Love God...

Tree of Life · Jun 23, 2019

TheSeabass said:
.....just like works are inseparable from faith?

Love is obedience
Faith is a work

These concepts should not be mindlessly collapsed into one another. Faith and works can be distinguished. Love and obedience can be distinguished. The Bible distinguishes between these things. But they cannot be separated. One who loves obeys. One who believes works.

Yet it is vitally important to maintain the distinctions because an obedience without love is no obedience at all. And we are saved by faith alone and not works.

Hammster · Jun 23, 2019

TheSeabass said:
So how can one who has NOT obeyed love God? A person can CLAIM they love God but not until they obey Him do they actually love him. obedience is proof of the love, without obedience ther is no proof of love.

Luke 6:46 one can CLAIM Jesus is their Lord but not until they do what He says is He their Lord.

Now you are saying that obedience is proof. That’s not what you said before.

Hammster · Jun 23, 2019

TheSeabass said:
if I love God then I would not live in adultery as I may want to.

Why wouldn’t you want to obey?

Hammster · Jun 23, 2019

TheSeabass said:
Again, obedience IS love. So one can CLAIM they love God but not until they obey do they actually love Him.

What comes first, love or obedience?

Monk Brendan · Jun 23, 2019

TheSeabass said:
John 14:15
If ye love Me, keep MY commandments
or
If ye love Me, do what YOU want.

If you love God first, then what you WANT to do is keep His commandments.

LovebirdsFlying · Jun 23, 2019

My take: If I love somebody--anybody--I will want to please that person. I would not want to do anything to hurt or offend. So if that person wants or needs things done a certain way, I will be happy to accommodate. I can't imagine saying to anybody I love, "I don't care how you feel about it. I'm going to do as I please regardless of what you say." Because that wouldn't be love.

So why would I treat God that way?

AbbaLove · Jun 23, 2019

Hammster said:
Do those who love God want to keep His commandments?

IMO ... "Reform Theology" has caused you some confusion as to whether or not the correct answer is Yes or No. Reform theology (akin to Calvinism) teaches that GOD'S "chosen elect" have already been predestined for eternal security.

Your real question, as a Christian of "Reform Theology" might better be: Does God choose His "elect" knowing in advance that they will love Him and keep His commandments? You aren't the first Christian of "Reform theology" that is confused; especially if you feel that you aren't as obedient as much as you think GOD requires of you. Even moreso if you are into hyer-grace believing it's not necessary to be obedient all the time (e.g. impossible to kick a sinful habit that you enjoy).

Halbhh · Jun 23, 2019

Hammster said:
Love God and do what you want. Or variations thereof. It’s a quote attributed to Augustine. (We don’t need links to the original. I only want to discuss the phrase.)

True? False?

Let the discussion commence.

John 15:1-17

Halbhh · Jun 23, 2019

Tree of Life said:
Can one keep his commandments without loving him?

TheSeabass said:
one cannot love God without keeping His commandments.

keeping commandments = love

John ch 15, v:1-17 brings it all together.

1“I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit.3Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned. 7If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. 9As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love.10If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. 11These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full.

12“This is my commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you.13Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.14You are my friends if you do what I command you. 15No longer do I call you servants,a for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from my Father I have made known to you. 16You did not choose me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit and that your fruit should abide, so that whatever you ask the Father in my name, he may give it to you. 17These things I command you, so that you will love one another.

PaulCyp1 · Jun 23, 2019

What Augustine meant of course is that if you truly love someone, what that person wants and needs you to do is your first priority.

Halbhh · Jun 23, 2019

For so many different understandings, churches, viewpoints, questions, the John chapter 15 passage brings them all together into the right way.

Hazelelponi · Jun 23, 2019

I believe for every Christian the answer is this is an absolutely true statement.

The issue at hand may be to what degree this statement echoes Biblical truths in our personal lives as a people walking in Christ.

I fall short, on a daily basis, of the degree of love God rightly deserves - which is all my mind, heart and strength. Therefore also fall short in the degree to which I find myself following His commands.

I thank God therefore, that Christ was perfect..

