When Do Human Rights Begin?

Tree of Life · Jun 21, 2019

HitchSlap said:
Humans are granted rights once a pregnancy has been detected.

Really? Who grants them?

HitchSlap · Jun 21, 2019

Tree of Life said:
Really? Who grants them?

We do.

gaara4158 · Jun 21, 2019

Tree of Life said:
It's fine to proceed here. I believe this because it is what God has revealed about himself through the Scriptures and it is also necessary to the very idea of God. Many who haven't thought deeply about what "God" means simply envision God as a very powerful and knowledgable person. Kindof like a super hero but greater. But studying and reflecting on theology, we would have to conclude that "God" is an ultimately transcendent and necessary being upon whom all other beings are dependent. Nothing could be intelligible apart from such a being.

This is one reason why it's absurd to ask for evidence of God's existence as if God were just like anything else within creation. We cannot investigate God any more than Macbeth can investigate Shakespeare.

Yes, I am familiar with the difference between the god of classical theism/the philosophers and the God of Christianity/YHWH. So I take it you buy into a form of ontological argument, and we don't need to get into that here (I'm generally ambivalent on the god of the philosophers, finding the concept at times both unassailable and incomprehensible), but I'm interested in how you made the leap from that to the god of Christianity, whom you believe is revealed through the scriptures.

HitchSlap · Jun 21, 2019

Tree of Life said:
I don't believe it's possible for anyone to imagine a world without God. Atheists are in the position of implicitly recognizing God's existence all the while trying to suppress their knowledge of God. They are internally inconsistent and self-conflicted. They may or may not be aware of this.

This is cute.

HitchSlap · Jun 21, 2019

Tree of Life said:
I don't but God does. These are things he has revealed in the Scriptures.

Don't get ahead of yourself. All we have is evidence that men wrote the bible, who made claims on god's behalf.

HitchSlap · Jun 21, 2019

Tree of Life said:
We cannot investigate God any more than Macbeth can investigate Shakespeare.

Kind of problem, then, isn't it?

(BTW, Macbeth is to Shakespeare, as god is to the bible?)

Tree of Life · Jun 21, 2019

HitchSlap said:
Kind of problem, then, isn't it?

(BTW, Macbeth is to Shakespeare, as god is to the bible?)

It's not a problem for those who humbly submit themselves to the Creator. Macbeth is to Shakespeare as creation is to the Creator.

HitchSlap · Jun 21, 2019

Tree of Life said:
It's not a problem for those who humbly submit themselves to the Creator. Macbeth is to Shakespeare as creation is to the Creator.

But Macbeth is a figment of Shakespeare's mind... Oh, never mind.

Tree of Life · Jun 21, 2019

HitchSlap said:
But Macbeth is a figment of Shakespeare's mind... Oh, never mind.

And we are the products of the thoughts of God.

HitchSlap · Jun 21, 2019

Tree of Life said:
And we are the products of the thoughts of God.

Well, that explains nothing.

quatona · Jun 21, 2019

Tree of Life said:
Because I believe that God is the very foundation of being, rationality, and morality, I don't believe it's possible to imagine a world without God. God is an ontologically necessary being. That's the very definition of God.

If you believe all that and cannot imagine anything else, I think you better ask God your thread question (and not us).

Freodin · Jun 24, 2019

Tree of Life said:
And we are the products of the thoughts of God.

So, when Macbeth kills Duncan, both protagonists are "the products of the thoughts of Shakespeare".

That kind of idea is rather problematic for the concept of "Free will".

Tree of Life · Jun 24, 2019

Freodin said:
So, when Macbeth kills Duncan, both protagonists are "the products of the thoughts of Shakespeare".

That kind of idea is rather problematic for the concept of "Free will".

I'm a compatibalist.

Freodin · Jun 24, 2019

Tree of Life said:
I'm a compatibalist.

I don't mind what kind of food you like...

Kidding, of course.

But in this case, I don't think this position as any relevance. It is not a question of compatibility of free will and determinism - I personally think they are very compatible, given a proper understanding.

It is a question of "will" at all.

In the example, it is not a question whether Macbeth has or has not a "choice". The problem is that he was no "will" of his own.

When Do Human Rights Begin?

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"God"? What do you mean??

Devout believer in a theologically different God

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