW!

Peter1000 said:

Interesting. Is Yom and beyom Hebrew?

Click to expand...

Yes----
5 and~he~will~CALL.OUT(V) (וַיִּקְרָא / wai'yiq'ra) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) to~LIGHT (לָאוֹר / la'or) DAY (יוֹם / yom) and~to~DARKNESS (וְלַחֹשֶׁךְ / wê'la'hho'shekh) he~did~CALL.OUT(V) (קָרָא / qa'ra) NIGHT (לָיְלָה / lai'lah) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) EVENING (עֶרֶב / e'rev) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) MORNING (בֹקֶר / vo'qer) DAY (יוֹם / yom) UNIT (אֶחָד / e'hhad)

RMT: and Elohiym called out to the light, day, and to the darkness he called out, night, and evening existed and morning existed, a day unit,

17 and~from~TREE (וּמֵעֵץ / u'mey'eyts) the~DISCERNMENT (הַדַּעַת / ha'da'at) FUNCTIONAL (טוֹב / tov) and~DYSFUNCTIONAL (וָרָע / wa'ra) NOT (לֹא / lo) you(ms)~will~EAT(V) (תֹאכַל / to'khal) FROM~him (מִמֶּנּוּ / mi'me'nu) GIVEN.THAT (כִּי / ki) in~DAY (בְּיוֹם / bê'yom) you(ms)~>~EAT(V) (אֲכָלְךָ / a'khal'kha) FROM~him (מִמֶּנּוּ / mi'me'nu) >~DIE(V) (מוֹת / mot) you(ms)~will~DIE(V) (תָּמוּת / ta'mut)

RMT: but from the tree of discernment of function and dysfunction you will not eat from him, given that in the day you eat from him you will surely die,


Sorry---off topic!!

Peter1000 said:

Again, you overreact. The questions were asked, but the answer was not given. So to say that Job didn't know didly-squat and wasn't there and didn't do any of it is way overreaching your actual knowledge of the event.

Where was Job when the morning starts sand together and the Sons of God shouted for joy?

Can you answer where Job was from the scripture, no! It is a 50/50 deal that he wasn't there, or he was there, so stop with your authoritative announcement that he knew didly-squat.

Could he have been one of the morning stars? Of course he could.

Could he have been on of the Sons of God shouting for joy? Of course he could.

Click to expand...

If I overreact---So did God---He is the one that said it and He is the one asking the questions!! God Hi8mself said Job spoke without knowledge--not without memory!! When God breathed into Adam e BECAME A LIVNG SOUL-- He was not living before that breath---

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

It is that breath of life from God that has brought life to all born into this world. No---it is not a 50/50 chance---we never existed before being born! You believe your prophets---I believe what the scriptures say.
You have taken one line totally out of context to the whole passage and made a doctrine out of it that is not in any way substantiated by anything else in the bible.
So, NO! He could not have been one of the sons of God that shouted for joy----God himself said he had no knowledge. And there were no answers because they were rhetorical questions---the answer is an implied and obvious---NO! Job was not there---NO, Job did not do any of those things and Job had no knowledge about any of it!!

As I said?: "God does not fail to give anyone the full opportunity to return to Him. He knows us well enough to know whether we will LOVE Him enough to keep His commandments."
He also knows us enough to know if we would turn to Him if our lives were longer. Alma 34:35 defines who the people in verse 34 are, they are the wicked. They are wicked because they chose to follow their father the devil. If they do not repent and change their ways they will end up with Lazarus.

He is the way said:

Says you.

Click to expand...

No---said God!
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Phoebe Ann said:

@dzheremi
Mormonism:
However, the scriptures are not always consistent in the use of the word, especially in the Bible. For example, when Jesus purportedly said to the thief on the cross, “To day shalt thou be with me in paradise” (Luke 23:43), the Bible rendering is incorrect. The statement would more accurately read, “Today shalt thou be with me in the world of spirits” since the thief was not ready for paradise (see HC 5:424–25).

Click to expand...