For perfect love cast out fear...

ilovejcsog · Jun 23, 2019

False, love God and follow his laws, etc.

ilovejcsog · Jun 23, 2019

False, love God and follow his laws, etc.

fhansen · Jun 23, 2019

TheSeabass said:
Again, obedience IS love. So one can CLAIM they love God but not until they obey do they actually love Him.

And until they love Him they won't actually obey, at least not for the right reasons. I still like the way Basil of Cesarea put it:
If we turn away from evil out of fear of punishment, we are in the position of slaves. If we pursue the enticement of wages, . . . we resemble mercenaries. Finally if we obey for the sake of the good itself and out of love for him who commands . . . we are in the position of children.

And it's interesting that the Greatest Commandments are the only ones that really cannot be faked, or fulfilled for the wrong reasons such as legalism- because only if and when we do love God and neighbor they're authentically fulfilled- and justice or righteousness would be complete in us.

Hammster · Jun 23, 2019

AbbaLove said:
IMO ... "Reform Theology" has caused you some confusion as to whether or not the correct answer is Yes or No. Reform theology (akin to Calvinism) teaches that GOD'S "chosen elect" have already been predestined for eternal security.

Your real question, as a Christian of "Reform Theology" might better be: Does God choose His "elect" knowing in advance that they will love Him and keep His commandments? You aren't the first Christian of "Reform theology" that is confused; especially if you feel that you aren't as obedient as much as you think GOD requires of you. Even moreso if you are into hyer-grace believing it's not necessary to be obedient all the time (e.g. impossible to kick a sinful habit that you enjoy).

Actually, the question I asked is the one that I really wanted to ask. If I had wanted to ask the question you proposed, that’s what the thread would have been about.

Hammster · Jun 23, 2019

ilovejcsog said:
False, love God and follow his laws, etc.

So you don’t want to follow His laws?

Goose0612 · Jun 23, 2019

Hammster said:
Love God and do what you want. Or variations thereof. It’s a quote attributed to Augustine. (We don’t need links to the original. I only want to discuss the phrase.)

True? False?

Let the discussion commence.

aiki · Jun 23, 2019

Hammster said:
Love God and do what you want. Or variations thereof. It’s a quote attributed to Augustine. (We don’t need links to the original. I only want to discuss the phrase.)

True? False?

Let the discussion commence.

Whose will did Jesus come to fulfill? His own? No. The will of his Father in heaven. In Gethsemane, Jesus wrestled for a time with the tension between what his Father wanted and what he wanted. In the end, though, he submitted to the will of his Father, accepting the "cup" of suffering and death from which he would shortly have to drink. Where in these things is a "do what I want" attitude in evidence?

What did Jesus say to those who wanted to be his disciple?

Matthew 16:24-25
24 ...if any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake the same shall find it.

How do I do as I want while at the same time living in self-denial, in the crucified life, to which every believer is called? Death to Self, death to what I want, is fundamental to holy, deep fellowship with God. Paul explains this in detail in Romans 6 and mentions the crucified life repeatedly throughout his letters (Galatians 2:20; Galatians 5:24; Galatians 6:14; Colossians 2:20; Colossians 3:3; 2 Timothy 2:11, etc.), the heart of which is a denial of one's own will and way, of one's own desires and goals, of one's rights and philosophies so that one may be a "living sacrifice" unto God a "vessel sanctified and meet for the Master's use."

Romans 12:1
1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

John 12:24-25
24 Truly, truly, I say unto you, except a grain of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abides alone: but if it die, it brings forth much fruit.
25 He who loves his life shall lose it; and he who hates his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

Goose0612 · Jun 23, 2019

This is an easy one. Jesus died for you because of your sins that he despises. If you have faith in the sacrifice and resurrection of Christ, then one of the gifts that you receive is the power of Gods holy spirit in your heart which begins the process of cleansing and eliminating your sins. You must be born again to see the kingdom of God (John 3:3). If you are born again, your hearts desire is to be conformed to the image of Christ. You hate sin and are wholeheartedly committed to working with Jesus to eliminate as much as is possible in this present form.

John 14:15 If you love me, then keep my commandments.

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