Sola Fide (Faith Alone) Sets the Record Straight

Grip Docility

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Acts 15:19 and Acts 21:25 made it clear that, as far as James is concerned, the Jews are not exempted from following the Law of Moses after they accepted Jesus Christ as their Messiah. Only the Gentiles are to be exempted.

Thus, when someone read James chapter 2, bear in mind that he was writing to the 12 tribes of Israel. When us Gentiles read that letter as written TO us, we will have a problem trying to reconcile what is not meant to be reconciled.

All of the words of those verses you quoted have to do with infidelity to God.

Not food ordinances or law based conduct. If you read all of Paul you'd Know this.

Sexual misconduct... : Proverbs 23:27-35 ... you think that’s a literal woman being discussed? Galatians 5:4 and Galatians 1:6-9

Romans 1 isn’t about sexual conduct either, but instead Creations that worship the creation over the Creator.

As for food... ordinances... (Romans 14:2 ; Genesis 9:3)

And... as for the Laws of Moses... (Galatians 3:10)
 
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Guojing

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All of the words of those verses you quoted have to do with infidelity to God.

Do you disagree with my point that James always wanted the Jews to follow the Law of Moses, even after they accept Jesus as their Messiah?
 
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klutedavid

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James is not teaching that man is justified/accounted as righteous/saved by works in James 2:24 as works-salvationists teach. *Once again, In James 2:24, James is not using the word "justified" to mean "accounted as righteous" but is shown to be righteous. *James is discussing the evidence of faith (says-claims to have faith but has no works/I will show you my faith by my works - James 2:14-18), not the initial act of being accounted as righteous with God (Romans 4:2-3).

In Paul's epistles, yes. In James 2, no. The harmony of Romans 4:2-3 and James 2:24 is seen in the differing ways that Paul and James use the term "justified." Paul uses the term to refer to the legal or judicial act by which God "accounts the believer as righteous." James however is using the term to "describe those who would show the genuineness of their faith by their works."

A little more context indeed. In James 2:14, we read of one who says/claims he has faith but has no works (to validate his claim). That is not genuine faith, but a bare profession of faith. So when James asks, "Can that faith save him?" he is saying nothing against genuine faith, but only against an empty profession of faith/dead faith. *So James does not teach that we are saved "by" works. His concern is to show the reality of the faith professed by the individual (James 2:18) and demonstrate that the faith claimed (James 2:14) by the individual is genuine. Simple!

Faith without works is dead (James 2:17,20) does not mean that faith is dead until it produces works and then it becomes a living faith (which is like saying that a tree is dead until it produces fruit and then it becomes a living tree) or that works are the source of life in faith or that we are saved by works. James is simply saying faith that is not accompanied by evidential works is dead. If some says-claims to have faith yet they lack resulting evidential works, then they have an empty profession of faith/dead faith and not authentic faith.

In James 2:19, the demons may believe "mental assent" that "there is one God," yet they do not believe/have faith in/trust in/reliance in Jesus Christ for salvation. In other words, they do not believe on the Lord Jesus Christ (Acts 16:31) and are not saved. Their trust and reliance is in Satan as demonstrated by their rebellion in heaven and continuous evil works. You seem to believe that all belief is the same except for the lack of works and cannot seem to grasp a deeper faith which trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, which also explains why you have so much faith in works for salvation.

Faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1) Faith is not works, yet we show our faith by our works. (James 2:18) SHOW, not establish. Works are the fruit of faith, not the essence of faith. Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all demonstrates there is no root. That is the separation. You are trying to infuse the two and the erroneous end result is salvation by faith and works. *Be sure to go back and meditate on post #524.

Just the opposite. It's you who does not believe that Christ's finished work of redemption is sufficient to save if you believe that works help save us in part. Either Christ did it all (ALL-sufficient Savior) or else we did some of it (IN-sufficient Savior). You can't have it both ways.

Becoming saved through faith, not works and showing our faith by our works does not mean that works play a part in obtaining salvation. My belief is not a contradiction. It is through faith in Christ alone (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justified is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony* :oldthumbsup:

Your belief is a perversion of the gospel and you simply cannot see it. :guardsman:
Well written.

Romans 11:6
But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Saved by grace and that is through faith.
 
