Trump Administration argues against basic needs for detain children

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Albion

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How is it that the funding is there for a round up but it isn't there to manage and appropriately maintain the individuals who are brought in by the roundup? What's the point in doing a "round up" if you KNOW you CANNOT adequately care for them?
Ask Congress. But you know that if anything were done to make the border more manageable, some voters might be consider it an accomplishment of the president, so....

Nope. All I want is for them to prioritize some freakin' soap, tooth brushes, maybe a blanket and, in time, perhaps even a cot.
Over a quarter of a million illegal immigrants have crossed the border this year. About 40% of the border patrol agents are being used to chauffer illegals to new locations and others have to try to process the amnesty claims of those immigrants we know about, but sure, toothbrushes should be the #1 priority. (!)
 
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Hammster

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This AP article is eye-opening!

Migrant Children Describe Neglect, Mistreatment At Texas Border Facility | HuffPost

Lawyers warn that kids are taking care of kids, and there’s inadequate food, water and sanitation for the 250 infants, children and teens at the Border Patrol station.
This is child abuse.
I’m in no way defending the Trump Administration in this instance. But at what point are the parents going to be held accountable for this? If I knowingly commit a crime with my kids in tow, am I not also responsible for for the consequences of that action?
 
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FreeinChrist

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With what???? You understand what a budget is, right? Well they're budgeted for 600% less traffic than they have.

It's not hard to understand...imagine every school in your state suddenly had a 500% increase in enrollment. Imagine your hospital had 500% more emergency patients than it had capacity for....every month.

What you're asking for doesn't exist. It's used up. This situation was created by people not wanting to address the problem.

Trump wanted money for a border wall, where instead money could have been allocated earlier for handling the folks coming for asylum, fleeing violence. It is not a new problem as there have been influxes before, like in 2014. The Senate has a bill for more funding but it is not focused on the migrants. The House has passed a bill for the money the head of Border Control wants, with the restriction being that it is for providing basic needs for the migrants, and not a border wall and such.


They have....they did....it's used up.

Migrants From El Paso Shelter Likely Headed to Dallas

Now they're trying to arrange space in the interior and ship them there.
That is a start. Now increased funding needs to come from the congress. The Senate needs to pass the House bill that passed.

If you can show me where they say toothbrushes and showers, I'll agree.

Let's be clear though...these facilities were built to hold adults for 72 hours or less. Imagine what your local police station has...and you get the idea. We can't magic up showers, toilets, nannies, or extra on site medical care where it doesn't exist. If you want these things built....email your congressman and demand they increase your taxes and build them. You might see this addressed 6 months to a year from now.

The government had been providing them for longer staying immigrants (in detention) because it was understood as being part of the 'safe and sanitary environment' mandated by federal law, as already stated.


What are they supposed to do if every dime is accounted for??? You saw the article....they're asking for an extra 1.1 billion in emergency funds. You do realize they were allocated billions extra already this year, right?
But it was allocated for building a wall mostly, and other security issues.


You cannot be this naive. You have articles talking about 5 and 6 year old unaccompanied children. They didn't decide to seek asylum and come to the US....they were brought by adults who aren't their family so those adults can get a free ticket inside.
First, stop trying to make this about me. This is not the first time in this thread. Stop trying to make it personal Ana the 1st.

We don't know they were brought by folks other than their parents. Where is the proof. Lots of folks in those countries do not have papers because much is not on computers. They are archaic. In several articles I saw, the parent was a teen girl there with the child, and both needed basic health and a safe and sanitary environment while awaiting to be seen by an immigration judge.


Ok....I'll try this a different way....

I get it. You don't want to turn away hungry poor uneducated people....especially children. You know what? I don't either. I'd like it if every problem in life had a morally acceptable solution....that's not reality though.

The truth is, according to the same guy from DHS, 90% of families seeking asylum....don't show up for their hearing. Of those who do...the one's from the nations crossing our borders now are rejected at abnormally high levels. I'm talking about something like 80% (though I don't remember exactly, but I can probably find the numbers if you need me to). That's not a large group of people seeking asylum....it's a large group of people engaging in fraud.
That is not correct.
Majority of undocumented immigrants show up for court
According to Justice Department data from the last five available years, around 60 to 75 percent of non-detained migrants have attended their immigration court proceedings. That’s determined by subtracting the percentage of judgments entered against migrants in their absence (known as an in absentia ruling) from total judgments entered.​

But what about asylum seekers? The same article shows they show up at much higher numbers.

Before the Trump administration ended the program in June, participants had a 100 percent attendance record at court hearings. They also had a 99 percent rate of check-ins and appointments with Immigration and Customs Enforcement, according to a Department of Homeland Security Office of Inspector General report.

