SDA Founder Ellen White is a Plagiarist

Dale · Jun 18, 2019

Daniel Marsh said:
Problem is in all her writings which are many she passed the words of others off as hers. She did not give proper quotation of the era which is the same as today. That in short is stealing.

Ellen White (1827-1915): “She then said, ‘The inhabitants [of Saturn] are a tall, majestic people, so unlike the inhabitants of earth. Sin has never entered here’” (From the letter of Mrs. M. C. Truesdail, January 27, 1891).

Library | Ellen G. White Estate

Ellen White (1827-1915): “The Lord has given me a view of other worlds….Then I saw two trees, one looked much like the tree of life in the city. The fruit of both looked beautiful, but of one they could not eat….Then my attending angel said to me, “None in this place have tasted of the forbidden tree….” (EW, pp. 39-40, 1882).

“…when Jesus brought along the crowns and with His own right hand placed them on our heads” (Word to The Little Flock, p. 15, 1847).

“Then I saw very great number of angels bring from the city glorious crowns- a crown for every saint, with his name written thereon. As Jesus called for the crowns, the angels presented it to Him, and with His own hand, the lovely Jesus placed the crowns on the heads of the saints” (Early Writings, p. 288, 1882).

Thirty five years later:

“I have never seen any persons crowned in the kingdom of God, only on conditions that if they were faithful they would receive the crown of immortal life in the kingdom of glory” (8 MR, p. 239, 1990).

For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world.--Ellen G. White Ms. 4, 1883; Selected Messages, book 1, p. 63.

At the time I had the vision of the midnight cry I had given it up in the past and thought it future, as also most of the band had.--Ellen G. White Letter 3, 1847, written July 13, 1847 to Joseph Bates.

When she received her first vision, Dec. 1844, she and all the band in Portland, Maine, (where her parents then resided) had given up the midnight-cry, and shut door, as being in the past. It was then that the Lord shew her in vision, the error into which she and the band in Portland had fallen. She then related her vision to the band, and about sixty confessed their error, and acknowledged their 7th month experience to be the work of God.--James White, A Word to the Little Flock, p. 22.

For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world. This position was taken before my first vision was given me. It was the light given me of God that corrected our error, and enabled us to see the true position.--Selected Messages, book 1, p. 63.

"
The "7th month experience," or "midnight cry," was the proclamation that Christ would return on the 10th day of the 7th Jewish month, which in 1844 fell on October 22. In her first vision Ellen Harmon was shown that the seventh month movement was "the work of God." In other words, the Millerite calculations based on Daniel 8:14 were not to be discarded as an unfortunate blunder.

This vision substantiated the validity of the October 22 date. However, since Christ had not returned on that date, the prophecy of Daniel 8:14 must have been fulfilled by some other event. James White indicates that, on the basis of what she was shown in her first vision, Ellen Harmon reverted to her earlier view that the door was shut on October 22. She apparently now believed that the door of mercy was closed."
Ellen G. White® Estate: The "Shut Door" Documents

For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world. This position was taken before my first vision was given me. It was the light given me of God that corrected our error, and enabled us to see the true position.--Selected Messages, book 1, p. 63.

In 1891 Uriah Smith wrote:

In the midst of this evolution of new views, a few weeks after the passing of the time, and while many were making shipwreck of faith, Sister White had her first vision. In it she was shown that "the midnight cry," which they had just passed through, was a great light set up behind them, and was not to be rejected; that if kept in view, it would shed light on the pathway clear through to the end; but if rashly denied, darkness and ruin to such souls would follow. Now says the objector, "The visions taught the shut door, because the shut-door view was connected with that of the midnight cry; and the vision taught that the midnight cry was not to be given up." The conclusion does not follow. It is a false charge. The vision said nothing about the shut door. But the midnight cry was a vital pillar of truth, and was not to be surrendered, though some errors had been connected with it. To give up the midnight cry was to give up the whole work, and make utter shipwreck of faith. And any candid reader can judge whether it were better to give up that truth on account of an error which men had attached to it, and so wholly apostatize, rather than hold fast to the truth, and wait patiently till the Lord should remove the error which men had connected with it. Everyone will say the latter. And this they did; and the explanation and correction came in due time.--Review and Herald, January 6, 1891, p. 8.

