LDS Damnation for Refusal to Become Mormon

mmksparbud said:

Yah--it's called willful disobedience to a direct command from God! He told them what would happen is they did--they did---it happened. And BTW--the word for day in Gen 1 is different from the word for day in Gen2. Day in Gen 1 is 24 hour--day in Gen 2 is age--eon. It's Yom and beyom.

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What happened when Adam and Eve ate of the fruit:

(Old Testament | Job 38:7)

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

He is the way said:

What happened when Adam and Eve ate of the fruit:

(Old Testament | Job 38:7)

7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

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What in the world??!!! What a crock!! Prime example of Mormon scripture twisting!!!!


Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
Job 38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Job 38:8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
Job 38:9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
Job 38:10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
Job 38:11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
Job 38:12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
Job 38:14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
Job 38:15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
Job 38:16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
Job 38:17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
Job 38:18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
Job 38:19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
Job 38:20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?
Job 38:21 Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?
Job 38:22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
Job 38:23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
Job 38:24 By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?
Job 38:25 Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;
Job 38:26 To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;
Job 38:27 To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?
Job 38:28 Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?
Job 38:29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
Job 38:30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
Job 38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
Job 38:33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
Job 38:34 Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?
Job 38:35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are?
Job 38:36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?
Job 38:37 Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,
Job 38:38 When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?
Job 38:39 Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions,
Job 38:40 When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait?
Job 38:41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.

IN OTHER WORDS---JOB DIDN'T KNOW DIDLY- SQUAT AND WASN'T THERE FOR ANY OF IT AND DIDN'T DO ANY OF IT!

He is the way said:

What happened when Adam and Eve ate of the fruit:

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This is what happened:

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

What does GREATLY MULTIPLY THY SORROW AND THEY CONCEPTION mean? Hint - Multiply---
to increase--meaning, what was there will be more---conception will now have sorrow. It would have been pretty painless before---now--MULTIPLIED. Which means---she would have conceived without fall, now it's really going to be painful.

mmksparbud said:

What in the world??!!! What a crock!! Prime example of Mormon scripture twisting!!!!


Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
Job 38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.
Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?
Job 38:8 Or who shut up the sea with doors, when it brake forth, as if it had issued out of the womb?
Job 38:9 When I made the cloud the garment thereof, and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it,
Job 38:10 And brake up for it my decreed place, and set bars and doors,
Job 38:11 And said, Hitherto shalt thou come, but no further: and here shall thy proud waves be stayed?
Job 38:12 Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days; and caused the dayspring to know his place;
Job 38:13 That it might take hold of the ends of the earth, that the wicked might be shaken out of it?
Job 38:14 It is turned as clay to the seal; and they stand as a garment.
Job 38:15 And from the wicked their light is withholden, and the high arm shall be broken.
Job 38:16 Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea? or hast thou walked in the search of the depth?
Job 38:17 Have the gates of death been opened unto thee? or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death?
Job 38:18 Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth? declare if thou knowest it all.
Job 38:19 Where is the way where light dwelleth? and as for darkness, where is the place thereof,
Job 38:20 That thou shouldest take it to the bound thereof, and that thou shouldest know the paths to the house thereof?
Job 38:21 Knowest thou it, because thou wast then born? or because the number of thy days is great?
Job 38:22 Hast thou entered into the treasures of the snow? or hast thou seen the treasures of the hail,
Job 38:23 Which I have reserved against the time of trouble, against the day of battle and war?
Job 38:24 By what way is the light parted, which scattereth the east wind upon the earth?
Job 38:25 Who hath divided a watercourse for the overflowing of waters, or a way for the lightning of thunder;
Job 38:26 To cause it to rain on the earth, where no man is; on the wilderness, wherein there is no man;
Job 38:27 To satisfy the desolate and waste ground; and to cause the bud of the tender herb to spring forth?
Job 38:28 Hath the rain a father? or who hath begotten the drops of dew?
Job 38:29 Out of whose womb came the ice? and the hoary frost of heaven, who hath gendered it?
Job 38:30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.
Job 38:31 Canst thou bind the sweet influences of Pleiades, or loose the bands of Orion?
Job 38:32 Canst thou bring forth Mazzaroth in his season? or canst thou guide Arcturus with his sons?
Job 38:33 Knowest thou the ordinances of heaven? canst thou set the dominion thereof in the earth?
Job 38:34 Canst thou lift up thy voice to the clouds, that abundance of waters may cover thee?
Job 38:35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we are?
Job 38:36 Who hath put wisdom in the inward parts? or who hath given understanding to the heart?
Job 38:37 Who can number the clouds in wisdom? or who can stay the bottles of heaven,
Job 38:38 When the dust groweth into hardness, and the clods cleave fast together?
Job 38:39 Wilt thou hunt the prey for the lion? or fill the appetite of the young lions,
Job 38:40 When they couch in their dens, and abide in the covert to lie in wait?
Job 38:41 Who provideth for the raven his food? when his young ones cry unto God, they wander for lack of meat.

IN OTHER WORDS---JOB DIDN'T KNOW DIDLY- SQUAT AND WASN'T THERE FOR ANY OF IT AND DIDN'T DO ANY OF IT!

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IOW Job didn't remember what happened, but he is a son and was there among the sons of God that shouted for joy.

mmksparbud said:

This is what happened:

Gen 3:16 Unto the woman he said, I will greatly multiply thy sorrow and thy conception; in sorrow thou shalt bring forth children; and thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee.
Gen 3:17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;
Gen 3:18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;
Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.

