Is The Son Less Than The Father?

The answer to the threads question is.......
NO.
Jesus Christ IS God.

Michael Collum said:

You're the greatest, no, you're the greatest.

No, you're the greatest ...

Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. (Philippians 2:3)

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That’s pretty awesome!

bcbsr said:

Actually if we let Jesus speak for himself, it's clear that he speaks of himself in a subordinate role in reference to the Father.

John 14:28 "You heard me say, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would be glad that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I."

John 6:38 "For I have come down from heaven not to do my will but to do the will of him who sent me."

Luke 22:42 "Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

John 17:2 "you granted him authority over all people that he might give eternal life to all those you have given him."

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The will of the Word of God is the same as the will of the Father, because The Word (Logos) is the reasoning faculty of the Father. Those references that you provided above are in regards to the human will of God the Word, Who became flesh and therefor had a human will in addition to His Divine will. There is no separation of wills between the Divine Persons of the Holy Trinity. The Church fathers who defended the truth against the various Theological and Christological heresies which arose and threatened the truth in the early Christian centuries have thoroughly addressed these questions in their treatises.

I will trust the words of Jesus.

ItIsFinished! said:

The answer to the threads question is.......
NO.
Jesus Christ IS God.

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If Jesus Christ is God. No tribute, can be given to the king of kings.

Give tribute to Jesus Christ.
Repent to The Father.

Loversofjesus_2018 said:

Was Jesus praying to himself? When Jesus said, “why do you call me good? No one is good except the father” was he talking about himself?

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Jesus did not say "No one is good except the father". He said "No one is good but God". He only questioned the young rich man in this way because of the young man's spiritually flawed way of looking at things. He called Jesus "good master" because he equated being good with being socially "affluent", which he perceived Jesus to be. Jesus teaches us by his reaction to being called good that social affluence does not make one good: good comes only from God doing good works in and through a person. Jesus is indeed "good", because Jesus is indeed God in the flesh.

Tree of Life said:

Since at least the time of Arius, heretics have arisen within the church saying that the Bible teaches that the Son is somehow less than the Father. Many of them have appealed to John's gospel in order to try to establish this teaching. One such text is John 5:19-20 which says:

19 So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise.

The Arians taught that this verse meant that Jesus was less than the Father since he was dependent upon the Father. Jesus could only imitate the Father and could do nothing on his own.

But Augustine, Hilary, Athanasius, Cyril, and others taught that this verse meant something very different. It's not that the Son depends on the Father in a subservient and powerless sense. But it is that the Son is perfectly united to the Father. The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father. In this sense, the Son does nothing alone because everything the Son does, the Father does. And everything the Father does, the Son does.

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They are ONE and the same. And we will never understand how that works. This is no mystery to a Holy Spirit filled believer. That body knows what Body it is in.
Blessings.

I am concerned with the testimony of Jesus.

Whosoever will be saved, before all things it is necessary that he hold the catholic faith. Which faith unless every one do keep whole and undefiled, without doubt he shall perish everlastingly. And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal. As also there are not three uncreated; nor three infinites, but one uncreated; and one infinite. So likewise the Father is Almighty; the Son Almighty; and the Holy Ghost Almighty. And yet they are not three Almighties; but one Almighty. So the Father is God; the Son is God; and the Holy Ghost is God. And yet they are not three Gods; but one God. So likewise the Father is Lord; the Son Lord; and the Holy Ghost Lord. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity; to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord; So are we forbidden by the catholic religion; to say, There are three Gods, or three Lords. The Father is made of none; neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone; not made, nor created; but begotten. The Holy Ghost is of the Father and of the Son; neither made, nor created, nor begotten; but proceeding. So there is one Father, not three Fathers; one Son, not three Sons; one Holy Ghost, not three Holy Ghosts. And in this Trinity none is before, or after another; none is greater, or less than another. But the whole three Persons are coeternal, and coequal. So that in all things, as aforesaid; the Unity in Trinity, and the Trinity in Unity, is to be worshipped. He therefore that will be saved, let him thus think of the Trinity.

Furthermore, it is necessary to everlasting salvation; that he also believe faithfully the Incarnation of our Lord Jesus Christ. For the right Faith is, that we believe and confess; that our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, is God and Man; God, of the Substance [Essence] of the Father; begotten before the worlds; and Man, of the Substance [Essence] of his Mother, born in the world. Perfect God; and perfect Man, of a reasonable soul and human flesh subsisting. Equal to the Father, as touching his Godhead; and inferior to the Father as touching his Manhood. Who although he is God and Man; yet he is not two, but one Christ. One; not by conversion of the Godhead into flesh; but by assumption of the Manhood into God. One altogether; not by confusion of Substance [Essence]; but by unity of Person. For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ; Who suffered for our salvation; descended into hell; rose again the third day from the dead. He ascended into heaven, he sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty, from whence he will come to judge the living and the dead. At whose coming all men will rise again with their bodies; And shall give account for their own works. And they that have done good shall go into life everlasting; and they that have done evil, into everlasting fire. This is the catholic faith; which except a man believe truly and firmly, he cannot be saved.

From Athanasian Creed. We say this on Trinity Sunday, which was last Sunday.

truefiction1 said:

Jesus did not say "No one is good except the father". He said "No one is good but God". He only questioned the young rich man in this way because of the young man's spiritually flawed way of looking at things. He called Jesus "good master" because he equated being good with being socially "affluent", which he perceived Jesus to be. Jesus teaches us by his reaction to being called good that social affluence does not make one good: good comes only from God doing good works in and through a person. Jesus is indeed "good", because Jesus is indeed God in the flesh.