[p. 7]

Ellen White's explanation of the true meaning of her first vision ("the true position") is as follows:

For a time after the disappointment in 1844, I did hold, in common with the advent body, that the door of mercy was then forever closed to the world. This position was taken before my first vision was given me. It was the light given me of God that corrected our error, and enabled us to see the true position.

I am still a believer in the shut-door theory, but not in the sense in which we at first employed the term or in which it is employed by my opponents.

There was a shut door in Noah's day. There was at that time a withdrawal of the Spirit of God from the sinful race that perished in the waters of the Flood. God Himself gave the shut-door message to Noah:

"My spirit shall not always strive with man, for that he also is flesh: yet his days shall be an hundred and twenty years" (Gen. 6:3).

There was a shut door in the days of Abraham. Mercy ceased to plead with the inhabitants of Sodom, and all but Lot, with his wife and two daughters, were consumed by the fire sent down from heaven.

There was a shut door in Christ's day. The Son of God declared to the unbelieving Jews of that generation, "Your house is left unto you desolate" (Matt. 23:38).

Looking down the stream of time to the last days, the same infinite power proclaimed through John:

"These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth" (Rev. 3:7).

I was shown in vision, and I still believe, that there was a shut door in 1844. All who saw the light of the first and second angels' messages and rejected that light, were left in darkness. And those who accepted it and received the Holy Spirit which attended the proclamation of the message from heaven, and who afterward renounced their faith and pronounced their experience a delusion, thereby rejected the Spirit of God, and it no longer pleaded with them.

Those who did not see the light, had not the guilt of its rejection. It was only the class who had despised the light from heaven that the Spirit of God could not reach. And this class included, as I have stated, both those who refused to accept the message when it was presented to them, and also those who, having received it, afterward renounced their faith. These might have a form of godliness, and profess to be followers of Christ; but having no living connection with God, they would be taken captive by the delusions of Satan. These two classes are brought to view in the vision--those who declared the light which they had followed a delusion, and the wicked of the world who, having rejected the light, had been rejected of God. No reference is made to those who had not seen the light, and therefore were not guilty of its rejection.--Ms. 4, 1883; Selected Messages, book 1, pp. 63-64.

Ellen G. White® Estate: The "Shut Door" Documents

The Scapegoat (Christ/Satan)
“It was seen, also, that while the sin-offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scape-goat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed. When the high priest, by virtue of the blood of the sin-offering, removed the sins from the sanctuary, he placed them upon the scape-goat. When Christ, by virtue of his own blood, removes the sins of his people from the heavenly sanctuary at the close of his ministration, he will place them upon Satan” (4SP, pp. 266, 267, 1884).

“Satan not only bore the weight and punishment of his sins, but the sins of all the redeemed host had been placed upon him…” (1SG, p. 217, 1858; EW, pp. 294, 295, 1882).

Note: She believed the scapegoat to be Satan as taught by Crosier in 1847. In 1858 Ellen White said that Satan will have to bear the sins of the redeemed as well as his own and in 1884 she identified the scapegoat as Satan.

Fifty years later:

“Some apply the solemn type, the scape goat, to Satan. This is not correct. He cannot bear his own sins. At the choosing of Barabbas, Pilate washed his hands. He cannot be represented as the scape goat…Christ was the scape goat, which the type represents. He alone can be represented by the goat borne into the wilderness. He alone, over whom death had no power, was able to bear our sins” (The Scapegoat in the Writings of Ellen G. White, Alberto R. Timm, Ellen White Estate, [Accessed from internet on Oct 26, 2013]; Manuscript 112, 1897).

Note: I presume that this quotation was deliberately suppressed from being used as it contradicts and destroys the sanctuary doctrine, and sensing this serious threat to our church, Ellen White refrained from further use of this statement.

Daniel Marsh in post #14:
<<

The Scapegoat (Christ/Satan)
“It was seen, also, that while the sin-offering pointed to Christ as a sacrifice, and the high priest represented Christ as a mediator, the scape-goat typified Satan, the author of sin, upon whom the sins of the truly penitent will finally be placed. When the high priest, by virtue of the blood of the sin-offering, removed the sins from the sanctuary, he placed them upon the scape-goat. When Christ, by virtue of his own blood, removes the sins of his people from the heavenly sanctuary at the close of his ministration, he will place them upon Satan” (4SP, pp. 266, 267, 1884).

