A new look at food deserts.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 23, 2019

We had a small grocery store just a few blocks away that we shopped at for some items but when we did our serious shopping to stock the pantry we drove miles to a large Piggly Wiggly supermarket and filled several huge shopping carts with canned and other nonperishable foods. We filled the trunk and back seat with bags and boxes of foods. My grandmother didn't like to freeze meats so these items were purchased fresh from yet another store about a mile away, as we needed them.

When my grandmother went shopping alone she took a cab to an A&P several miles away and also filled a large shopping cart with foods, then a cab brought her home, and the driver helped carry the bags into the house. She would send us kids to the small grocery store for incidental foods. In fact because we passed this store on the way home from school we would phone her from the store to see if she needed anything (we had a charge account at the store so we didn't need to carry money).

My brother had a large basket on his bike and occasionally was called on to fetch more than a few items. He quickly pedaled to the A&P several miles away returning with two large bags of foods that my grandmother had ordered filling the bike's basket.

My grandmother routinely tasked my brother and I to help our elderly neighbors with various chores. Poor neighborhoods today are rich with kids and others that can also be called on to help solve the 'food desert' transportation problem.

(Written amidst waves of nostalgia.)

Rubiks · Jun 23, 2019

Food desert?

OldWiseGuy · Jun 23, 2019

Rubiks said:
Food desert?

If you live more than 1 1/2 miles from a major food store you are said to live in a "food desert" (a wasteland deprived of easily available healthy foods). This is an international problem.

Messerve · Jun 23, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
If you live more than 1 1/2 miles from a major food store you are said to live in a "food desert" (a wasteland deprived of easily available healthy foods). This is an international problem.

So... If you're surrounded by farms, you're still in a food desert? Seems like an oxymoron. ^_^

And my container garden doesn't count either?

OldWiseGuy · Jun 23, 2019

Messerve said:
So... If you're surrounded by farms, you're still in a food desert? Seems like an oxymoron. And my container garden doesn't count either?

Rural areas are indeed classified as food deserts.

Messerve · Jun 23, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
Rural areas are indeed classified as food deserts.

Strange... It's basically a farmer's market without a building. ^_^

Dave-W · Jun 24, 2019

Rubiks said:
Food desert?

Life in a food desert: Elderly Southeast, DC woman struggles to get to nearest supermarket

Dave-W · Jun 24, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
Rural areas are indeed classified as food deserts.

I have only ever heard it applied to urban areas

OldWiseGuy · Jun 24, 2019

Dave-W said:
I have only ever heard it applied to urban areas

Welcome to the food deserts of rural America

OldWiseGuy · Jun 24, 2019

Dave-W said:
Life in a food desert: Elderly Southeast, DC woman struggles to get to nearest supermarket

Perhaps she could take cab. What she would save on food could easily pay for the ride (and there's no extra charge for lugging groceries).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/local/dc-taxi-fare-calculator/

zephcom · Jun 25, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
Welcome to the food deserts of rural America

That pretty much describes where we live. We have five acres just outside a town of 400. There is a single 'market' in town that is slightly larger than the size of fuel station/snack shack. The next town is ten miles away. It has a population of about 4,000 and one 'grocery store' which is the size of a typical 1950's grocery. Seven miles beyond there is a 10,000+ community with a Walmart, a Safeway, a member of the Kroger chain and a pretty large independent market.

It is pretty easy to see where the people with transportation does their primary grocery shopping. We learned quickly when we moved out here to keep a well stocked pantry as well as two 15 cu/ft freezers and two refrigerators filled. And that doesn't include the freeze dried/dehydrated foods we keep stocked for emergencies which might cut off the roads.

When we take the last or next to the last thing out, we add it to the shopping list for the next either of us are in the 'big city'. There is no, 'running to the store to get that one essential ingredient' at the last minute.

When one doesn't 1) have the money to stock food like that or 2) doesn't have the transportation to bring back food whenever they are in the 'big city' one shops at the market in town. They have baking supplies, ice cream, chips, a short fresh vegetable counter, beer, pop, wine, and an old fashioned meat counter with basic meats.

They try, but it really is a limited selection and because of the low traffic, it is expensive. If you don't have transpiration you are likely too poor to shop healthy there.

