"Distinction Theology?"

eleos1954

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I just received FFOZ Messiah Journal #134, and Thomas Lancaster has an article on Judaizing (really different definition) and gets into Replacement theology, Supersessionism, "One Law" theory and a number of other approaches to the question of Torah observance in the New Covenant, with the interaction between Jewish and Gentile tribes within our Redeemed Nation. He defines it this way (page 33 and following)

Distinction Theology
What is distinction theology? It’s the premise that there is a difference between Jewish people and Gentiles, even after they become Yeshua followers. To explain the concept, we need to begin with the betrothal passage from Exodus 19.
When the children of Israel arrived at Mount Sinai, HaShem made the nation an offer:
“You yourselves have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself. Now therefore, if you will indeed obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession among all peoples, for all the earth is mine; and you shall be to me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation.” These are the words that you shall speak to the people of Israel. (Exodus 19:4–6)
On the basis of this passage, we call the nation of Israel “the chosen people.” Observe here that God chose this nation to be:
1. “My treasured possession.” This is the Hebrew word segulah. It’s an old Semitic term for a king’s trophy or prize that he carries off from a battle. It’s a token of his victory. Israel is God’s segulah, or trophy, which signifies God’s defeat of Egypt, the defeat of the gods of Egypt, and God’s conquest of the nations.
2. “A kingdom of priests.” A priest, or kohen, is a person set apart from a group of people as a representative to serve the gods. In the ancient world, not everyone had the time to be sacrificing all day and keeping the gods happy, so agriculturalists developed a priestly class of people who could take care of that function on their behalf. The priests represented the people’s interests to the gods and the gods’ interests to the people. The priests were like ambassadors between the people and the gods. When the LORD says that he wants Israel to be among the nations like a priesthood, it implies that the nation of Israel is to serve the rest of humanity as the priestly nation. They are to be to the other nations of the world what the Aaronic priesthood was to the rest of the nation of Israel. They convey the revelation of God to the nations, and they serve God on behalf of the nations.
3. “A holy nation.” A priesthood is set apart from the rest of the people for the holy service. For example, a kohen is not permitted to enter a cemetery or attend a funeral except for those of his closest relatives. He needs to maintain a state of ritual purity. A regular Israelite, by contrast, has a mitzvah to attend a funeral and escort the dead. There is a distinction between priests and non-priests and their respective obligations. There is a distinction between priests and non-priests in terms of privileges and prerogatives as well. For example, only the priests can approach the altar, splash the blood, enter the Sanctuary, burn the incense, or light the menorah. Only the high priest can enter the holy of holies.
Likewise, as a holy nation, Israel is set apart. The Jewish people have special priestly duties that the rest of the nations do not. There are things they are required to do that the rest of the nations are not required to do. They also have privileges and prerogatives that the rest of the nations don’t have. That’s what distinction theology is about.

Distinction theology: The theological perspective that teaches a distinction between Jewish and Gentile disciples.
I would like to hear your comments on this. From the teachings of David J Rudolph PhD, MJTI, My own beliefs pretty much line up with with what Lancaster has written here.

Disagree with the distinction theology ... we are all the same in Christ.

Galatians 3

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Hebrews 7:27

He has no need, like those high priests (of old), to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself.

Revelation 20:6

Blessed and holy is the one (anyone saved) who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him ...

In our justification, God has declared us (all believers) righteous in Christ through His blood. In our sanctification, God is working to make us righteous in what we do, say, think, and feel. As the Lord’s holy priesthood, we can be sure that His work to sanctify us is not in vain and that even though we might get discouraged at times, He will most certainly transform us into the holy priests He has designed us to be.

All will serve in the temple in Heaven as holy priests.
 
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devin553344

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Ummmm.....Matthew 12:32 must have different wording in your Bible. Nothing about Jews or God's children or being saved in mine.

It's clear what the bible says about them. You don't see it apparently. Luke 23:34
 
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AbbaLove

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Except God Himself made that distinction between the Jewish people and everyone else in TORAH. No such biblical distinction was made between the EOC and the RCC; or the RCC and the Protestant denoms.

Big difference.
Dave you started by saying you were interested in comments to what Lancaster has written ...
I would like to hear your comments on this. From the teachings of David J Rudolph PhD, MJTI, My own beliefs pretty much line up with with what Lancaster has written here.

