Trump Administration argues against basic needs for detain children

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Ringo84

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That may be because Nazi-like behavior, such as packing people into camps and neglecting them there, tends to be more common in one segment of the political scene than the other.
Ringo
 
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Ana the Ist

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Ah, yes. The national emergency.... The emergency was declared because Trump realized he wasn't going to get his wall. Not out of a heartfelt concern for the migrants coming over. Remember, these aren't their best people. They're "rapists and murderers" according to candidate and then President Trump. He got nothing done on this front save for a few wall swatches early on for PR and then suddenly when the Democrats took office he shutdown the government over funding for his wall he himself turned down earlier in his presidency. The only reason he stopped the shutdown he caused was because he wasn't going to give his SOTU speech. Once he saw his SOTU speech convinced no one of anything, he suddenly declares it an emergency.

And again, this was done mainly to get funding for his wall. That's cinder blocks, concrete and rebar. Not toothbrushes and soap.

I get that by the end....the wall was a misunderstood issue. I get that once you bought into the lies you were told, you may have genuinely believed it was really all about Trump's ego. So let's be clear...the wall was proposed to address a problem.

The problem is too many people illegally crossing the border. It isn't toothbrushes and soap. That's a symptom of the problem. If you don't address the problem, then the symptoms will just change.

I'm not going to argue about how effective the wall would be....because that's neither here nor there anymore. You need to demonstrate that you understand the problem before there's any point in discussing solutions.

I get what you're saying. It costs a lot of money to keep people in State custody. I get that. Obviously the goal should be to reduce to number of people in our custody and costs and stresses on the system will go down but the fact is, these people are here and they are wards of the state until something is done about them and until then, we have a responsibility to provide the very most basic elements of sanitation.

I agree with you....and if I wasn't aware that this issue has been steadily growing for years now....I'd 100% agree that the solution here is to just buy the supplies and resources needed.

The thing is though, unless we address the problem, we have every reason to believe that we'll be right back in this situation soon. What if next year there's a 200% increase in the number of people? Is the solution to just keep throwing money at the problem and hope it doesn't get worse?

We have every reason to believe that the number of people trying to enter illegally will generally just increase. This is the time to address the problem.


Nonsense. The left trying to address the problem does not mean give the president billions of dollars for his wall. That doesn't address the problem, it puts a bandaid on it.

Toothbrushes and soap are a band-aid. If I could point to a real proposal to the problem that came from the left, I'd agree with you. That didn't happen though....they ignored the problem.

That does nothing to help the people already in our custody and wont stop the flood of people on their way for years to come while it is being built. The president and Senate have both shutdown Democratic proposals to address the problem mainly because this issue plays well with their base. If you believe the Democrats are playing politics with this issue, why wouldn't you assume the Republicans are as well?

What Democratic proposals? I looked and I can't find 1...not 1. The closest thing is a very generalized response that we should somehow "fix" the nations people are fleeing....but no real explanation of how that is done or understanding that we can't possibly fix every failed nation.

The only people making proposals are on the right...and I get the left may not agree, but if they don't have a counter-proposal then they are to blame. They've only stood in the way of solutions.


They turn down staying in Mexico because the fact is, Mexico isn't any better for them than Honduras or Guatemala were. Mainly because of the drug cartels that run that country, because of the business they do with their neighbors to the north. The United States.

Can you show me where any of them actually said that?

This isn't an easy issue for any country to address on its own but the one country who stands the most chance at addressing it happens to also be the one that's mainly the cause of this entire mess.

What are you talking about?

You don't think I believe the president is responsible for things that happen in the United States? He's to blame, not just because he wanted to take up the mantle of leader but also because his administration has done everything in its power to politicize the issue because again, politics is being played on both sides. A government shutdown and a few tweets about an emergency at the border while at the same time shutting down talks with congressional leaders trying to address the problem is not indicative of someone who is trying to help the situation.

What congressional leaders came to him with a solution? You've had three heads of the same agency tasked with dealing with this mess all say the exact same thing.