We are lucky in that while we are in our seventies, we still drive and have the ability to shop elsewhere. If we didn't drive, it is about a mile and a half walk to that 'market' in town.

Yep, food deserts are real and are everywhere in America.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 25, 2019

zephcom said:
That pretty much describes where we live. We have five acres just outside a town of 400. There is a single 'market' in town that is slightly larger than the size of fuel station/snack shack. The next town is ten miles away. It has a population of about 4,000 and one 'grocery store' which is the size of a typical 1050's grocery. Seven miles beyond there is a 10,000+ community with a Walmart, a Safeway, a member of the Kroger chain and a pretty large independent market.

It is pretty easy to see where the people with transportation does their primary grocery shopping. We learned quickly when we moved out here to keep a well stocked pantry as well as two 15 cu/ft freezers and two refrigerators filled. And that doesn't include the freeze dried/dehydrated foods we keep stocked for emergencies which might cut off the roads.

When we take the last or next to the last thing out, we add it to the shopping list for the next either of us are in the 'big city'. There is no, 'running to the store to get that one essential ingredient' at the last minute.

When one doesn't 1) have the money to stock food like that or 2) doesn't have the transportation to bring back food whenever they are in the 'big city' one shops at the market in town. They have baking supplies, ice cream, chips, a short fresh vegetable counter, beer, pop, wine, and an old fashioned meat counter with basic meats.

They try, but it really is a limited selection and because of the low traffic, it is expensive. If you don't have transpiration you are likely too poor to shop healthy there.

We are lucky in that while we are in our seventies, we still drive and have the ability to shop elsewhere. If we didn't drive, it is about a mile and a half walk to that 'market' in town.

Yep, food deserts are real and are everywhere in America.

If I walked to my store and bought a few things it would not much more difficult than the almost daily walks I take. In fact there are no hills to climb going to and from the store.

A small insulated backpack and I'd be good to go.

zephcom · Jun 25, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
If I walked to my store and bought a few things it would not much more difficult than the almost daily walks I take for my health. In fact there are no hills to climb going to and from the store. A small insulated backpack and I'd be good to go.

More than a just a few people are not so lucky.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 26, 2019

zephcom said:
More than a just a few people are not so lucky.

True. But I wonder how many are really adversely affected by those distances.

zephcom · Jun 26, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
True. But I wonder how many are really adversely affected by those distances.

In one way or another, likely nearly everyone.

Take me, for instance. To go to Safeway It is nearly 20 miles each way. In driving time that is about thirty minutes. Including shopping, that takes an hour and half or more. Because I don't like the idea using that much gas and producing pollutants I keep those trips to a minimum and try to bundle shopping with other reasons to be in that town.

That means I have far more of my cash invested in food instead of using it like a true capitalist and investing it in making more cash. It also means I pay a higher electric bill keeping my refrigeration running. I also have to invest in a generator because when the electricity goes out (generally 3-4 times a year) it takes about six hours to get it back. The refrigeration units will hold cold that long but one doesn't want to run the risk that the outage lasts longer. I have been out for three days before.

These are all things city dwellers don't have to put up with. When they 'don't have anything in the house' to eat, they can call take-out or pop down to the corner deli.

For those people who are far less privilege than I am, the hardships of living in a food desert just get worse as their resources get smaller.

Sure, we can all who live out here can pop down to the market and pick up some chips, dip, ice cream and beer. We pay more than all that costs at Safeway. But none of that is healthy (well, the beer is probably healthy). In many ways, we are as adversely impacted as city ghettos, with the exception that many of us have the ability to travel substantial distances to get healthy food.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 26, 2019

zephcom said:
In one way or another, likely nearly everyone.

Take me, for instance. To go to Safeway It is nearly 20 miles each way. In driving time that is about thirty minutes. Including shopping, that takes an hour and half or more. Because I don't like the idea using that much gas and producing pollutants I keep those trips to a minimum and try to bundle shopping with other reasons to be in that town.

That means I have far more of my cash invested in food instead of using it like a true capitalist and investing it in making more cash. It also means I pay a higher electric bill keeping my refrigeration running. I also have to invest in a generator because when the electricity goes out (generally 3-4 times a year) it takes about six hours to get it back. The refrigeration units will hold cold that long but one doesn't want to run the risk that the outage lasts longer. I have been out for three days before.