Yet we find out your purpose is really to debate/argue with someone who doesn't agree with your or Lancaster's "theology" ... so what else is new in Christianity or even Messianic Judaism (e.g. anti-Paul or Pro-Paul)? It didn't take long to figure out that your real purpose is to debate your distinctive theological opinions. Next you'll tell us that Messianic Judaism really doesn't have a "theology" other than the Torah which is a GOD ordained theology. Therefore, all other theologies have been corrupted by religious men. What about Talmud "theology" or Rabbinic Judaism "theology" ? Isn't it distinctive from the so-called "Distinctive Theology" of Messianic Judaism ?

Now that we know the purpose of your thread is to debate anyone that disagrees with your (or Lancaster's theology. You are wrong for five valid reasons ...

1. The RCC sees a major theological distinction between Protestantism and Roman Catholicism.
2. The Protestant Reformation was due to a major theological distinction resulting in a breakaway fracture from the RCC.
3. Most every theologian believes their theology is distinctively correct/valid and any other theology is faulty. That is apparently your s
4. Your initial thread gave the impression you were genuinely interested in getting further insight, comments, feedback, but instead we find out your purpose is to debate/argue with those that differ from your distinctive theological stance in which case you are eager to tell them is so many words that they are wrong and you are right. What else is new under the sun within Christianity and becoming more evident among Messianics ?
5. The word "theology" does not exist as a Hebrew/Jewish word in the Torah. Theology as such is a man-made concept that came into prominence with so many Protestant denominations with distinctions in their doctrines (theology) (e.g. Baptist, Liberal Catholic, Adventist, Pentecostal, etc)​

OK, let's start a FFOZ Lancaster "theology" following among MJ members. Everyone that is on board will be viewed as a distinctive reborn Christian. For those that aren't aware 90% of Lancaster's congregation are Gentiles with many having a denominational "Christian" background that had an unfortunate experience that soured them to the divisiveness among denominational finger-pointing Christianity.

Perhaps, this "Distinction Theology" thread should be moved to the General Theology Forum being that your real purpose is to argue/debate with those that don't see eye-to-eye with your theology or that of Pastor Lancaster. Maybe, with Lulav's help and others you can get CF to start a Messianic Judaism Theology forum.
 
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visionary

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You don't agree that the passover was a type of the body and blood of Christ?
Yeah, the eucharist has no significant history with Yeshua or meaning. Our Passover Lamb is rich with meaning, purpose, and love.
 
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Dave-W

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Shimshon

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I would like to hear your comments on this.
To get even more detailed there are actually three distinctions of priests All were Levi'im, some were cohanim, and one was over them all. All priests but not all having the same calling/function within the temple/kingdom. Even Abraham and Moses and John didn't attain the goal but led others to it.

The heart of God is the restoration of Israel, and everyone is claiming the identity or denying it altogether. Because if we are restored it will mean life from the dead. For Israel and the world. So the enemies of God fight day and night against the holy one of Israel and her annointed.

It's no wonder really that many Christians can't understand this pattern, replacement theology has been a belief in the church since Rome 49ad. when they kicked out all Jews and all things Jewish. Leaving only the non-Jewish believers who didn't have Shaul's letters and now were Toraless. They had the roots and the word yanked out from under their feet. By the time Jews were allowed back they were persecuted by those who now thought they knew better.

The book of Romans is the only book that addresses this issue Because that community experienced this specific problem. Other communities like the Galatians had the polar opposite problem with the Jewishness of the gospel.

I think Dr Lancaster make some very valid points. Many from the church have blurred the message and eradicate the very mosaic that makes up the kingdom of God. Pun intended..
 
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visionary

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so what do you do with the Melchisedec?

Hebrews 7 [Full Chapter]
For this Melchisedec, king of Salem, priest of the most high God, who met Abraham returning from the slaughter of the kings, and blessed him; To whom also Abraham gave a tenth part of all; first being by interpretation King of righteousness, and after that also King of Salem, which is, King of peace; Without father, without mother, without descent, having neither beginning of days, nor end of life; but made like unto the Son of God; abideth a priest continually. …

How does this fit in with what you are saying?
Psalm 110:4
The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
 
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AbbaLove

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so what do you do with the Melchisedec?
How does this fit in with what you are saying?