What does GREATLY MULTIPLY THY SORROW AND THEY CONCEPTION mean? Hint - Multiply---
to increase--meaning, what was there will be more---conception will now have sorrow. It would have been pretty painless before---now--MULTIPLIED. Which means---she would have conceived without fall, now it's really going to be painful.

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It also means that she will have children.

Ironhold said:

Let's slow this down a minute.

In the period before the Final Judgement, a person is sent to the spirit world as a way station.

Once there, they will be put in one of two places: Spirit Paradise, for the righteous, and Spirit Prison, for the wicked. Basically, it's first class vs. economy.

When Jesus said that the one thief would be with him in Paradise, it's taken to mean Spirit Paradise.

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I just bought plane tickets in the economy section. Does that mean I'm in prison??

mmksparbud said:

They were no longer Jewish priests---that was a part of their duties. And scriptures clearly states ALL BELIEVERS --are priests and kings! Not just a select few.

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You must be referring to this scripture:
(New Testament | Revelation 1:5 - 7)

5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

So who does Jesus LOVE:

(Old Testament | Deuteronomy 5:10)

10 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

(New Testament | John 14:21)

21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

BigDaddy4 said:

I just bought plane tickets in the economy section. Does that mean I'm in prison??

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It means you are not flying in the same area where people paid the higher price.

BigDaddy4 said:

I just bought plane tickets in the economy section. Does that mean I'm in prison??

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See, if you had kept the commandments, you'd have more leg room.

I bet in the highest of the heavenly kingdoms your seat reclines all the way back, too.

He is the way said:

IOW Job didn't remember what happened, but he is a son and was there among the sons of God that shouted for joy.

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There was nothing to remember---He wasn't there and he had no idea about any of it. The passage is very clear that Job was not there. It states clearly he had no knowledge of any of it---doesn't say he had no memory of the event--he had no knowledge of it. Read the whole passage---all the questions asked are rhetorical--Job could offer no answers to those questions.

He is the way said:

It also means that she will have children.

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Yah--of course she will---she was created for that purpose and would have done so even if she had not fallen.

mmksparbud said:

There is no priesthood mentioned in the NT.

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i am coming in late to this dicscussion so if someone has responded to this, forgive me.

Are you serious mmksparbud???? I have proven you wrong on this subject at least 10 times before. Priesthood is definitely in the NT. Your church does not believe in the priesthood, nor does it have the priesthhood, so you go about rewriting the NT to abolish any thoughts of the priesthood. That is why you think there is no priesthood in the NT, but I have proven to you at least 10 times that there is.

drstevej said:

Any commandment that you have not kept, Heistheway???

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Dumb question.

Phoebe Ann said:

BEFORE They Leave This World
If men would acquire salvation, they have got to be subject, before they leave this world, to certain rules and principles, which were fixed by unalterable decree before the world was.
Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 324
Ron Anderson

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When "this world" is mentioned it means the "mortal life" + the "spirit world" together. "This world" is everything from the time you are born to the time that you are judged. By the time you are judged if you do not live by certain rules and principles, which were fixed by unalterable decree before the world was, you will not have eternal life with God and Jesus.

Peter1000 said:

When "this world" is mentioned it means the "mortal life" + the "spirit world" together. "This world" is everything from the time you are born to the time that you are judged.

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So the "spirit world" is the same as this world you and are living in right now as we are typing these messages? That doesn't seem to follow what other Mormons have said in this thread...

mmksparbud said:

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

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I agree.

mmksparbud said:

Oh--sorry! It's this
Dallin H. Oaks Quorum of the Twelve Apostles

It was Eve who first transgressed the limits of Eden in order to initiate the conditions of mortality. Her act, whatever its nature, was formally a transgression but eternally a glorious necessity to open the doorway toward eternal life. Adam showed his wisdom by doing the same. And thus Eve and "Adam fell that men might be" (v. 25).

Some Christians condemn Eve for her act, concluding that she and her daughters are somehow flawed by it. Not the Latter-day Saints! Informed by revelation, we celebrate Eve's act and honor her wisdom and courage in the great episode called the Fall (see Bruce R. McConkie, "Eve and the Fall," in Woman [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book Co., 1979], pp. 67-68). Joseph Smith taught that it was not a "sin" because God had decreed it (see The Words of Joseph Smith, ed. Andrew F. Ehat and Lyndon W. Cook [Provo: Religious Studies Center, Brigham Young University, 1980], p. 63). Brigham Young declared, "We should never blame Mother Eve, not the least" (in Journal of Discourses, 13:145). Elder Joseph Fielding Smith said: "I never speak of the part Eve took in this fall as a sin, nor do I accuse Adam of a sin. . . . This was a transgression of the law, but not a sin . . . for it was something that Adam and Eve had to do!" (Doctrines of Salvation, comp. Bruce R. McConkie, 3 vols. [Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1954-56], 1:114-15).

Isa 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

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Tell me what the difference is between transgression and sin is?

mmksparbud said:

Yah--it's called willful disobedience to a direct command from God! He told them what would happen is they did--they did---it happened. And BTW--the word for day in Gen 1 is different from the word for day in Gen2. Day in Gen 1 is 24 hour--day in Gen 2 is age--eon. It's Yom and beyom.

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Interesting. Is Yom and beyom Hebrew?

mmksparbud said:

They were no longer Jewish priests---that was a part of their duties. And scriptures clearly states ALL BELIEVERS --are priests and kings! Not just a select few.

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So if all believers are priests, how can you challenge the idea that there are no more priests?