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klutedavid

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Do you disagree with my point that James always wanted the Jews to follow the Law of Moses, even after they accept Jesus as their Messiah?

James 2:12
So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.
 
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Guojing

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Yes. James blows that idea apart by James 2:10.

I don't see how that verse implies that James is saying the Jews should not keep the law. It will contradict what James was saying in Acts 21:20

“You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law

Perhaps you can explain further?

To me, that verse is merely him saying that Jews should not attempt to keep "part of the law" and ignore the rest. They must try to keep all of it, to the best they can.
 
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Grip Docility

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I don't see how that verse implies that James is saying the Jews should not keep the law. It will contradict what James was saying in Acts 21:20

“You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law

Perhaps you can explain further?

To me, that verse is merely him saying that Jews should not attempt to keep "part of the law" and ignore the rest. They must try to keep all of it, to the best they can.

Galatians 5:4 period
 
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Guojing

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Galatians 5:4 period

I see that you keep trying to reconcile Paul with James, no wonder.

Is it that hard to accept that James's authority is over the Jews, while Paul's authority is over Gentiles? These 2 are writing to different audiences, don't try to reconcile them together.

Galatians 2

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.
 
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def

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I see that you keep trying to reconcile Paul with James, no wonder.

Is it that hard to accept that James's authority is over the Jews, while Paul's authority is over Gentiles? These 2 are writing to different audiences, don't try to reconcile them together.

Galatians 2

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

I think it is a big mistake to think that the teachings of James are not relevant to the Gentiles. Both their teachings are included in the New Testament, which teaches the New Covenant. One has to understand how the teachings of James and Paul are connected.
 
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Grip Docility

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I see that you keep trying to reconcile Paul with James, no wonder.

Is it that hard to accept that James's authority is over the Jews, while Paul's authority is over Gentiles? These 2 are writing to different audiences, don't try to reconcile them together.

Galatians 2

7 But contrariwise, when they saw that the gospel of the uncircumcision was committed unto me, as the gospel of the circumcision was unto Peter;

8 (For he that wrought effectually in Peter to the apostleship of the circumcision, the same was mighty in me toward the Gentiles:)

9 And when James, Cephas, and John, who seemed to be pillars, perceived the grace that was given unto me, they gave to me and Barnabas the right hands of fellowship; that we should go unto the heathen, and they unto the circumcision.

10 Only they would that we should remember the poor; the same which I also was forward to do.

Dispensation that doesn’t recognize Jesus Christ as the true Temple of the Jews has no value to me.
 
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Guojing

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Dispensation that doesn’t recognize Jesus Christ as the true Temple of the Jews has no value to me.

I don't really understand what you are saying here and how it connects to this current discussion.
 
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Guojing

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I think it is a big mistake to think that the teachings of James are not relevant to the Gentiles. Both their teachings are included in the New Testament, which teaches the New Covenant. One has to understand how the teachings of James and Paul are connected.

For one thing, the new covenant did not begin with the New Testament, definitely not with the book of Matthew. Jesus was preaching under the Law.

For another, if you happen to read a letter written by the US president to Americans, and you are an Aussie, would you try to follow the instructions in that letter, thinking that they necessarily apply to you?
 
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Grip Docility

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I don't really understand what you are saying here and how it connects to this current discussion.

Did Paul say Faith without Love is worthless?

1 Corinthians 13:2

Yes he did, and your point is?

Did James say faith without Love is Dead?

James 2:8 ; James 2:14.... did not James agree with Paul?
 
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Guojing

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Did Paul say Faith without Love is worthless?

1 Corinthians 13:2

Did James say faith without Love is Dead?

James 2:8 ; James 2:14.... did not James agree with Paul?

Let me quote Acts 21 here and you tell me

17 And when we had come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 [d]What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come.

23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.

25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided [e]that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from [f]sexual immorality.”

The book of James was written way before Acts 21, and very likely even before Acts 15. When you read this instructions from James to Paul, ask yourself the following questions.

Did James believe that the Jews who believe in Jesus still have to keep the law? Yes
Did James believe that Gentiles are exempted from keeping the law? Yes

Once you accept the answer to the 2 questions is yes, then when you read James chapter 1

1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

you would have no problem understanding that James was writing to Jews, and not Gentiles. For us Gentiles, we take our church doctrine from Paul, and James approve of that in Galatians 2.
 