Psalm 110:4
The Lord hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.
Melchizedek would have to be a cornerstone of Distinction Theology in that he is a major figure in the Torah and Messianic Judaism. Lancaster would further contend that Melchizedek is another example of what makes "Distinction Theology" (Messianic Judaism) so distinctive from the theology of today's denominational Gentile Christianity.
Distinction theology: The theological perspective that teaches a distinction between Jewish and Gentile disciples.
In effect/affect Pastor Lancaster is saying nothing new in that the distinction between Messianic Judaism and denominational Gentile Christianity is most distinctive. In fact so distinctive that any theological distinctions within today's denominational Christianity pales in comparison to his "Distinction Theology" between Messianic Judaism and today's denominational Gentile Christianity.

However, reading between the lines one can also see that Messianic Judaism is conflicted between two extremes of anti-Paulism theology and pro-Paulism theology. Messianic Judaism would contend that MJ's are not into anti-Pauline theology, but rather that today's Gentile denominational Christian theologians misinterpret Paul's Jewish letters (epistles) written to both Jewish and non-Jewish Christians.

 
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ralliann

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Melchizedek would have to be a cornerstone of Distinction Theology in that he is a major figure in the Torah and Messianic Judaism. Lancaster would further contend that Melchizedek is another example of what makes "Distinction Theology" (Messianic Judaism) so distinctive from the theology of today's denominational Gentile Christianity.
In effect/affect Pastor Lancaster is saying nothing new in that the distinction between Messianic Judaism and denominational Gentile Christianity is most distinctive. In fact so distinctive that any theological distinctions within today's denominational Christianity pales in comparison to his "Distinction Theology" between Messianic Judaism and today's denominational Gentile Christianity.

However, reading between the lines one can also see that Messianic Judaism is conflicted between two extremes of anti-Paulism theology and pro-Paulism theology. Messianic Judaism would contend that MJ's are not into anti-Pauline theology, but rather that today's Gentile denominational Christian theologians misinterpret Paul's Jewish letters (epistles) written to both Jewish and non-Jewish Christians.

What baffles me is.....
Hebrews bases the change on the nullification of fleshly commands, yet this distinction theology maintains it.
This also makes me wonder why the priesthood of distinction theology is not itself a form of supercessionism of the priesthood Aaron and Levi?
 
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AbbaLove

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What baffles me is.....
Hebrews bases the change on the nullification of fleshly commands, yet this distinction theology maintains it.
This also makes me wonder why the priesthood of distinction theology is not itself a form of supercessionism of the priesthood Aaron and Levi?
Your post (in a manner of speaking) does have a ring to it as if it could be coming from a Rabbinic Judaism perspective. Don't you suppose orthodox Judaism could say the same thing that Messianic Judaism is "a form of supercessionism of the priesthood Aaron and Levi" even though the Temple for sacrificing and atonement no longer exists in Jerusalem.

Pastor Daniel Thomas Landcaster's "Distinction Theology" is presented as "thee" most distinct form of Messianic Judaism theology within Messianic Judaism (e.g. UMJC, MJAA, FFOZ). The majority of his "Gentile" congregation computes from the greater metro area of Minneapolis/St. Paul. Even though there are other MJ congregations in the greater TC Metro his largely Gentile congregation prefers the "Distinction Theology" of Beth Immanuel in Wisconsin as most representative of 1st Century Messianic Jewish Torah Gentile Christianity. Pastor Landcaster believes 1st Century Gentile Christian disciples were eventually led astray by the "Church" misinterpretation of Paul's letters as giving special exception from the Hebrew Torah that Gentile Christian disciples were not obligated to follow (e.g. observing the Sabbath and eating Kosher as just two examples).
 
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visionary

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Your post (in a manner of speaking) does have a ring to it as if it could be coming from a Rabbinic Judaism perspective. Don't you suppose orthodox Judaism could say the same thing that Messianic Judaism is "a form of supercessionism of the priesthood Aaron and Levi" even though the Temple for sacrificing and atonement no longer exists in Jerusalem.