These are all things city dwellers don't have to put up with. When they 'don't have anything in the house' to eat, they can call take-out or pop down to the corner deli.

For those people who are far less privilege than I am, the hardships of living in a food desert just get worse as their resources get smaller.

Sure, we can all who live out here can pop down to the market and pick up some chips, dip, ice cream and beer. We pay more than all that costs at Safeway. But none of that is healthy (well, the beer is probably healthy). In many ways, we are as adversely impacted as city ghettos, with the exception that many of us have the ability to travel substantial distances to get healthy food.

The whole concept of food deserts suggests being severely impacted by those distances.

Based on what you have said here I would say that you are not severely impacted by those distances. Many who live in the country also work in nearby towns. I did for several years. In fact I worked in a small town grocery store as a meat cutter. Several of my co-workers also lived on small farms several miles from the town. It just part of country living.

zephcom · Jun 26, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
Based on this I would say that you are not severely impacted by those distances. Many who live in the country also work in nearby towns. I did for several years. In fact I worked in a small town grocery store as a meat cutter. Several of my co-workers also lived on small farms several miles from the town. It just part of country living.

You did not specify 'severely' impacted in your previous post. Moving the goal posts just to make you look right isn't fair.

There are adverse issues which need to be dealt with when one lives in a food desert. Those adverse issues range from minor to health damaging depending on an individual's financial and health conditions. I'm not attempting to claim 'severe' issues for my situation. But I also recognize that M'Lady and myself are much better situated than others.

I have a friend who lives on a few acres outside of town. His only income is SS and odd jobs. He is seventy years old and drives daily to the grocery store ten miles from here to pick up a 30 gallon barrel of discarded vegetables for his pigs (he raises 3-4 pigs for himself and to sell to pay the butchering cost). He goes through the barrel and pulls out veggies for himself, his family and friends.

He also drives the whole 20 miles to the 'day old' bread store and buys in bulk the bakery stuff that is too old for even them to sell. The same distribution happens to that before the pigs are fed.

Where I live is a county recognized by government as 'poverty stricken'. If it were a wealthy enclave a town the size of ours would already have a decent grocery store to serve the area.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 26, 2019

zephcom said:
You did not specify 'severely' impacted in your previous post. Moving the goal posts just to make you look right isn't fair.

There are adverse issues which need to be dealt with when one lives in a food desert. Those adverse issues range from minor to health damaging depending on an individual's financial and health conditions. I'm not attempting to claim 'severe' issues for my situation. But I also recognize that M'Lady and myself are much better situated than others.

I have a friend who lives on a few acres outside of town. His only income is SS and odd jobs. He is seventy years old and drives daily to the grocery store ten miles from here to pick up a 30 gallon barrel of discarded vegetables for his pigs (he raises 3-4 pigs for himself and to sell to pay the butchering cost). He goes through the barrel and pulls out veggies for himself, his family and friends.

He also drives the whole 20 miles to the 'day old' bread store and buys in bulk the bakery stuff that is too old for even them to sell. The same distribution happens to that before the pigs are fed.

Where I live is a county recognized by government as 'poverty stricken'. If it were a wealthy enclave a town the size of ours would already have a decent grocery store to serve the area.

I'm sure not everyone is as severely impacted as your friend. In any case one can always move into these small towns. Housing is usually quite affordable.

Mauston, WI Real Estate - Mauston Homes for Sale - realtor.com®

Lots of nice homes priced below $100,000, low taxes as well. Mauston, WI is a small city, population around 3500. I posted Mauston info because I'm considering retiring there. I had relatives there years ago who we visited when I was a kid, several of whom moved there because of the low cost of living.

They have a "Festival Foods" store there as well.

OldWiseGuy · Jun 26, 2019

Messerve said:
So... If you're surrounded by farms, you're still in a food desert? Seems like an oxymoron. And my container garden doesn't count either?

You can only choke down so much field corn (and alfalfa). ^_^

Messerve · Jun 27, 2019

OldWiseGuy said:
You can only choke down so much field corn (and alfalfa).

Cows don't seem to care. They just keep on eating. ^_^

A new look at food deserts.

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