"According to ICE, overall program compliance for all five regions is an average of 99 percent for ICE check-ins and appointments, as well as 100 percent attendance at court hearings," the report said. "Since the inception of FCMP, 23 out of 954 participants (2 percent) were reported as absconders."

In 2015, the immigration advocacy group American Immigration Council published a report that looked at studies from over the previous two decades that examined how well asylum seekers fulfilled their legal obligations. It found studies showed "very high rates of compliance with proceedings by asylum seekers who were placed into alternatives to detention."

What's worse is that every climate scientist believes this is the tip of the iceberg. It's just beginning. In the next several decades....a third of the planet will be uninhabitable. It's going to be the poorest, hottest, and worst places imaginable. They expect 1 billion + people to be fleeing famine, drought, poverty and war/violence. Where will they flee to?? The US and Europe primarily. We're the wealthiest and best situated to handle climate change.

Take a look around you though....our infrastructure is crumbling, our public institutions are underfunded, our government is cripplingly slow and reactionary instead of pro-active. If we were the most egalitarian society that ever existed....we still wouldn't be able to handle an increase in population like that. As it stands, we have serious problems dealing with the population we have now.

Everything I just stated is true....so now all you need to do is decide if you want your children and grandchildren to be as doomed as 1/3rd of the planet is. If you are ok with that....then by all means, keep slapping band-aids on this problem until you run out of band-aids and you and yours are forced to leave seeking a better place.

If however, you decide you don't want to doom your children and your nation....the answer is simple. Just send an email to every democratic representative in your state and tell them to fix our broken asylum and immigration laws. Tell them you won't vote for them and you'll urge everyone you know to do the same unless they fix these laws. Tell them it's an unacceptable situation that cannot be resolved by throwing money at it.

If enough people did that, the laws would change in a matter of weeks....and the incentive to drag a child through this awful situation would disappear with the old laws.

That's the only way you're going to see this end in your lifetime. Our pockets aren't bottomless....our charity isn't infinite....and neither is the time we have to resolve this.
Where do you think all the folks on each coast and the southeast area of the US are going to flee to? The US is going to be hit harder than Central American and northern part of South America.

BUT CLIMATE CHANGE IS NOT THE TOPIC HERE. (caps for emphasis, not yelling)

What I see in the rest of your post is hyperbole, hysteria and a rant.
 
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FreeinChrist

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I’m in no way defending the Trump Administration in this instance. But at what point are the parents going to be held accountable for this? If I knowingly commit a crime with my kids in tow, am I not also responsible for for the consequences of that action?
It is not a crime to seek asylum. Some of those parents are teen girls seeking asylum.
 
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LostMarbels

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But THIS thread is about the DOJ going to court to get out of giving basic sanitary supplies to detained children that has been the expected minimum of care per a federal law.

It would help if folks bothered to READ the thread and then stay on topic.





IF you bother to read the OP and the thread and see what the topic is, then it is easier to address that topic and not bring other stuff up in a hysterical way.

I think what many are saying is that there is a difference between arguing about giving care and arguing that you're giving the care required by law.

The Trump administration is not arguing that they want to withhold aid as is being suggested. they are arguing they are meeting the minimum required by law
 
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Albion

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Trump wanted money for a border wall, where instead money could have been allocated earlier for handling the folks coming for asylum, fleeing violence.
Pelosi promised Trump that if the government were opened, she would negotiate funding for a wall along with other needs such as we are discussing. Of course, she hasn't done so now that the government is open.
 
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FreeinChrist

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I’m in no way defending the Trump Administration in this instance. But at what point are the parents going to be held accountable for this? If I knowingly commit a crime with my kids in tow, am I not also responsible for for the consequences of that action?
And let's be clear, this situation has been made worse since Trump has been president.

An Overview of U.S. Refugee Law and Policy

Until recently, the United States offered refuge each year to more people than all other nations combined. But the Trump administration has drastically reduced the maximum number of refugees that can enter the United States. Moreover, the United States government has imposed new security vetting procedures on refugees before they can be admitted into the country, which has greatly lengthened waiting times and left many refugees in dangerous situations for prolonged periods. In 2017, for the first time in modern history, the United States settled fewer refugees than the rest of the world.

reading on:

The President, in consultation with Congress, determines the numerical ceiling for refugee admissions each year. The State Department and Department of Homeland Security (DHS) are the primary agencies that assess the viability of different refugee populations for admission, as well as the capacity of U.S. government officials to process them. For Fiscal Year (FY) 2019, the ceiling was set at an all-time low of 30,000, down from the previous all-time low of 45,000 set in FY 2018 — although the number of refugees admitted in 2018 was only half of that number (22,415)

The largest share of refugees who came to the United States during FY 2018 were from Africa, followed by the Near East/South Asia, East Asia, Europe, and Latin America/Caribbean.
Is a person to be blamed for not wanting their daughter turned into a prostitute or their son become a gang banger or drug seller, or because they do not want to be raped or killed? These people, many of whom are Christian btw, are fleeing violence.