What on earth are they basing this conclusion on? I don't know Greek all that well (I can read it, I can understand the declensions, etc.), but even I can read in the original the word is Παραδείσῳ Paradeiso, which they are correct probably comes through Persian/Arabic (the Arabs borrowed it from the Persians) فردوس ferdous, though being Persian I have seen some sources that trace it back ultimately to the Avestan language (the language of the Zoroastrian scriptures; the Persians were largely Zoroastrians before the coming of Islam, with minorities of Jews and Christians), where the word pairidaiza apparently means 'enclosure, park', which is the meaning the word originally had when the Greeks adopted it.

At no point in its history did it ever mean anything like "world of spirits". At the link above you can even see the Proto-Indo-European roots of which the word is composed (Persian and Avestan both being Indo-European languages, just like English is), meaning something like "walled in" ("around" + "to make, form (a wall)").

There's no possible way you can make it mean "world of spirits". This is in "Reformed Egyptian" territory of ridiculous linguistic claims. F- for the Mormons on this one. Zero stars. Unless the "HC" in the citation is some book that changes the history of Indo-European linguistics to make words mean something completely disconnected from their roots, this is just absolute nonsense. And so it is absolute nonsense.

Possibly 2 Cor. 12:4 should also not use “paradise” in the sense of meaning the spirit world, as much as meaning the celestial kingdom. The “paradisiacal glory” of A of F 1:10 refers to the glorified millennial state of the earth rather than the spirit world.
Paradise

Click to expand...

No also to this. The form used in 2 Cor. 12:4 is Παράδεισον Paradeison, which is just the accusative masculine singular (because it's ton Paradeison, in the accusative case, rather than the other verse which is to Paradeiso, in the dative case).

My goodness, this stuff is so basic...do I have to fake-join the Mormon religion to get whatever numbskull who wrote this entry fired? Will they be teaching him or her how to not make things up anymore in the spirit world? That's the lesson they apparently really need.

Don't get me wrong, I very much appreciate you sharing Mormon's sources and views with me, as always. (I hope this is not coming across like angry ranting.) I just very much do not appreciate how full of ridiculous claims those sources are. I mean, I debunked this in less than five minutes by visiting two non-sectarian (not 'anti-Mormon') websites -- one for a Greek-English interlinear text of the verses in the question, and another for the etymology of the word used in them. Why Mormons can't take less than five minutes for the sake of their faith to figure out whether or not what they're reading is a blatant lie is beyond me, but they really should. It's sad. Their leaders and their sources should not be able to get away with such manipulation.

mmksparbud said:

ALL are priests and kings! Not a SELECT FEW!

Click to expand...

Yes it is a select few:
(New Testament | Revelation 1:5 - 6)

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

And who are those He loved:

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

They are the ones who keep the commandments.

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 5:10)

10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

The number is thousands, not millions or billions.

He is the way said:

We will return back to where we were before:
(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:7)

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Click to expand...

He is the way said:

We will return back to where we were before:
(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:7)

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Click to expand...

The breath of life goes back to God who gave it--without it--we have no life

mmksparbud said:

If I overreact---So did God---He is the one that said it and He is the one asking the questions!! God Hi8mself said Job spoke without knowledge--not without memory!! When God breathed into Adam e BECAME A LIVNG SOUL-- He was not living before that breath---

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

It is that breath of life from God that has brought life to all born into this world. No---it is not a 50/50 chance---we never existed before being born! You believe your prophets---I believe what the scriptures say.
You have taken one line totally out of context to the whole passage and made a doctrine out of it that is not in any way substantiated by anything else in the bible.
So, NO! He could not have been one of the sons of God that shouted for joy----God himself said he had no knowledge. And there were no answers because they were rhetorical questions---the answer is an implied and obvious---NO! Job was not there---NO, Job did not do any of those things and Job had no knowledge about any of it!!

Click to expand...

We lived with God before we were born and will return when we die:

(Old Testament | Ecclesiastes 12:7)

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

He is the way said:

Yes it is a select few:
(New Testament | Revelation 1:5 - 6)

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

And who are those He loved:

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

They are the ones who keep the commandments.

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 5:10)

10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

The number is thousands, not millions or billions.

Click to expand...