Pastor Daniel Thomas Landcaster's "Distinction Theology" is presented as "thee" most distinct form of Messianic Judaism theology within Messianic Judaism (e.g. UMJC, MJAA, FFOZ). The majority of his "Gentile" congregation computes from the greater metro area of Minneapolis/St. Paul. Even though there are other MJ congregations in the greater TC Metro his largely Gentile congregation prefers the "Distinction Theology" of Beth Immanuel in Wisconsin as most representative of 1st Century Messianic Jewish Torah Gentile Christianity. Pastor Landcaster believes 1st Century Gentile Christian disciples were eventually led astray by the "Church" misinterpretation of Paul's letters as giving special exception from the Hebrew Torah that Gentile Christian disciples were not obligated to follow (e.g. observing the Sabbath and eating Kosher as just two examples).
That special exception is an excuse to be outside the commonwealth of Israel. A foolish mistake.
 
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AbbaLove

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That special exception is an excuse to be outside the commonwealth of Israel. A foolish mistake.
Thus a valid reason for the increased interest today that non-Jewish (Gentile) disciples have in the Hebrew Roots of Christianity and Messianic Judaism as a "Distinction Theology" being necessary to distinguish MJ Torah theology from that of most of today's Gentile denominational Christianity that is basically non-Torah (e.g. does not recognize the Saturday Sabbath or Kosher laws as just two examples).

Thus Messianic Judaism could contend that the word "Judaizer" is a RCC invention that was further perpetuated by Protestantism. Then that leads into the two theological extremes of anti-Paulism vs pro-Paulism when it comes to one's interpretation of Paul's letters (epistles) directed primarily to the 1st Century Messianic-Christian non-Jewish (Gentile) followers-disciples of Yeshua HaMashiach.
 
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ralliann

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Don't you suppose orthodox Judaism could say the same thing that Messianic Judaism is "a form of supercessionism of the priesthood Aaron and Levi" even though the Temple for sacrificing and atonement no longer exists in Jerusalem.
Yes, that was the point of my post. Not just Orthodox Judaism, but Christianity as well.
 
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Swan7

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Replacement theology and one law theology are two sides of the same coin: replacement theology teaches that Gentile Christian identity replaces Jewish identity.

This is what really mixes me up when some use this term "replacement". Replacement means to take away something and add something else. Going through the Bible I have not seen this routine, but rather what the poster below said:

It is not replacement theology to see the church (Jews and Gentiles) as one thing. It is fulfillment theology!! God intended this from the start when He called Abraham. (Romans 4)

Now this I certainly agree with because it's what the Bible shows (OT into the NT & Future) and tells us through Jesus Christ: Matthew 5:17-20.

However, I'm beginning to wonder if you (OP) are actually talking about the Kingdom of God, the governing body?
 
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Hank77

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Yeah, the eucharist has no significant history with Yeshua or meaning. Our Passover Lamb is rich with meaning, purpose, and love.
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. What do you mean by 'our Passover Lamb'?

Maybe you could just say yes or no to this question. The passover/the sacrificed lamb in Torah is a type/shadow of the Christ? Yes or no.

Thanks
 
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visionary

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I'm sorry, I don't understand what you are saying. What do you mean by 'our Passover Lamb'?

Maybe you could just say yes or no to this question. The passover/the sacrificed lamb in Torah is a type/shadow of the Christ? Yes or no.

Thanks
Our Passover Lamb Yeshua is rich with meaning, purpose, and love.
 
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AbbaLove

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What baffles me is.....
Hebrews bases the change on the nullification of fleshly commands, yet this distinction theology maintains it.
Pastor Landcaster's "Distinction Theology" (FFOZ) is in itself representative of the "General Theology" of Messianic Judaism. Thus Messianic Judaism and "Distinction Theology" is somewhat synonymous. My comment was merely to point out that "theology" in itself is man's attempt to interrupt and verbalize GOD's Word. Thus my comment was intended to point out that we shouldn't assume that Pastor Landcaster's "Distinction Theology" is GOD ordained any more than within Messianic Judaism some question whether or not portions of Paul's letters (possibly including Book of Hebrews) are GOD ordained ... OR ... Paul's own commentary (theology).

It was the OPs intent to point out that according to Pastor Landcaster's "Distinction Theology" that today's Messianic Judaism best represents 1st Century Christianity. In other words if only all of Christendom were Messianic Judaism would the hearts of GOD's Jewish people then be more receptive to accepting Yeshua as Israel's Messiah. In other words modern day Messianic Judaism may in fact be the "Distinction Theology" that hastens the second coming of Yeshua HaMashiach.
 
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