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Grip Docility

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Let me quote Acts 21 here and you tell me

17 And when we had come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 18 On the following day Paul went in with us to James, and all the elders were present. 19 When he had greeted them, he told in detail those things which God had done among the Gentiles through his ministry.

20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord. And they said to him, “You see, brother, how many myriads of Jews there are who have believed, and they are all zealous for the law; 21 but they have been informed about you that you teach all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs. 22 [d]What then? The assembly must certainly meet, for they will hear that you have come.

23 Therefore do what we tell you: We have four men who have taken a vow. 24 Take them and be purified with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads, and that all may know that those things of which they were informed concerning you are nothing, but that you yourself also walk orderly and keep the law.

25 But concerning the Gentiles who believe, we have written and decided [e]that they should observe no such thing, except that they should keep themselves from things offered to idols, from blood, from things strangled, and from [f]sexual immorality.”

The book of James was written way before Acts 21, and very likely even before Acts 15. When you read this instructions from James to Paul, ask yourself the following questions.

Did James believe that the Jews who believe in Jesus still have to keep the law? Yes
Did James believe that Gentiles are exempted from keeping the law? Yes

Once you accept the answer to the 2 questions is yes, then when you read James chapter 1

1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.

you would have no problem understanding that James was writing to Jews, and not Gentiles. For us Gentiles, we take our church doctrine from Paul, and James approve of that in Galatians 2.

Mid Acts dispensational teaching is not the thrust of Acts.

I understand the difference between the twelve tribes.... and the 7 churches....

I understand that many Jews for Jesus celebrate the old ways to further bind their foreshadowing to the fullness of Jesus.... BUT...

The Scriptures agree with one another and of the conflict between Paul and James.... Paul won!

Peter, Who was the emissary to the Jewish BOC.... as Galatians states... folded his cards... and wrote these words.... 2 Peter 3:16

Paul won on all fronts!

Peter fed The Lords Jewish sheep and eventually members of The Body of Moses divided from or assimilated fully into The Body of Christ.

We are in the Age of the Gentiles and in this age.... all are 1 in Jesus Christ.

All will further be 1 in Jesus Christ when all is accomplished... at The Day Of The Lord.

It is right to know the Diaspora books and their future prophetic purpose, as well... if one is led to know such things... but for now... we use All Cannon as it sets towards the Gentile Age.

Doctrine was in a shift within Acts... and this cannot be contested... you have captured this shift... enunciated within Acts.

This is my opinion.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Actually James never believe that the Jews could be saved by faith only, apart from works. Acts 15 and 21 made that clear.
Yes I agree, but a person who is justified (counted as being righteous by God) can later be counted as unrighteous if he does not obey God’s commandments. Being justified doesn’t guarantee salvation. We must also abide in Christ to receive salvation.
 
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bcbsr

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Actually James never believe that the Jews could be saved by faith only, apart from works. Acts 15 and 21 made that clear.
Yeh, in Acts 15 Peter and Paul agreed on the gospel. Peter said, "Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear? No! We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are." Acts 15:10,11 and referenced his preaching to Cornelius who was saved by simply believing message.

But James picked up on something Peter said, namely characterizing justification by the Law of Moses as "a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear" and responded, "It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God." Acts 15:19 But rather than advocating Paul's gospel as Peter did, whereby salvation is a free gift obtain by faith in the promise, he thought he could tinker with the gospel and simply make justification by the law easier to attain by changing to the law to make it simpler for the Gentiles.

In doing so not only was he rejecting the gospel, but he was making a distinction between Jew and Gentile contrary to Peter's statement, "He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith." Acts 15:9

Paul never mentions James' decree in his writings. Not even in Galatians. And in fact writes things which are contrary to the decree.
 
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bcbsr

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Yes I agree, but a person who is justified (counted as being righteous by God) can later be counted as unrighteous if he does not obey God’s commandments. Being justified doesn’t guarantee salvation. We must also abide in Christ to receive salvation.
And yet there are those (like myself) who are already saved, and are not subject to condemnation, as if we had already passed from death to life, as Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24. In compliance to the command of Rom 6:11 I reckon myself dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus. To reckon otherwise would be disobedience.
 
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