All the saved are kings and priests---ALL!

mmksparbud said:

The breath of life goes back to God who gave it--without it--we have no life

Click to expand...

Our SPIRIT will return to God. Lazarus' spirit returned to God when he died.

mmksparbud said:

No---said God!
Gen 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

Click to expand...

So why weren't they fruitful and multiply? They didn't even know they were naked:
(Old Testament | Genesis 3:6 - 7)

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

mmksparbud said:

All the saved are kings and priests---ALL!

Click to expand...

(New Testament | Matthew 24:13)

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

He is the way said:

Our SPIRIT will return to God. Lazarus' spirit returned to God when he died.

Click to expand...

Really? Lazarus never mentioned it. If he was with God---why bring him back? I died twice---never saws anything. The breath return to God.

He is the way said:

So why weren't they fruitful and multiply? They didn't even know they were naked:
(Old Testament | Genesis 3:6 - 7)

6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

Click to expand...

Been over this many times---they would have with time--they fell first. The directive to multiply was given---they had permission. That was all that was needed. You honestly think God gives a command but doesn't allow you to fulfill it unless you sin???!!! So they didn't know they were naked. You do know what can happen fully clothed, do you not? I remember my husbands back seat of his car. What they experienced for the first time was shame. As I said countless times---Adam had not even named her yet. Do Mormons generally end up having sex with someone they do not even know the name of??

He is the way said:

(New Testament | Matthew 24:13)

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

Click to expand...

Fine--we will all be kings and priests----after the end. NO NEED FOR THEM UNTIL THEN.

mmksparbud said:

Really? Lazarus never mentioned it. If he was with God---why bring him back? I died twice---never saws anything. The breath return to God.



Been over this many times---they would have with time--they fell first. The directive to multiply was given---they had permission. That was all that was needed. You honestly think God gives a command but doesn't allow you to fulfill it unless you sin???!!! So they didn't know they were naked. You do know what can happen fully clothed, do you not? I remember my husbands back seat of his car. What they experienced for the first time was shame. As I said countless times---Adam had not even named her yet. Do Mormons generally end up having sex with someone they do not even know the name of??

Click to expand...

You may not believe that this was part of God's plan, but I do. God knows the beginning to the end. It is all part of the plan of salvation.

Phoebe Ann said:

Mormonism isn't the gospel. Joseph Smith was accursed

Click to expand...

The Book of Mormon is proof that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God.

He is the way said:

You may not believe that this was part of God's plan, but I do. God knows the beginning to the end. It is all part of the plan of salvation.

Click to expand...

The plan of salvation was in place before the fall. God in no way planned for them to fall---there is a big difference.

31 and~he~will~SEE(V) (וַיַּרְא / wai'yar) Elohiym (אֱלֹהִים / e'lo'him) AT (אֶת / et) ALL (כָּל / kol) WHICH (אֲשֶׁר / a'sher) he~did~DO(V) (עָשָׂה / a'sah) and~LOOK (וְהִנֵּה / wê'hin'neyh) FUNCTIONAL (טוֹב / tov) MANY (מְאֹד / mê'od) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) EVENING (עֶרֶב / e'rev) and~he~will~EXIST(V) (וַיְהִי / wai'hi) MORNING (בֹקֶר / vo'qer) DAY (יוֹם / yom) the~SIXTH (הַשִּׁשִּׁי / ha'shi'shi)

RMT: and Elohiym saw all which he made, and look, it is very functional, and evening existed and morning existed, a sixth day,[12]

Gen 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.


The original word was n not "good"--it was functional. It has been shown to you before, you choose to ignore it. God made everything functional,
FUNCTIONAL: (masc.: טוב / tov) (fem.: טובה / to'vah) Fulfilling the action for which a person or thing is specially fitted or used, or for which a thing exists. A functioning within its intended purpose. Strong's: #2896, #2898

She was created to have children---she was created fully functional. Shje diud noit have to sin to fullfull what she was created to do.

He is the way said:

The Book of Mormon is proof that Joseph Smith was a prophet of God.

Click to expand...

The BOM, and all his other writings, are proof is wasn't.