An Expert on Concentration Camps Says That's Exactly What the U.S. Is Running at the Border

tulc · Jun 23, 2019

Concentration Camps Expert Andrea Pitzer: The Trump Administration Is Running Camps at the Southern Border

Surely, the United States of America could not operate concentration camps. In the American consciousness, the term is synonymous with the Nazi death machines across the European continent that the Allies began the process of dismantling 75 years ago this month. But while the world-historical horrors of the Holocaust are unmatched, they are only the most extreme and inhuman manifestation of a concentration-camp system—which, according to Andrea Pitzer, author of One Long Night: A Global History of Concentration Camps, has a more global definition. There have been concentration camps in France, South Africa, Cuba, the Soviet Union, and—with Japanese internment—the United States. In fact, she contends we are operating such a system right now in response to a very real spike in arrivals at our southern border.

“We have what I would call a concentration camp system,” Pitzer says, “and the definition of that in my book is, mass detention of civilians without trial.”

Historians use a broader definition of concentration camps, as well.

"What's required is a little bit of demystification of it," says Waitman Wade Beorn, a Holocaust and genocide studies historian and a lecturer at the University of Virginia. "Things can be concentration camps without being Dachau or Auschwitz. Concentration camps in general have always been designed—at the most basic level—to separate one group of people from another group. Usually, because the majority group, or the creators of the camp, deem the people they're putting in it to be dangerous or undesirable in some way."

tulc(thinks this is an interesting article) :wave:

Tree of Life · Jun 23, 2019

JacobKStarkey · Jun 23, 2019

On the border, the camps are not versions of Belsen-Bergen, ok?

redleghunter · Jun 23, 2019

Therefore all refugee camps are now considered “concentration camps.”

Hank77 · Jun 23, 2019

They are refugee camps. They aren't as well set up as they should be, imo, but I don't know what else we can do with all these people. At least they are out of the weather and getting three meals a day.
They are better than the refugee camps in many other parts of the world where people are living in tents in the winter cold, sloshing through mud, and rape and other violence often happens.

Messerve · Jun 23, 2019

These people are practically walking right into the "camps" by trying to cross the border knowing the likelihood of not being caught. That's not even close to the scenario that formed real concentration camps!

I just finished a book on the Dutch Underground and it detailed how the Jews were completely misled into boarding those trains headed for the camps and how horrible the conditions were inside - dead bodies littering the ground that had to be collected every day, people beaten to death for something as small as steeling potato peels from the kitchen, washing blood soaked laundry collected from the bodies of their own soldiers...

The comparison is ludicrous.

Der Alte · Jun 23, 2019

What makes Andrea Pitzer an expert on concentration camps?
If people from other countries do not want to be in the camps operating at our borders don't attempt to enter the US illegally.
Unlike Nazi Germany and other countries that the US is being compared to, the US government is not going to go into other countries seize their people and force them to come to this country and place them in one of the facilities.
My uncle was in the US Army unit that liberated Dachau. My first duty station outside the US was in Dachau 13 years later. What is happening at our border is nothing like that.

SavedByGrace3 · Jun 23, 2019

So to reverse the comparison.
The Jews who were herded into German concentration camps were actually illegal immigrants asking Hitler and the NAZIs for asylum? They came to NAZI Germany seeking a better life for their families?
That is what you think?
Or not?

Tree of Life · Jun 23, 2019

If we reduce the meaning of "concentration camp" to "a camp where people are concentrated" then this might work. But of course that's also highly misleading because of the connotations connected to "concentration camp".

tulc · Jun 23, 2019

Hank77 said:
They are refugee camps. They aren't as well set up as they should be, imo, but I don't know what else we can do with all these people. At least they are out of the weather and getting three meals a day.
They are better than the refugee camps in many other parts of the world where people are living in tents in the winter cold, sloshing through mud, and rape and other violence often happens.