“Satan not only bore the weight and punishment of his sins, but the sins of all the redeemed host had been placed upon him…” (1SG, p. 217, 1858; EW, pp. 294, 295, 1882).

Note: She believed the scapegoat to be Satan as taught by Crosier in 1847. In 1858 Ellen White said that Satan will have to bear the sins of the redeemed as well as his own and in 1884 she identified the scapegoat as Satan. >>

I did a thread on this subject, Ellen White's beliefs that Satan will bear the sins of the redeemed, a while back.

It seems to me that since Christ died for our sins, we don't need anyone else to do the same, willingly or unwillingly.

Link to thread:
SDA: Satan Will Die for Your Sins

Dale · Jun 18, 2019

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
When it comes to the word of God the message being spoken is more important than who brought it. If she quoted from other sources on purpose to prove a point then I see nothing wrong with that. The message still got out to those who had not heard it before, she acknowledged that some of what was written was taken from other works but it is not the authority of the writer she was quoting but the summation and explanation given for a certain subject, so there is no need for a citation. What matters is that most of what she wrote IS true such as the Sabbath day worship, the Mark of the Beast being the Abominable Sunday Law, and the Majority/Much of her prophesy on the End.

Stephen Disciple of ...: "What matters is that most of what she wrote IS true such as the Sabbath day worship, the Mark of the Beast being the Abominable Sunday Law, and the Majority/Much of her prophesy on the End."

Ellen White could not possibly have been more wrong about these matters. The Sabbath Commandment is labor law. The Sabbath Commandment says nothing about a day or worship.

There won't be a Sunday Law, abominable or otherwise. Any respect for Sunday or any other day as a day of rest is rapidly vanishing.

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Jun 19, 2019

Dale said:
Stephen Disciple of ...: "What matters is that most of what she wrote IS true such as the Sabbath day worship, the Mark of the Beast being the Abominable Sunday Law, and the Majority/Much of her prophesy on the End."

Ellen White could not possibly have been more wrong about these matters. The Sabbath Commandment is labor law. The Sabbath Commandment says nothing about a day or worship.

There won't be a Sunday Law, abominable or otherwise. Any respect for Sunday or any other day as a day of rest is rapidly vanishing.

The Sabbath commandment is part of God's eternal Moral Law written in stone and reaffirmed in the New Testament by the Apostles and Christ. Nowhere does it say it will be Abolished and we find those in the Last days who follow the Lord still keeping the Sabbath day and those in the New Heavens and the New Earth keeping the Sabbath day Sacred. The Sabbath Day is Honoring God from sunset to sunset(Friday sunset to Saturday sunset) and doing no work for yourself, only doing the Lords work, praying, and Studying.

There will indeed be a Sunday law(mark of the Beast). It is coming and hopefully they will implement it soon and bring us closer to the Lord's coming.

Dale · Jun 19, 2019

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
The Sabbath commandment is part of God's eternal Moral Law written in stone and reaffirmed in the New Testament by the Apostles and Christ. Nowhere does it say it will be Abolished and we find those in the Last days who follow the Lord still keeping the Sabbath day and those in the New Heavens and the New Earth keeping the Sabbath day Sacred. The Sabbath Day is Honoring God from sunset to sunset(Friday sunset to Saturday sunset) and doing no work for yourself, only doing the Lords work, praying, and Studying.

There will indeed be a Sunday law(mark of the Beast). It is coming and hopefully they will implement it soon and bring us closer to the Lord's coming.

StephenDisciple: "There will indeed be a Sunday law(mark of the Beast). It is coming and hopefully they will implement it soon and bring us closer to the Lord's coming."

Can you name one church that is in favor of this Sunday law that you fear?
The politicians obviously aren't going to do any such thing unless the churches demand it.
The churches aren't demanding it.

bbbbbbb · Jun 19, 2019

Dale said:
StephenDisciple: "There will indeed be a Sunday law(mark of the Beast). It is coming and hopefully they will implement it soon and bring us closer to the Lord's coming."

Can you name one church that is in favor of this Sunday law that you fear?
The politicians obviously aren't going to do any such thing unless the churches demand it.
The churches aren't demanding it.

Good point. Since the early twentieth century Sunday laws, along with all other blue laws, have been steadily abandoned until today when there are no legal restrictions on what one can and cannot do on Sunday.