I would like to see the US government focus on why they are fleeing and use some of our great power to affect those countries - Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, and others - as many folks would prefer to stay. Some Americans act like these folks have access to goods. Most make very little. Even in Belize, the average pay for a full day of work is $30. It isn't THAT cheap to live here. Folks are poor. How do they avoid violence?
 
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Ringo84

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I wasn't going to come back here, because despite there being good people here, I'm fairly sick of some stuff here. But then I saw this thread and had to chime in to rebut the people here who are arguing against basic rights for children on the basis of "B-b-b-b-b-but they're illegal!"

That phrase should join "We were just following orders" in the pantheon of lame excuses that sociopaths tell themselves in an attempt to salve their guilty consciences.

Firstly, fleeing to this country - one where "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" is inscribed on the Statue of Liberty for a reason - is not a crime.

Secondly, even if migrating to this country from Central America was a crime, that does not justify the cruelty being shown to these children, their parents, and the other immigrants in border patrol's tender loving care. Period.

Thirdly, the only """crisis""" at the border is one that was created by the current. unfortunate occupant of the Oval Office. Border apprehensions have been dropping since 2000 (There Is No Border Crisis) and the reason for the disgusting and immoral behavior we're seeing at the border is not an imaginary crisis; or lack of funding/supplies, as another genius tried to say on another forum; it's wanton cruelty.

If you support that, or argue that it's ""necessary"" because of an imaginary border line, then...I wonder how you can claim to be a disciple of Christ?
Ringo
 
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FreeinChrist

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I think what many are saying is that there is a difference between arguing about giving care and arguing that you're giving the care required by law.

The Trump administration is not arguing that they want to withhold aid as is being suggested. they are arguing they are meeting the minimum required by law
No, if you read the article in the OP and others, they want to stop providing what has been expected as part of a 'safe and sanitary' environment that is required by the law.
 
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FreeinChrist

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....


Firstly, fleeing to this country - one where "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free" is inscribed on the Statue of Liberty for a reason - is not a crime.

AMEN! We are a nation of immigrants. If you are not NA, you are a descendant of immigrants.

Secondly, even if migrating to this country from Central America was a crime, that does not justify the cruelty being shown to these children, their parents, and the other immigrants in border patrol's tender loving care. Period.
I absolutely agree.


Thirdly, the only """crisis""" at the border is one that was created by the current. unfortunate occupant of the Oval Office. Border apprehensions have been dropping since 2000 (There Is No Border Crisis) and the reason for the disgusting and immoral behavior we're seeing at the border is not an imaginary crisis; or lack of funding/supplies, as another genius tried to say on another forum; it's wanton cruelty.

If you support that, or argue that it's ""necessary"" because of an imaginary border line, then...I wonder how you can claim to be a disciple of Christ?
Ringo
I do believe that the Trump administration made things worse. In a post above, I quoted this:

An Overview of U.S. Refugee Law and Policy
Until recently, the United States offered refuge each year to more people than all other nations combined. But the Trump administration has drastically reduced the maximum number of refugees that can enter the United States. Moreover, the United States government has imposed new security vetting procedures on refugees before they can be admitted into the country, which has greatly lengthened waiting times and left many refugees in dangerous situations for prolonged periods. In 2017, for the first time in modern history, the United States settled fewer refugees than the rest of the world.​


The idea that basics such as soap and towels and toothbrushes etc are not needed by children is obscene, and arguing such is not Christ-like as I understand scripture. It sure isn't loving one's neighbor, or doing unto others as we would have others do unto us.
 
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LostMarbels

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No, if you read the article in the OP and others, they want to stop providing what has been expected as part of a 'safe and sanitary' environment that is required by the law.

So which way do you want it? I remember specifically you arguing against taking funding from AIDS research and among other things even though it was even a small percentage, to fund bed spaces and even build housing facilities.

You cannot deny and obstruct every attempt at getting funding to provide these necessities and at the same time blame
the individual you obstruct for not having them.

This is a very intentional circus derided to undermine the Trump administration at the expense of these children. These children are being used as proof of trumps supposed illicit intent. These children are being paraded around for political gain.
 
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FreeinChrist

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So which way do you want it? I remember specifically you arguing against taking funding from AIDS research and among other things even though it was even a small percentage, to fund bed spaces and even build housing facilities.

