Discussion The content of Romans 7

Gregory Thompson · Jun 6, 2019

I was in another thread and someone was posting that the sin nature was not something Christians had. Of course, I disagreed, so I started a new thread.

The first reason I disagree is because I am born again by the Holy Spirit, and my body as a separate entity that is like an earthly tent, still has sinful thoughts, impulses, etc. I find to ignore it like it's not there, is unhealthy, so I started a thread to discuss the content of Romans 7.

Another point of disagreement is the interpretation of
8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I see Romans 7 (leading up to 8:1) illustrating the consciousness that is generated from the body from the old person we were before being born again. Since we were not given new bodies, just a new spirit, there's a conflict. Romans 8:1 with the whole verse there, (not just half) illustrates the choice to live according to the Holy Spirit or the consciousness the physical body generates. And we kind of reap what we sow right?

Since when I read something like this and get frustrated that there's no application involved, I'd suggest 1 John 1:9 for dealing with the sin.

In terms of dealing with witchcraft once the body gets "wifi capabilities" metaphorically, 1 John 1:9 works when it's just sin, but if the sin matures to death or worse status, that's another discussion altogether.

So anyway, this is a discussion on Romans 7 and it's context, you can use the whole bible if you want. And feel free to speak of your own experience as well.

God bless.

Alithis · Jun 6, 2019

Makes me want to sigh..
There is so much immaturity around these topics.
There is no romans chapter 7. in pauls mind.
He wrote a letter..as a whole.chapters were added by men just about 500 years ago.

But since there is much immaturity surrounding the topic i Will speak of it immaturilly ...

My spirit was dead.
My flesh and carnal nature ruled my mind.
My mind slaved to seek out means to appease the insatiable desires of my flesh.

JESUS came .. Upon hearing the good news of him i took the oppurtunity he gifted me, to repent .
He forgave me.
I got baptised in water thus burying the old and God destroyed the power of sin in my life.
He put his Holy Spirit of life in me and made my spirit alive together with him.
Now i am FREE to choose which to follow.
If i follow the evil desires of my flesh i will commit sin and if i continue to do so then Sin will master me and i will perish in my sin. Sin brings death.
if i follow after the desire of the incorruptible Holy spirit..in me i will commit righteousness and as i continue to do so it results in everlasting life.

Its pretty simple .and hey..its in the bible too .
So.when and if my carnal side desires to sin i say to it
NO.. I will not even entertain the thought or even the inkling of the thought of doing sin.
I take captive that thought , pull it down and demolish it .because iv been give strong and mighty weapons to do so.
I say to my carnal desire... " I recken your dead" so shut up .you are dead to me .

Then i Go and Obey the Holy Spirit and rejoice in Christ Jesus who set me free...

.

1stcenturylady · Jun 6, 2019

Michael Collum said:
I was in another thread and someone was posting that the sin nature was not something Christians had. Of course, I disagreed, so I started a new thread.

The first reason I disagree is because I am born again by the Holy Spirit, and my body as a separate entity that is like an earthly tent, still has sinful thoughts, impulses, etc. I find to ignore it like it's not there, is unhealthy, so I started a thread to discuss the content of Romans 7.

Another point of disagreement is the interpretation of
8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I see Romans 7 (leading up to 8:1) illustrating the consciousness that is generated from the body from the old person we were before being born again. Since we were not given new bodies, just a new spirit, there's a conflict. Romans 8:1 with the whole verse there, (not just half) illustrates the choice to live according to the Holy Spirit or the consciousness the physical body generates. And we kind of reap what we sow right?

Since when I read something like this and get frustrated that there's no application involved, I'd suggest 1 John 1:9 for dealing with the sin.

In terms of dealing with witchcraft once the body gets "wifi capabilities" metaphorically, 1 John 1:9 works when it's just sin, but if the sin matures to death or worse status, that's another discussion altogether.

So anyway, this is a discussion on Romans 7 and it's context, you can use the whole bible if you want. And feel free to speak of your own experience as well.

God bless.

There will always be those forever learning, but never coming to a knowledge of the truth. I'm going to leave this thread to see just how many on the forum believe Romans 7 is describing a true Christian with the Spirit of God in them (the only kind), that only comes through Jesus. Good luck, Michael. You will probably win, because there is a whole abundance of false teaching out there for itching ears to follow. Can you go back and add a poll? :idea:

13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.