Dale · Jun 20, 2019

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
The Sabbath commandment is part of God's eternal Moral Law written in stone and reaffirmed in the New Testament by the Apostles and Christ. Nowhere does it say it will be Abolished and we find those in the Last days who follow the Lord still keeping the Sabbath day and those in the New Heavens and the New Earth keeping the Sabbath day Sacred. The Sabbath Day is Honoring God from sunset to sunset(Friday sunset to Saturday sunset) and doing no work for yourself, only doing the Lords work, praying, and Studying.

There will indeed be a Sunday law(mark of the Beast). It is coming and hopefully they will implement it soon and bring us closer to the Lord's coming.

StephenDisciple: "The Sabbath commandment is part of God's eternal Moral Law written in stone and reaffirmed in the New Testament by the Apostles and Christ."

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. He collided with the Pharisees, Sadducees, and the scribes on that subject.

In Acts 15, there is an assembly of Apostles and other church leaders in Jerusalem, sometimes labeled the Council of Jerusalem. Here the Apostles lay down the conditions that Gentiles, non-Jews, must abide by to become Christians. Sexual morality is strongly affirmed as one of the conditions. Observance of the Sabbath is not one of the conditions, it is a characteristic of Jewish society but not required of Gentile converts. The Ten Commandments aren't mentioned either, although abstaining from idolatry and worship of multiple gods are assumed. Abstinence from murder, theft, and false witness is also assumed.

Nowhere in the New Testament are Christians told to observe a Sabbath. Nowhere in the New Testament are Christians specifically told that they must follow all of the Ten Commandments.

bbbbbbb · Jun 20, 2019

Dale said:
StephenDisciple: "The Sabbath commandment is part of God's eternal Moral Law written in stone and reaffirmed in the New Testament by the Apostles and Christ."

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. He collided with the Pharisees, Sadducees, and the scribes on that subject.

In Acts 15, there is an assembly of Apostles and other church leaders in Jerusalem, sometimes labeled the Council of Jerusalem. Here the Apostles lay down the conditions that Gentiles, non-Jews, must abide by to become Christians. Sexual morality is strongly affirmed as one of the conditions. Observance of the Sabbath is not one of the conditions, it is a characteristic of Jewish society but not required of Gentile converts. The Ten Commandments aren't mentioned either, although abstaining from idolatry and worship of multiple gods are assumed. Abstinence from murder, theft, and false witness is also assumed.

Nowhere in the New Testament are Christians told to observe a Sabbath. Nowhere in the New Testament are Christians specifically told that they must follow all of the Ten Commandments.

Now, our Catholic friends would embrace a similar argument by saying that just because nowhere in the New Testament is it stated that Mary consummated her marriage with Joseph, it must mean that she never did and, thus, remains a perpetual Virgin, the Queen of Heaven, Co-Mediatrix with her Son.

Dale · Jun 20, 2019

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
The Sabbath commandment is part of God's eternal Moral Law written in stone and reaffirmed in the New Testament by the Apostles and Christ. Nowhere does it say it will be Abolished and we find those in the Last days who follow the Lord still keeping the Sabbath day and those in the New Heavens and the New Earth keeping the Sabbath day Sacred. The Sabbath Day is Honoring God from sunset to sunset(Friday sunset to Saturday sunset) and doing no work for yourself, only doing the Lords work, praying, and Studying.

There will indeed be a Sunday law(mark of the Beast). It is coming and hopefully they will implement it soon and bring us closer to the Lord's coming.

StephenDisciple: "There will indeed be a Sunday law(mark of the Beast). It is coming and hopefully they will implement it soon and bring us closer to the Lord's coming."

Ellen White on Sunday Laws

"Persecuting rulers, ministers, and church members will conspire against them. With voice and pen, by boasts, threats, and ridicule, they will seek to overthrow their faith. By false representations and angry appeals, men will stir up the passions of the people. Not having a “Thus saith the Scriptures” to bring against the advocates of the Bible Sabbath, they will resort to oppressive enactments to supply the lack. To secure popularity and patronage, legislators will yield to the demand for Sunday laws. But those who fear God, cannot accept an institution that violates a precept of the Decalogue. On this battlefield will be fought the last great conflict in the controversy between truth and error. And we are not left in doubt as to the issue. Today, as in the days of Esther and Mordecai, the Lord will vindicate His truth and His people."