I would have only argued against that because there are other sources to take funds than from medical research.

DO NOT MAKE THIS PERSONAL...


You cannot deny and obstruct every attempt at getting funding to provide these necessities and at the same time blame
the individual you obstruct for not having them.

This is a very intentional circus derided to undermine the Trump administration at the expense of these children. These children are being used as proof of trumps supposed illicit intent. These children are being paraded around for political gain.
I have already addressed why there has been a bigger problem at the border.

You know, the Republicans had the House, the Senate and the Presidency for 2 years. They could have pushed through funding for increased judges for asylum seekers. But Trump wanted a wall, and many republicans did not support a wall.

So don't try and blame Dems for all the problem:
Bipartisan DACA, border security deal fails in Senate - CNNPolitics
Trump could have had $25 billion for his wall, and maybe would not have done his Family separation policy and increased vetting, but Rep. Senators nixed it.

The Wall Funding Deals Trump Rejected

But this thread is about arguing that soap is not part of a 'safe and sanitary' environment.
 
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Ringo84

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It takes a real piece of work to say "B-b-but these kids are a conspiracy! To make the president look bad!" when confronted with the awful truth of what's being done in our name at the border.

Sad to see how far our country has sunk in the past few years. Or maybe we were always this bad and it just became abundantly obvious in the past couple of years. Either way, I don't think this country has much cause to celebrate this coming Fourth of July.
Ringo
 
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RichardY

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People whom it concerns should send money and supplies, rather than persistently virtue signal and do nothing.

All focus is putting accountability on the children, and not the parents(if they are) who, made the decisions.
 
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LostMarbels

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I would have only argued against that because there are other sources to take funds than from medical research.

DO NOT MAKE THIS PERSONAL...



I have already addressed why there has been a bigger problem at the border.

You know, the Republicans had the House, the Senate and the Presidency for 2 years. They could have pushed through funding for increased judges for asylum seekers. But Trump wanted a wall, and many republicans did not support a wall.

So don't try and blame Dems for all the problem:
Bipartisan DACA, border security deal fails in Senate - CNNPolitics
Trump could have had $25 billion for his wall, and maybe would not have done his Family separation policy and increased vetting, but Rep. Senators nixed it.

The Wall Funding Deals Trump Rejected

But this thread is about arguing that soap is not part of a 'safe and sanitary' environment.

It's not personal and I'm not making it personal. You cannot obstruct an individual in every aspect to responding to a situation and at the same time blame that individual for not responding to the situation.

as far as this only being about resources being denied even you are bringing up family separation and other aspects of this debate. So is the news article referenced in the op. so how is it off topic when even you the creator of the thread is talking about these topics?

As for the discussion about family separation, there are children that have been stolen from their families. there are others were their parents have been killed and they are used to recycle going back and forth with other family units. There are some children in these family groups quote-unquote family groups... That were stolen when they were around two years of age. And they don't even know that they were stolen or being used by the people there with. It takes parentry testing and or DNA profiling to make sure they're actually with their parents. So they are separated for their safety because we are aware of what's going on.
 
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Arcangl86

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People whom it concerns should send money and supplies, rather than persistently virtue signal and do nothing.

All focus is putting accountability on the children, and not the parents(if they are) who, made the decisions.
I should have to send money and supplies for the President to do his job? The Flores Agreement is part of the law of the United States and it is being violated.
 
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RichardY

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I should have to send money and supplies for the President to do his job? The Flores Agreement is part of the law of the United States and it is being violated.
Fine persistently virtue signal.

Send the supplies to the border staff. Blankets, soap, pillows. Help make the detention centres into the Hilton or Trump Hotels.
 
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LostMarbels

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It takes a real piece of work to say "B-b-but these kids are a conspiracy! To make the president look bad!" when confronted with the awful truth of what's being done in our name at the border.

Sad to see how far our country has sunk in the past few years. Or maybe we were always this bad and it just became abundantly obvious in the past couple of years. Either way, I don't think this country has much cause to celebrate this coming Fourth of July.
Ringo

Personally speaking I don't view these children as a conspiracy. I view them as being exploited for political gain by the Democrats. So let's get that straight. The Democrats have propagated every situation that is ongoing right now. From denial and obstruction of funding, standing against coyotes that are illegally bringing these children in and even the ethical treatment of these children. Every attempt made by this administration regardless of what it is is obstructed. you cannot continually obstruct an individual from performing their duties and their job and then hold them accountable for not being able to do their job.
 
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It is not a crime to seek asylum. Some of those parents are teen girls seeking asylum.
If they are seeking asylum legally, yes. But if they are doing so illegally, then why aren’t we holding the parents to some sort of responsibility?
 
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