Is it necessary for a Charismatic of any following to manifest signs?

ByTheSpirit

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So a lot is made about fruit bearing, and giving evidence. I am sure I know how this will turn out, but really just curious for discussion sake. And as a "re-introduction" to the forum, I've been AFK for a bit:

Does a person that follows Charismatic teachings and agrees doctrinally with their respective group need to manifest signs or gifts? Tongues, Healings, Discernment of Spirits, etc.

The point of my question is to really examine if Charismatic groups are/can be a bit elitist and actually cause congregants to display false signs. You know, pressure them so greatly into "if you don't display you aren't one of us" that they fake tongues, or fake a healing, etc.

Then the followup is that the Christlike behavior we are to portray?
 

nanookadenord

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So a lot is made about fruit bearing, and giving evidence. I am sure I know how this will turn out, but really just curious for discussion sake. And as a "re-introduction" to the forum, I've been AFK for a bit:

Does a person that follows Charismatic teachings and agrees doctrinally with their respective group need to manifest signs or gifts? Tongues, Healings, Discernment of Spirits, etc.

The point of my question is to really examine if Charismatic groups are/can be a bit elitist and actually cause congregants to display false signs. You know, pressure them so greatly into "if you don't display you aren't one of us" that they fake tongues, or fake a healing, etc.

Then the followup is that the Christlike behavior we are to portray?

I know one person in this particular section who would say "if you don't display you aren't one of us" and would take it as far as saying you're not following all of Jesus's words.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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I know one person in this particular session who would say "if you don't display you aren't one of us" and would take it as far as saying you're not following all of Jesus's words.

That's the sad reality. I know there are entire groups of Charismatics that preach stuff like that.

Personally, I've attended Pentecostal churches that went so far as to "teach" people how to speak in tongues. I'm not sure how a tongue can be Spirit-led if a person has been taught how to do it.

It just seems errors such as that, no matter how seemingly small, can really open up a person or even a church/group to greater issues.
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Jesus said these signs WILL follow those that believe.
Nothing you can do about it. They will follow.
So if a person isnt manifesting signs, they dont believe?

Which I suppose adds a new question, what signs? In the scripture being referenced, a person should be able to take a snake bite and live. So should we take on the snake Pentecostal doctrine?
 
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SavedByGrace3

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So if a person isnt manifesting signs, they dont believe?

Which I suppose adds a new question, what signs? In the scripture being referenced, a person should be able to take a snake bite and live. So should we take on the snake Pentecostal doctrine?
I am just quoting what Jesus said. Make of it what you will. All I know is that within weeks of being saved I was speaking in tongues, prophesying, having dreams, and eventually laying on hands for healing and casting out devils.
I am not judging anyone's salvation. If you believe the gospel then you are saved.
Don't know what else to say.

Mark 16:17-18 King James Version (KJV)
17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;
18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
 
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nanookadenord

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That's the sad reality. I know there are entire groups of Charismatics that preach stuff like that.

Personally, I've attended Pentecostal churches that went so far as to "teach" people how to speak in tongues. I'm not sure how a tongue can be Spirit-led if a person has been taught how to do it.

It just seems errors such as that, no matter how seemingly small, can really open up a person or even a church/group to greater issues.

Where it says session, it should have been section. I have made the correction.
 
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tturt

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Every believer has a spiritual gift (I Cor 12:7) - not saying it's limited to one though. There's several manifestations of spiritual gifts mentioned in this chapter. Also chapter 14 comes more information including for us to desire spiritual gifts. All the spiritual gifts operate from The Holy Spirit. But He doesn't make us - give our hearts to Him. etc.

Believe that there's a learning curve with them - not that we ever learn everything. Thinking of the disciples that came back and said even the demonic spirits were subject to us in Jesus name. Jesus said yes but ... there was more for them to learn about that.
 
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hislegacy

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The manifestation of the Holy Spirit is not some badge to wear nor boast about.

Our strength or our weakness is a mirror image of our walk with Christ. Our relationship deepens and fruit is natural because we are in the vine.

I've said it once, I’ll say it again, God calls us to be fishers of men, not cleaners of fish.