This is not happening. Seventh Day Adventists are not being persecuted. They operate chains of hospitals as well as schools. Ellen White says that "legislators" will "yield" to the demands of a public on fire for "Sunday laws." Again, this simply isn't happening.

The quote is found in Prophets and Kings, Kindle Locations 18,554 - 59.

White, Ellen G.. CONFLICT OF THE AGES: THE FIVE BOOKS. Patriarchs And Prophets; Prophets And Kings; The Desire Of Ages; The Acts Of The Apostles; The Great Controversy (Timeless Wisdom Collection) . Business and Leadership Publishing. Kindle Edition.

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Jun 20, 2019

Dale said:
StephenDisciple: "The Sabbath commandment is part of God's eternal Moral Law written in stone and reaffirmed in the New Testament by the Apostles and Christ."

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for man and not man for the Sabbath. He collided with the Pharisees, Sadducees, and the scribes on that subject.

In Acts 15, there is an assembly of Apostles and other church leaders in Jerusalem, sometimes labeled the Council of Jerusalem. Here the Apostles lay down the conditions that Gentiles, non-Jews, must abide by to become Christians. Sexual morality is strongly affirmed as one of the conditions. Observance of the Sabbath is not one of the conditions, it is a characteristic of Jewish society but not required of Gentile converts. The Ten Commandments aren't mentioned either, although abstaining from idolatry and worship of multiple gods are assumed. Abstinence from murder, theft, and false witness is also assumed.

Nowhere in the New Testament are Christians told to observe a Sabbath. Nowhere in the New Testament are Christians specifically told that they must follow all of the Ten Commandments.

He told them how to keep the Law, that by the commands they instituted it became a burden to keep the Lord's Day holy. Christ commanded us to keep it in a different way.

The Sabbath day was created for man(Mark 2:27-28) it was a covenant made in the beginning(Genesis 2:2;Hebrews 4:3) and restated in the Moral law on Mount Sinai(Exodus 31:13-18;Hebrews 4:4-5) it was given to the Jews who accepted the Lord God and were chosen by him(that is why he said it was a covenant with the Nation of Israel). The sabbath was given as a perpetual covenant for sanctification and promise to those who kept it holy(Exodus 31:13-14; Hebrews 4:9-11). When the kingdom was taken from the OT Jews and given to us(Matt 21:43; Romans 10:19,20; Acts 28:25-28) who are made Jews after the Circumcision of the heart and spirit(Romans 2:28-29; Acts 15:7-9; Romans 10:8; Colossians 2:11-13; Philippians 3:3) it was given to us(who are the new Jews, the people of God's Israel), being written in the fleshy tables of our hearts(2 Cor 3:2-6; Hebrews 4:9-10).

Christ who is lord of the Sabbath day(Matt 10:1-8; Mark 2:25-28;Luke 6:1-10) told us that the traditions of men added to the Sabbath were done(Luke 14:1-6) the same traditions spoken of by YHWH(Ez 20:13,16,18-21,24), that it was lawful to do the Lord's work on the Sabbath as well as do what we need to do(things that may or may not pertain to Godly work such as getting an animal out of a ditch/pit). Christ is the living word of God( John 1:1,14, Heb 4:12, Matt 10:44, Revelation 2:12,16, Isaiah 66:16, Eph 6:17) and Lord of the Sabbath day, he is the same yesterday today and tomorrow(Hebrews 13:8-9). Beings that he is both the living word of God and Lord of the Sabbath day it stands to reason that he would be the one to tell us the day was changed(or that it was no longer important). But nowhere in the bible do we find him saying this(or any of the Apostles for that matter).Instead we are told the seventh day Sabbath is kept in the New Heavens and the New Earth Isaiah 66:23. That it still remains to us(Hebrews 4:9)

Those who keep his Sabbath day(Saturday) are counted worthy of entering his Holy mountain in the last days.
Isaiah 56:1-12

Acts 15 the council gave them very basic commands to follow in the beginning so that it would not be to great a burden for them all at once(Acts 15:19,28). They sent chosen men out to give this command and to instruct them further in the Gospel and commands of Christ(Acts 15:25,27,32). Then when we look to the entirety of the New Testament we find Paul and the rest of the Apostles instructing them in the Full Doctrine of Christ and not just the few laws agreed upon to give them at first in Acts 15. We are told it was done in this way because they were in need of Milk and could not bear meat being just babes in Christ(1 Cor 3:1-2; Hebrews 5:11-14). But as we look through Scripture we find more than just abstaining from meat offered to idols, meat with blood in it meat that was strangled, and fornication being commanded against. Just from reading Romans 1 we can find over a dozen other commands about what is considered a sin worthy of Death.
Romans 1:
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

If that is not enough proof that Acts 15 was not the end all be all of commands from the Apostles then I will be more than happy to go through the New Testament commands given by the Apostles and Christ and Post them here for you to read.