The problem is our laws incentivize people bringing a child and claiming asylum. They effectively sidestep the entire immigration process and get released into the US. It's the same problem as it was 2+ years ago.

Yeah, and I still think he oversold the emergency. That's why they're letting things get out of hand.

He asked for emergency funding 2 months ago and Democrats are just now responding. He tried to sidestep them in February to get emergency funding and they used the courts to shut him down. If you want to go back further, he ran on the idea that this is a problem and they disagreed.

There's really no way to admit this is a problem now without admitting he was right the entire time.

If you saw a tiny ember burning and declared it an emergency fire then but also do nothing to put it out and let it grow and grow because you can then lay the blame at others, you're kind of an arsonist. Did you start the fire? No but you also didn't put it out when you had a chance.

Do nothing to put it out???? He tried to build physical barriers to entering the US illegally. He tried at least twice to use executive powers to change the laws to remove the incentive to come illegally. He tried to work with, and threaten, foreign nations to help with the problem and was mocked for it.

Who else has tried to address the issue? I know AOC proposed we just allow anyone of latino descent in....but that's not a solution. That just increases the number of people.

I'm not really interested in what you believe about my concerns for asylum seekers in our custody. I blame the president because this is probably the single issue that got him elected and he has, as far as I can tell, let this problem grow over the last three years while he could have done something to address it instead of building wall swatches in San Diego. What a coincidence that we have an election coming up and he now has opposition in the House and suddenly it's a four alarm fire he needs to put out.

You blame him because it's hard to admit you were wrong. The Democrats don't do anything because not only is it hard for them to admit they were wrong....their jobs are at stake. If you don't want to hold them accountable, then the problem will not be fixed.
 
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Albion

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That may be because Nazi-like behavior, such as packing people into camps and neglecting them there, tends to be more common in one segment of the political scene than the other.
Ringo
I am glad that, on the point we had been discussing, we agree. It isn't always that way.
 
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Pommer

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I honestly believe wholeheartedly that Democrats are the problem. Once they ARE removed and replaced there will be no longer be a problem. this is entirely a political ploy and I hope people go to prison over it.
Prison seems to be a “feature” in this view.

Children being in prison aren’t being care of by the Administration that put them there, but it’s Democrats whom need “locking up”?

 
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LostMarbels

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How can democrats be to blame for the actions of the Trump administration?

They're not. same time it could be said they're not dealing with reality of the actual situation. Instead they're either conflating or making new situations that are than imposed and or blamed on the Trump administration. The current Democrats in office only focus is obstructing Donald Trump. even if that means bringing these children into harm's way they will do anything to get rid of trump.

You think that treating children worse than we do literal terrorists is a good idea?

you think that smashing kittens heads with hammers is a good thing?

so you see how easy a question can become insinuation?



The laws are the laws.

If you want to change the laws you're going to have to make deals with people who disagree with you.

Deals require a two-way street.
 
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variant

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They're not. same time it could be said they're not dealing with reality of the actual situation. Instead they're either conflating or making new situations that are than imposed and or blamed on the Trump administration. The current Democrats in office only focus is obstructing Donald Trump. even if that means bringing these children into harm's way they will do anything to get rid of trump.

That's their right. No one however is making Trump mistreat children except Trump.

you think that smashing kittens heads with hammers is a good thing?

so you see how easy a question can become insinuation?

It's what we're actually discussing here. Treating children with less creature comfort than literal terrorists.

Deals require a two-way street.

Yeah. Only one side has decided that they are going to not bend at all. What has the trump administration offered up that the Democrats actually want?
 
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LostMarbels

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Prison seems to be a “feature” in this view.

Children being in prison aren’t being care of by the Administration that put them there, but it’s Democrats whom need “locking up”?
these people are here because every attempt at stopping them from entering our border has been opposed. Including aid in their countries so they didn't have to come to our country. The same could be said by having these individuals stay in other countries so they did not have to enter ours.

Our current immigration system is taxed beyond breaking. The infastructure is not set up for such an influx that we are presently seeing. That means there's a deficit in all the services that can be rendered. by forcing us to continue to accept more and more and more and more and more people that we cannot take care of his forces in this situation.