You mean like this: Sexual Assault Of Detained Migrant Children Reported In The Thousands Since 2015
or like this:
Inside a Texas Building Where the Government Is Holding Immigrant Children
or this:
Attorneys: Texas border facility is neglecting migrant kids
and what I find...sad is the amount of people who will look at this and then say "Well...it's not a death camp so it's not really a concentration camp!" As if concentration camps all started out as the death machines they became. :sigh:

tulc(

indeed)

Hank77 · Jun 23, 2019

tulc said:
You mean like this: Sexual Assault Of Detained Migrant Children Reported In The Thousands Since 2015
or like this:
Inside a Texas Building Where the Government Is Holding Immigrant Children
or this:
Attorneys: Texas border facility is neglecting migrant kids
and what I find...sad is the amount of people who will look at this and then say "Well...it's not a death camp so it's not really a concentration camp!" As if concentration camps all started out as the death machines they became.
tulc( indeed)

I don't think anyone is saying that there aren't improvements to be made.
Do you have a solution to housing all these people where the same problems won't arise?

Rubiks · Jun 23, 2019

Tree of Life said:
If we reduce the meaning of "concentration camp" to "a camp where people are concentrated" then this might work. But of course that's also highly misleading because of the connotations connected to "concentration camp".

Definition of CONCENTRATION CAMP

For, those who think they changed the definition because of Trump, here is an archive from the same page in 2015:

Definition of concentration camp

Tree of Life · Jun 23, 2019

Rubiks said:
Definition of CONCENTRATION CAMP

For, those who think they changed the definition because of Trump, here is an archive from the same page in 2015:

Definition of concentration camp

Ok so an expert says that these camps are, indeed, places where people are being concentrated?

section9+1 · Jun 23, 2019

I don't know, but are people and charities forbidden to go to these camps and hand out soap and toothbrushes?

Der Alte · Jun 23, 2019

Rubiks said:
....
I'm utterly appalled to see Christians defending this xenophobic clown we have as a president.

What I am appalled at is the irrational hatred that is expressed on a daily basis for our president's every move and word. I think POTUS's marriage to a legal immigrant to this country disqualifies him from being xenophobic.

Hank77 · Jun 23, 2019

Der Alter said:
What I am appalled at is the irrational hatred that is expressed on a daily basis for our president's every move and word. I think POTUS's marriage to a legal immigrant to this country disqualifies him from being xenophobic.

If one can be racist against one race but not another it would be seem that one could xenophobic/fearful of people from some countries but not others.

Blade · Jun 23, 2019

Do you notice people us some words to discribe the border that anyone could go take pictures or video. I cant speak for everywhere.. never been ALL over the border but.. some of those places they HAVE to FORCE (lol) to stay in .. are better then some motels..

Der Alter... AMEN AMEN AMEN! the hate for Trump..

Der Alte · Jun 23, 2019

Hank77 said:
If one can be racist against one race but not another it would be seem that one could xenophobic/fearful of people from some countries but not others.

Yes, let's do that redefine words to make them say what we want them to.
It is very easy to sit anonymously in front of our devices and cast aspersions it is a different thing to actually provide evidence. But we can forget about such niceties if it is Trump.

Hank77 · Jun 23, 2019

Der Alter said:
Yes, let's do that redefine words to make them say what we want them to.
It is very easy to sit anonymously in front of our devices and cast aspersions it is a different thing to actually provide evidence. But we can forget about such niceties if it is Trump.

I didn't say anything about Trump, it's a logical observation that people can be fearful of some foreigners and not others.

tulc · Jun 23, 2019

Didaskalos said:
So to reverse the comparison.
The Jews who were herded into German concentration camps were actually illegal immigrants asking Hitler and the NAZIs for asylum? They came to NAZI Germany seeking a better life for their families?
That is what you think?
Or not?

What I think is many Jews fled Nazi Germany, tried to come to America, were turned away and ended up being butchered by the Nazis in their concentration camps. :wave:

tulc(kind of see's a pattern emerging here) :sigh:

An Expert on Concentration Camps Says That's Exactly What the U.S. Is Running at the Border

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