Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

Does willful sin separate those once saved from God.

  • No, obedience is "works" and we are not saved by works.

    Votes: 10 33.3%
  • Yes, willful sin must be repented from in order to stay saved.

    Votes: 20 66.7%

  • Total voters
    30

Wordkeeper

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LOL You also did not understand me. None of those verses even uses the word "sanctification"
Lady, I was showing you sanctification in action.

Genesis 22
15And the Angel of the LORD called to Abraham from heaven a second time, 16saying, “By Myself I have sworn, declares the LORD, that because you have done this and have not withheld your only son, 17I will surely bless you, and I will multiply your descendants like the stars in the sky and the sand on the seashore. Your descendants will possess the gates of their enemies. 18And through your offspring all nations of the earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”

Hebrews 3
7Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says:
“Today, if you hear His voice,
8do not harden your hearts,
as you did in the rebellion,
in the day of testing in the wilderness.
 
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Wordkeeper

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But how do you know it is even called sanctification? That's what I've tried to find.
Sanctification is being fulfilled. You saw that in the text recording the incident of the rich young man

We were all created to be brothers and sisters of Christ.

Wow. Family. Who will bless creation:

Romans 8
14For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, are the sons of God. 15For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

18For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.
 
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CharismaticLady

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Sanctification is being fulfilled. You saw that in the text recording the incident of the rich young man

We were all created to be brothers and sisters of Christ.

Wow. Family.

Describing sanctification is not the same as where it is CALLED sanctification.

(I have a good reason for asking this. It is not just a hide 'n seek expedition. LOL)
 
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CharismaticLady

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Sanctification is being fulfilled. You saw that in the text recording the incident of the rich young man

We were all created to be brothers and sisters of Christ.

Wow. Family. Who will bless creation:

Romans 8
14For all who are being led by the Spirit of God, are the sons of God. 15For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, “Abba! Father!” 16The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God, 17and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him.

18For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us. 19For the anxious longing of the creation waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.

Again, the word, sanctification, is not there.
 
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bcbsr

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"If we shrink back" implies that it is possible to shrink back. .
Except that it goes on to say, "we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved." Heb 10:39 So apparently that's not a possibility in the case of the "we".
 
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CharismaticLady

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Except that it goes on to say, "we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved." Heb 10:39 So apparently that's not a possibility in the case of the "we".

Not necessarily. The "we" could be a pledge. In other words, we pledge to not sin willfully.
 
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Wordkeeper

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Describing sanctification is not the same as where it is CALLED sanctification.

(I have a good reason for asking this. It is not just a hide 'n seek expedition. LOL)

The touching of an unclean by the clean is called sanctification here. Sanctification is separation through cleansing towards preservation or use, as opposed to devotion, which is separation either to destruction OR preservation.


1 Corinthians 7
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.
 
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CharismaticLady

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The touching of an unclean by the clean is called sanctification here. Sanctification is separation through cleansing towards preservation or use, as opposed to devotion, which is separation either to destruction OR preservation.


1 Corinthians 7
For the unbelieving husband is sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified through her believing husband; for otherwise your children are unclean, but now they are holy.

They are set apart, but it doesn't describe it as a process. BTW, I've never understood that verse. If the unbelieving husband who is sanctified dies, he's still not saved, or is he? We are all accountable to God individually. But in another place he says "you and your household"
 
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Phil W

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IMO... And there in lies the lie. “While we were yet sinners”...
Jesus died before "we" were even born, much less while "we" were still sinners.

He ate with sinners... so now the (Romans 8:9) can’t claim them as His?!?
Jesus walked in a time wherein all men were sinners, unfreed from the law of sin and death, unable to walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh, unatoned for, unseparated from the infidel, unconsecrated.
The folks of Rom 8:9 have the Spirit, and are not "in the flesh".

Explain how HE can enter sinners hearts, but can’t stay in forgiven sinners. :)
Where is it written that HE will enter the heart (or mind) of the sinner?
He will stay in the heart of the truly repentant.
But, of course, that means they are now non-sinners!
 
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Phil W

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This is called adding to scripture. ;)
Hardly.
Servants of sin have but one way out of sin, but the world and those who are still of the world do everything at their disposal to keep men from Christ.
That sounds like oppression to me.
 