21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Phil W · Jun 6, 2019

Michael Collum said:
I was in another thread and someone was posting that the sin nature was not something Christians had. Of course, I disagreed, so I started a new thread.
The first reason I disagree is because I am born again by the Holy Spirit, and my body as a separate entity that is like an earthly tent, still has sinful thoughts, impulses, etc. I find to ignore it like it's not there, is unhealthy, so I started a thread to discuss the content of Romans 7.

The first few verses of Ro 7 clearly show that it is speaking of a former time. Verse 5..."For when we WERE in the flesh..."
The entire middle of Ro 7 is about Paul's former life as a Pharisee; trying to live the Mosaic Law, but failing. And again, a reference to the past in verse 18; (“that is, in my flesh”).
And the end, especially verse 23; "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to THE LAW OF SIN which is in my members."...points again to a former time. Because....
we read in Romans 8:2...."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from THE LAW OF SIN and death.
Why would Paul still be subject to something he is free of?
If you could see the truth of Ro 7, and its proximity to Ro 6, which speaks of baptism and the death of the flesh, you would see that Paul is making the past-present transition, and Ro 8 continues on into the life walked in the Spirit.

Another point of disagreement is the interpretation of
8:1 ¶ There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

I see Romans 7 (leading up to 8:1) illustrating the consciousness that is generated from the body from the old person we were before being born again. Since we were not given new bodies, just a new spirit, there's a conflict. Romans 8:1 with the whole verse there, (not just half) illustrates the choice to live according to the Holy Spirit or the consciousness the physical body generates. And we kind of reap what we sow right?
God bless.

If you are reborn, it's not YOUR body anymore; it is Christ's to use as He sees fit.
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
Your "old person" is dead and buried. (Rom 6:6)
Your "new person" has been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
Walk in the Spirit INSTEAD of in the flesh.

1stcenturylady · Jun 6, 2019

Phil W said:
The first few verses of Ro 7 clearly show that it is speaking of a former time. Verse 5..."For when we WERE in the flesh..."
The entire middle of Ro 7 is about Paul's former life as a Pharisee; trying to live the Mosaic Law, but failing. And again, a reference to the past in verse 18; (“that is, in my flesh”).
And the end, especially verse 23; "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to THE LAW OF SIN which is in my members."...points again to a former time. Because....
we read in Romans 8:2...."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from THE LAW OF SIN and death.
Why would Paul still be subject to something he is free of?
If you could see the truth of Ro 7, and its proximity to Ro 6, which speaks of baptism and the death of the flesh, you would see that Paul is making the past-present transition, and Ro 8 continues on into the life walked in the Spirit.

If you are reborn, it's not YOUR body anymore; it is Christ's to use as He sees fit.
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
Your "old person" is dead and buried. (Rom 6:6)
Your "new person" has been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
Walk in the Spirit INSTEAD of in the flesh.

Yay! Someone who knows how to read English!!!!

Gregory Thompson · Jun 6, 2019

Phil W said:
The first few verses of Ro 7 clearly show that it is speaking of a former time. Verse 5..."For when we WERE in the flesh..."
The entire middle of Ro 7 is about Paul's former life as a Pharisee; trying to live the Mosaic Law, but failing. And again, a reference to the past in verse 18; (“that is, in my flesh”).
And the end, especially verse 23; "But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to THE LAW OF SIN which is in my members."...points again to a former time. Because....
we read in Romans 8:2...."For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from THE LAW OF SIN and death.
Why would Paul still be subject to something he is free of?
If you could see the truth of Ro 7, and its proximity to Ro 6, which speaks of baptism and the death of the flesh, you would see that Paul is making the past-present transition, and Ro 8 continues on into the life walked in the Spirit.

If you are reborn, it's not YOUR body anymore; it is Christ's to use as He sees fit.
"I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me." (Gal 2:20)
Your "old person" is dead and buried. (Rom 6:6)
Your "new person" has been raised with Christ to walk in newness of life. (Rom 6:4)
Walk in the Spirit INSTEAD of in the flesh.

I read this theology, but am not sure how that applies to actual Christians who still walk around in a body that wasn't buried and acts like it doesn't have rigor mortis.