If you are not fishing, there is no need for bait.
 
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So a lot is made about fruit bearing, and giving evidence. I am sure I know how this will turn out, but really just curious for discussion sake. And as a "re-introduction" to the forum, I've been AFK for a bit:

Does a person that follows Charismatic teachings and agrees doctrinally with their respective group need to manifest signs or gifts? Tongues, Healings, Discernment of Spirits, etc.

No.
These are signs, not fruit, as you said in your opening sentence. If the Lord wants to do them, he will, but they are not compulsory, nor evidence of faith of the Christian.

The point of my question is to really examine if Charismatic groups are/can be a bit elitist and actually cause congregants to display false signs.

I've certainly read about people faking tongues just so that they would be accepted by the group they were in; very sad.

You know, pressure them so greatly into "if you don't display you aren't one of us" that they fake tongues, or fake a healing, etc.

Sounds like that's about control over others - not healthy.
 
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tturt

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Yeshua said look at the signs and wonders "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him." John 10:37-38

"37 If I’m not doing the beautiful works that my Father sent me to do, then don’t believe me.38 But if you see me doing the beautiful works of God upon the earth, then you should at least believe the evidence of the miracles, even if you don’t believe my words! Then you would come to experience me and be convinced that I am in the Father and the Father is in me." Passion translation
 
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Strong in Him

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Yeshua said look at the signs and wonders "If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him." John 10:37-38

He said that to the Pharisees, who didn't believe in him; he was not telling his followers that they have to do signs and wonders to prove their faith.
He said that people would know that we are his disciples by the way that we love one another - John 13:34-35. Love - even for our enemies, Matthew 5:44 - is to be our distinguishing feature.
 
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Strong in Him

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I've said it once, I’ll say it again, God calls us to be fishers of men, not cleaners of fish.

If you are not fishing, there is no need for bait.

Implying that signs and wonders will bring an unbeliever to faith, so if you're not evangelising; don't use them?
There's little evidence of that in Scripture. The plagues of Egypt didn't cause Pharaoh to repent, the miracle of the Red Sea and manna in the wilderness didn't stop the Israelites grumbling and wanting a golden calf made - the Pharisees saw Jesus heal many, and said he did it by the power of the devil. We are not told that Lazarus' raising caused any conversions. If people don't want to believe they'll find other explanations for miracles; if they admit that they are from God and he is real, they might have to do something about His claim on their lives.
 
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hislegacy

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Implying that signs and wonders will bring an unbeliever to faith, so if you're not evangelising; don't use them?

That is the issue using what you think someone is implying.

It’s often mistaken. And brought to the wrong conclusion.

What’s the purpose of the gifts?

Hint you find it in Acts 1
 
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That is the issue using what you think someone is implying.

I wasn't sure what you meant by "if you're not fishing, there's no need for bait".
It sounded like you were saying that if we are not evangelising, there is no need for signs; but I asked, rather than stated that you were saying that.

It’s often mistaken. And brought to the wrong conclusion.

Maybe you could explain what you meant then, because it wasn't clear.
 
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Strong in Him

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What is the purpose for the Power of God -

Acts 1

I don't know what you're asking; sorry.
Acts 1 is the ascension; Jesus was raised from the dead, spent 40 days teaching his disciples and then ascended back to his Father. If you're asking why he did this, it was because he said that when he went away he would send the Holy Spirit to them. They were to wait for the Spirit to come so they could go and be witnesses for Jesus - in his power.
 
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tturt

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Love is important - sorry don't see where it was implied that it isnt.

Jesus, who was talking to believers in Mark 16, said "These miracle signs will accompany those who believe: They will drive out demons in the power of my name. They will speak in tongues. 18 They will be supernaturally protected from snakes and from drinking anything poisonous. And they will lay hands on the sick and heal them.” " ...the apostles went out announcing the good news everywhere, as the Lord himself consistently worked with them, validating the message they preached with miracle-signs that accompanied them!"
 
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Let me be of assistance.

Acts 1:8 But you shall receive power and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

What’s the power for?


To be witnesses.
 
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