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Phil W

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1 Thessalonians 4:9-10 ; Ephesians 3:17 ; 2 Thessalonians 1:3 ; Philippians 1:9 ; 1 Thessalonians 3:12 ; Hebrews 6:19 ; Romans 5:5-10 ; Jeremiah 17:7-8 ; 1 Corinthians 15 ; 1 John 2:27 ; Philippians 2 ; 2 Corinthians 13:9 ; Romans 7
You are misconstruing sanctification for growing in grace and knowledge.
 
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Phil W

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The her/she is Israel.
I've never heard of Israel, (a man), or the nation, described as a female?

The promise to Abraham is that the world would be blessed through his descendants. None of the heroes of faith of Hebrews 11 saw this promise. Was the thief a blessing to the world? Peter could walk down a street and people would be blessed ...
He was to me, as I can see the similarities between his crucifixion and my own...the wages of our sins being granted.
It is also a blessing to those seeking the results of faith in the promises of the Christ.
 
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Wordkeeper

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I've never heard of Israel, (a man), or the nation, described as a female?

Ezekiel 23:11-21
And when her sister Aholibah saw this, she was more corrupt in her inordinate love than she, and in her whoredoms more than her sister in her whoredoms…

Hosea 4:15
Though thou, Israel, play the harlot, yet let not Judah offend; and come not ye unto Gilgal, neither go ye up to Bethaven, nor swear, The LORD liveth.

Jeremiah 3:8
Because faithless Israel had committed adultery, I gave her a certificate of divorce and sent her away. Yet I saw that her unfaithful sister Judah had no fear and prostituted herself as well.

He was to me, as I can see the similarities between his crucifixion and my own...the wages of our sins being granted.

It is also a blessing to those seeking the results of faith in the promises of the Christ.
Generally, people drink from the Rock when they see a cross and a resurrection, God doing great works. Joshua risked his life in doing a great work, picked up a cross, and God raised him up, causing Rahab to be motivated to leave mammon and serve God, which is a blessing.

Joshua 2
10“For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red Sea before you when you came out of Egypt, and what you did to the two kings of the Amorites who were beyond the Jordan, to Sihon and Og, whom you utterly destroyed. 11“When we heard it, our hearts melted and no courage remained in any man any longer because of you; for the LORD your God, He is God in heaven above and on earth beneath.
 
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Grip Docility

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Jesus died before "we" were even born, much less while "we" were still sinners.


Jesus walked in a time wherein all men were sinners, unfreed from the law of sin and death, unable to walk in the Spirit instead of in the flesh, unatoned for, unseparated from the infidel, unconsecrated.
The folks of Rom 8:9 have the Spirit, and are not "in the flesh".


Where is it written that HE will enter the heart (or mind) of the sinner?
He will stay in the heart of the truly repentant.
But, of course, that means they are now non-sinners!


Romans 5:8
 
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Grip Docility

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Hardly.
Servants of sin have but one way out of sin, but the world and those who are still of the world do everything at their disposal to keep men from Christ.
That sounds like oppression to me.

Brother,

Christ’s imputed Righteousness Of His life and and Death are our only acceptable Justification. Sanctification... Shaping of our soul... is indicative of our need ro be shaped by Him. He who claims he needs no shaping is denying the very purpose of the Holy Spirit.
 
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Grip Docility

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You are misconstruing sanctification for growing in grace and knowledge.

That moment when the gnat strainer misses a camel and words intended to correct a point actually bolster the point that one is attempting to correct.

This is like saying that bears aren’t what was being discussed, but hairy, strong jawed, long clawed animals that like caves, scratch their backs on trees and fish in streams.
 
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Wordkeeper

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That moment when the gnat strainer misses a camel and words intended to correct a point actually bolster the point that one is attempting to correct.

This is like saying that bears aren’t what was being discussed, but hairy, strong jawed, long clawed animals that like caves, scratch their backs on trees and fish in streams.
Agreed.

Ephesians 5
25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself up for her, 26so that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the word, 27that He might present to Himself the church in all her glory, having no spot or wrinkle or any such thing; but that she would be holy and blameless.
 
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