1stcenturylady · Jun 6, 2019

Michael Collum said:
I read this theology, but am not sure how that applies to actual Christians who still walk around in a body that wasn't buried and acts like it doesn't have rigor mortis.

No such thing as someone calling themselves a Christian, yet not born again.

Gregory Thompson · Jun 6, 2019

1stcenturylady said:
No such thing as someone calling themselves a Christian, yet not born again.

Not sure what you mean, I got attacked by a witch today who was using projection attacks. So implications of any nature really don't figure in logically at the moment.

1stcenturylady · Jun 6, 2019

Phil W · Jun 6, 2019

Michael Collum said:
I read this theology, but am not sure how that applies to actual Christians who still walk around in a body that wasn't buried and acts like it doesn't have rigor mortis.

You are describing those without faith in the truth of Romans 6:3-6.
They haven't yet crucified the flesh, with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
Without the death of the "old man", there can be no "new creature". (2 Cor 5:17)

Gregory Thompson · Jun 7, 2019

Phil W said:
You are describing those without faith in the truth of Romans 6:3-6.
They haven't yet crucified the flesh, with the affections and lusts. (Gal 5:24)
Without the death of the "old man", there can be no "new creature". (2 Cor 5:17)

No, I think it's just that I don't subscribe to pentecostal theology, thanks tho.

1stcenturylady · Jun 7, 2019

Michael Collum said:
No, I think it's just that I don't subscribe to pentecostal theology, thanks tho.

Talking about the sin nature has nothing to do with "pentecostal" theology, it is just Scripture, and should be universal. What is your foundation? Comic books?

Phil W · Jun 7, 2019

Michael Collum said:
No, I think it's just that I don't subscribe to pentecostal theology, thanks tho.

Did pentecostals write the words?

SavedByGrace3 · Jun 22, 2019

My understanding is that Romans 7 is the meditation of a pre-born again Jew who desires to keep the law but cannot. The law is having it's intended effect, being the revealing to the individual his sinful nature and need for a savior.
Even after the new birth is effected, we have the flesh and unrenewed mind to contend with. This goes on for the rest of your life. I often tell listeners that on the last day of my life... hopefully many years from now, I will be confessing the sin that inhabits my flesh and mind, and receiving forgiveness from my faithful and just Lord. Yes, the new creature within is without sin. But the lust of the flesh is manifest.
This is the normal Christians walk. The normal Christian life.

Phil W · Jun 22, 2019

Didaskalos said:
My understanding is that Romans 7 is the meditation of a pre-born again Jew who desires to keep the law but cannot. The law is having it's intended effect, being the revealing to the individual his sinful nature and need for a savior.

What do you mean by "the mediation"?

Even after the new birth is effected, we have the flesh and unrenewed mind to contend with. This goes on for the rest of your life. I often tell listeners that on the last day of my life...

This sounds like Paul's lament in Rom 7:24..."O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?"
But he answers his own question in the next verse..."I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord."
Why does he thank God for his deliverance?
Because he had just finished writing of the old man's death in Romans 6:6-7..."Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
For he that is dead is freed from sin."

hopefully many years from now, I will be confessing the sin that inhabits my flesh and mind, and receiving forgiveness from my faithful and just Lord. Yes, the new creature within is without sin. But the lust of the flesh is manifest.

I've got good news for you.
It is written..."And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts." (Gal 5:24)
You don't have to keep committing sin till death.
Kill the old man, bury him, and be raised with Christ as a new man! (Rom 6:3-7)
Be the new creature of 2 Cor 5:17!..."Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

This is the normal Christians walk. The normal Christian life.

I am glad I don't share your POV.
My "normal" doesn't include sin...thanks be to God.

johnjanuary1984 · Feb 17, 2022

I don't understand how a Christian can fool themselves into thinking they don't sin.

So some people believe a true Christian never sins ??? Wow!!! Just wow!

I believe Romans 7 proves that everyone struggles with their old Adam/sinful nature.

"For the sinful flesh desires what is contrary to the spirit, and the spirit what is contrary to the sinful flesh. In fact, these two continually oppose one another, so that you do not continue to do these things you want to do.". Galatians 5:17

Discussion The content of Romans 7

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Jesus is Lord of ALL! (Not asking permission)

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