The other reason to this, is they're not coming here for sanctuary. they're coming here for all the freebies and sanctuary cities that the Democrats have to offer. they're going through many sanctuary countries where they can get protection food and aid without having to March all the way to America. They're coming to America to get jobs food and other incentives.
 
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Ringo84

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I am glad that, on the point we had been discussing, we agree. It isn't always that way.

Glad to see that you agree that Republicans are acting like Nazis.

Our current immigration system is taxed beyond breaking. The infastructure is not set up for such an influx that we are presently seeing. That means there's a deficit in all the services that can be rendered. by forcing us to continue to accept more and more and more and more and more people that we cannot take care of his forces in this situation.

Nope. Border crossings are down and have been long before Donny took office.

Also, neglecting children in death camps is not a "lack of services" or supplies; it's wanton cruelty.

they're going through many sanctuary countries where they can get protection food and aid without having to March all the way to America. They're coming to America to get jobs food and other incentives.

Only in 2019 America would fleeing to a country for jobs and opportunity somehow be twisted as "bad".

I guess I just don't share the revulsion you seem to expect from the news that "those people" might be receiving benefits and help.
Ringo
 
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LostMarbels

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That may be because Nazi-like behavior, such as packing people into camps and neglecting them there, tends to be more common in one segment of the political scene than the other.
Ringo

No one is herding illegal immigrants into gas Chambers. Seriously get over this stupid ad hominem rant.

That is absolutely offensive beyond belief and I cannot believe you're just allowed to repeat it over and over again. no one wants to kill illegal immigrants as part of a final solution get it through your head. That is absolutely sick!

What do you want done? We're supposed to just release them right? Just allow them to go right into the country? and because we don't want to allow that to happen now we're Nazis. stop letting such a large influx of them coming into our country and they won't have to be detained. Simple logic.
 
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Speedwell

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they're going through many sanctuary countries where they can get protection food and aid without having to March all the way to America. They're coming to America to get jobs food and other incentives.
They're only coming through Mexico, and Mexico is in fact keeping some of them.

But the fact of the matter is, whenever children are taken into custody, they are due a certain standard of safety, hygiene and care. It doesn't matter whether they have committed a crime or not, or whether their parents have committed a crime or not, or whether they were being treated decently before they were taken into custody. If they are detained in custody they must be treated humanely. Saying, "It serves the parents right for bringing them here illegally" or "We can't afford it," or "The Democrats made us do it" are not excuses for inhumane treatment.
 
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Ringo84

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No one is herding illegal immigrants into gas Chambers. Seriously get over this stupid ad hominem rant.

That is absolutely offensive beyond belief and I cannot believe you're just allowed to repeat it over and over again. no one wants to kill illegal immigrants as part of a final solution get it through your head. That is absolutely sick!

What do you want done? We're supposed to just release them right? Just allow them to go right into the country? and because we don't want to allow that to happen now we're Nazis. stop letting such a large influx of them coming into our country and they won't have to be detained. Simple logic.

I truly don't care if you're uncomfortable with the fact that I'm calling these camps what they are - concentration camps. No gas chambers disguised as showers are required for a camp to be a death camp when you hold children in poorly-run, neglectful facilities and leave them there to rot.

If you're uncomfortable, then good. Maybe that will shake some sense - and more importantly, some humanity - into you.

Don't want to be called a Nazi? Don't act like one. That's the first step. I've no sympathy for your whining and complaining.
Ringo
 
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Speedwell

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What do you want done? We're supposed to just release them right? Just allow them to go right into the country? and because we don't want to allow that to happen now we're Nazis. stop letting such a large influx of them coming into our country and they won't have to be detained. Simple logic.
They're children. I want them to be treated humanely. They should be treated at least as humanely as domestic juvenile delinquents who we lock up for committing crimes, which we are not doing now.
 
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Ana the Ist

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But THIS thread is about the DOJ going to court to get out of giving basic sanitary supplies to detained children that has been the expected minimum of care per a federal law.