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Yeah I get it but there still is a lot of send interpretation in your reasoning which I understand is necessary but it’s still possible you could be wrong. Can we at least agree that it’s possible? Scripture does not say all that you just said. You read between the lines and made context out of it. Your opinion. And that’s cool. We all do it.

As a man, maybe He was in some aspects, while encased in this flesh, but not afterwards, and most certainly not now...

The flesh is limited, but the Spirit and being in Spirit is not...

God Bless!

RichardY said:

If Jesus Christ is God. No tribute, can be given to the king of kings.

Give tribute to Jesus Christ.
Repent to The Father.

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Like I stated earlier with simplicity, Jesus Christ is God.
No need for any mumbo jumbo.
Seriously, no need.
He walked on water.
He created all .

Tree of Life said:

Greater in what sense? Greater in power? No. Greater in authority? No. Greater in knowledge? No. The Father is greater than Jesus in the sense of Jesus' human nature, but not according to his divine nature.



To say that the Father has more authority than the Son is to imply that the Son is less God than the Father.

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Well put.
God emptied Himself and became flesh. He relinquished his glory. It was not his purpose for man to grasp this concept at the time, the God/man.
The Bible says he is the exact expression of the Father.
The Father and I are one ... If you've seen me, you've seen the Father.
He was crucified because the Pharisees accused him of claiming equality with God ... "Before Abraham was, I AM."
He became sin, took upon himself all sins of mankind - only God can do that.
He forgave sins, He had authority to do so.
He demonstrated His healing power, power over death.
While His humanity showed submissiveness to the Father, this was purposed, he had a mission, he was tested, obedient, and fulfilled the law and the prophecies.
To take on the sins of the world, you would have to be fully God: omniscient, omnipresent and omnipotent.
He is the WORD. Im the beginning the WORD was with God and the WORD was God.
COL. 1;16, 17 SAYS Jesus is the CREATOR. EVERYTHING WAS CREATED THROUGH HIM, FOR HIM AND BY HIM.
If He created everything HOW is the FATHER greater than the SON?
As a man, Jesus said this, not in His glorifies state. BEFORE HE died he asked the Father to glorify Him as He was before. When resurrected and once He ascended to His Father, He received that glory.

Neogaia777 said:

As a man, maybe He was in some aspects, while encased in this flesh, but not afterwards, and most certainly not now...

The flesh is limited, but the Spirit and being in Spirit is not...

God Bless!

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For or as an example, Jesus certainly wasn't omnipresent while in the flesh, for that is impossible, but He is now, or was or could be afterwards, ect... And there may have been other things like this as well... But He was fully God as the God/Man...

God Bless!

ItIsFinished! said:

Like I stated earlier with simplicity, Jesus Christ is God.
No need for any mumbo jumbo.
Seriously, no need.
He walked on water.
He created all .

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Then who is he talking too? I’ve understood that everyone is trying to look at Jesus words in context. The only problem with context is your forced to add in our own thoughts and opinions on the matter.... I do like to understand correctly, so my question is can you or anybody else show me where Jesus made it clear that he didn’t mean what he said when he said the father is greater than he is? I’m not asking to try and prove anybody wrong, I’m asking so that I could get away from all our opinions on the matter and to the truth

Neogaia777 said:

For or as an example, Jesus certainly wasn't omnipresent while in the flesh, for that is impossible, but He is now, or was or could be afterwards, ect... And there may have been other things like this as well... But He was fully God as the God/Man...

God Bless!

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Is there anywhere where this is made certain in scripture? Because if it’s certain and there is scripture to back up what your saying then we shouldn’t even be debating on this thread. When something is known for certain how can there be a conflict?

Loversofjesus_2018 said:

Is there anywhere where this is made certain in scripture? Because if it’s certain and there is scripture to back up what your saying then we shouldn’t even be debating on this thread. When something is known for certain how can there be a conflict?

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Certain that He was not omnipresent while in the flesh you mean, or what...?

Cause I'm pretty certain of that much...

God Bless!

Loversofjesus_2018 said:

Is there anywhere where this is made certain in scripture? Because if it’s certain and there is scripture to back up what your saying then we shouldn’t even be debating on this thread. When something is known for certain how can there be a conflict?

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And just who in the whatever are you to tell me what threads I should or shouldn't be on or be debating on anyway...?

I debate on whatever threads I want to and like to, thank you very much...

God Bless!

Loversofjesus_2018 said:

Is there anywhere where this is made certain in scripture? Because if it’s certain and there is scripture to back up what your saying then we shouldn’t even be debating on this thread. When something is known for certain how can there be a conflict?

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Unless you want to tell us how Jesus was omnipresent while in the flesh...?

God Bless!

Neogaia777 said:

Unless you want to tell us how Jesus was omnipresent while in the flesh...?

God Bless!

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Oh I’m really sorry I offended you. It was not my intentions at all. I was referring to certainty about if he was equal to the father or not.... and all I meant by saying there is no need to debate was that when there is certainty debating is unnecessary. Either way the fact that I offended you is what I’m focused on and I just wanted to say sorry. I’m going to move on from this thread now.

Loversofjesus_2018 said:

Yeah I get it but there still is a lot of send interpretation in your reasoning which I understand is necessary but it’s still possible you could be wrong. Can we at least agree that it’s possible? Scripture does not say all that you just said. You read between the lines and made context out of it. Your opinion. And that’s cool. We all do it.

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It, my dear friend, is not really my opinion, or my interpretation that I shared here. It has been the interpretation that is the consensus of the Church, which is nearly two-thousand years old now, that this, among other truths, is what is being conveyed by this passage in Scripture. I'm just repeating what I've heard and read in many places before.