It would help if folks bothered to READ the thread and then stay on topic.





IF you bother to read the OP and the thread and see what the topic is, then it is easier to address that topic and not bring other stuff up in a hysterical way.

Whoa....

I understand the article presented things a certain way. I understand it's about a case regarding inhumane conditions.

I actually read the article before I saw the thread. I also read other articles on illegals suing various agencies over inhumane conditions. I can link them if you want, but I thought it was obvious that they are all facing inhumane conditions. It's not as if this is an isolated incident and it's all unrelated.

Are you saying that any examination of the causes of this situation....any attempt to understand how or why it's happening is off topic???

It's not as if I'm bringing up unrelated points. I'm posting about the causes of this crisis and all the attempts made to stop it.
 
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Ringo84

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Many people in this thread seem to expect us to feel the same revulsion for scary brown children living among us "clean", lily-white Americans as they apparently feel.

I do want them to be "just released". It's fine for the government to keep track of who they are, but I see no legitimate reason why they have to be held - in concentration camps or elsewhere - at all. Most immigrants awaiting a hearing return for court because - surprise, surprise: they want to do what they have to do to get citizenship or a visa.

The fact that these human rights abuses don't have to happen at all is a testament to how sociopathic the current administration has been in the area of immigration.

Isaiah 5:20 said:
Woe to those who call evil good and good evil
Ringo
 
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LostMarbels

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They're only coming through Mexico, and Mexico is in fact keeping some of them.

But the fact of the matter is, whenever children are taken into custody, they are due a certain standard of safety, hygiene and care. It doesn't matter whether they have committed a crime or not, or whether their parents have committed a crime or not, or whether they were being treated decently before they were taken into custody. If they are detained in custody they must be treated humanely. Saying, "It serves the parents right for bringing them here illegally" or "We can't afford it," or "The Democrats made us do it" are not excuses for inhumane treatment.
it has nothing to do with crimes I don't know who brought that up but it wasn't me. Our system is purposely being over burden so it will burst and forced Trump to bring these people in. This is a political ploy to stop Trump from curbing illegal immigration. And the children are being used as proof as some kind of evil intent. There are too many people in the system to be properly taken care of. The actual epidemic needs to be addressed instead of just a bunch of symptoms
 
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LostMarbels

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They're children. I want them to be treated humanely. They should be treated at least as humanely as domestic juvenile delinquents who we lock up for committing crimes, which we are not doing now.

Our system was not designed to take on this influx of people. Either the laws or the infrastructure or both has to be changed. By refusing to stem the tide of people illegally entering this country the Democrats are exacerbating the situation. They simply refuse to stop letting these people in. They obstruct every attempt made by this administration to remedy the situation.
 
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Ringo84

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You're full of excuses today - "Well, the system is overburdened!" (citation needed, of course).

As others have already pointed out: that's not an excuse for the way these people are being treated.
Ringo
 
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Speedwell

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it has nothing to do with crimes I don't know who brought that up but it wasn't me. Our system is purposely being over burden so it will burst and forced Trump to bring these people in. This is a political ploy to stop Trump from curbing illegal immigration. And the children are being used as proof as some kind of evil intent. There are too many people in the system to be properly taken care of. The actual epidemic needs to be addressed instead of just a bunch of symptoms
Wrong. Absolutely wrong and disgusting. There is no excuse for treating children inhumanely. If children are being treated inhumanely in government custody then the resources must be found to improve their treatment. Inhumane treatment of children is an emergency which must be dealt with, whatever steps are being otherwise taken (or not taken) to solve the problem of amnesty seekers.
 
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LostMarbels

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What is going on is literally they're trying to force and or push their way through the system. they want to make it so hard and seem so horrible that he must be forced to allow them to come in the country and it's not going to happen. We as a country need some kind of aid or support to handle this many people. Either need to stop them from coming in or you need to give us the funds to detain them properly
 
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Ringo84

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they're trying to force and or push their way through the system.

Citation needed.

give us the funds to detain them properly

Nope.

Why do they need to be detained at all?
Ringo
 
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