Acts 13:14, Acts 13:42-44, Acts 15:21, Acts 16:13, Acts 17:1-3, Acts 18:4, Hebrews 4:1-12 Paul tells us the Sabbath day of rest remains and that we should fear if it should have left us or and that we should labor to enter into that rest. Also nowhere are we told it was Abolished or finished, the only Law said to be done away is the Mosaic Law written by the Hand of Moses and not the Eternal Law written by the Finger of God on Stone. Each of the Ten commandments is preached on and reaffirmed in the New Testament. But again no more proof is needed than just the clear reading of Scripture and the Fact that even in the New Heavens and New Earth people are still keeping the Sabbath Day holy.
Isaiah 66:
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Jun 20, 2019

Dale said:
StephenDisciple: "There will indeed be a Sunday law(mark of the Beast). It is coming and hopefully they will implement it soon and bring us closer to the Lord's coming."

Can you name one church that is in favor of this Sunday law that you fear?
The politicians obviously aren't going to do any such thing unless the churches demand it.
The churches aren't demanding it.

I don't need to fear any Church or Government, only the fury of God for keeping a false day or not being ready to die for him rather than take the mark when the government is killing my family and torturing me.

Churches and Governments will push for this Sunday law and enact it soon after Jerusalem is destroyed by all nations and the women are ravished and the Children are dashed to pieces before their mother's eyes(Zech 14:1-2, Isaiah 13:16).

Dale · Jun 21, 2019

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
He told them how to keep the Law, that by the commands they instituted it became a burden to keep the Lord's Day holy. Christ commanded us to keep it in a different way.

The Sabbath day was created for man(Mark 2:27-28) it was a covenant made in the beginning(Genesis 2:2;Hebrews 4:3) and restated in the Moral law on Mount Sinai(Exodus 31:13-18;Hebrews 4:4-5) it was given to the Jews who accepted the Lord God and were chosen by him(that is why he said it was a covenant with the Nation of Israel). The sabbath was given as a perpetual covenant for sanctification and promise to those who kept it holy(Exodus 31:13-14; Hebrews 4:9-11). When the kingdom was taken from the OT Jews and given to us(Matt 21:43; Romans 10:19,20; Acts 28:25-28) who are made Jews after the Circumcision of the heart and spirit(Romans 2:28-29; Acts 15:7-9; Romans 10:8; Colossians 2:11-13; Philippians 3:3) it was given to us(who are the new Jews, the people of God's Israel), being written in the fleshy tables of our hearts(2 Cor 3:2-6; Hebrews 4:9-10).

Christ who is lord of the Sabbath day(Matt 10:1-8; Mark 2:25-28;Luke 6:1-10) told us that the traditions of men added to the Sabbath were done(Luke 14:1-6) the same traditions spoken of by YHWH(Ez 20:13,16,18-21,24), that it was lawful to do the Lord's work on the Sabbath as well as do what we need to do(things that may or may not pertain to Godly work such as getting an animal out of a ditch/pit). Christ is the living word of God( John 1:1,14, Heb 4:12, Matt 10:44, Revelation 2:12,16, Isaiah 66:16, Eph 6:17) and Lord of the Sabbath day, he is the same yesterday today and tomorrow(Hebrews 13:8-9). Beings that he is both the living word of God and Lord of the Sabbath day it stands to reason that he would be the one to tell us the day was changed(or that it was no longer important). But nowhere in the bible do we find him saying this(or any of the Apostles for that matter).Instead we are told the seventh day Sabbath is kept in the New Heavens and the New Earth Isaiah 66:23. That it still remains to us(Hebrews 4:9)

Those who keep his Sabbath day(Saturday) are counted worthy of entering his Holy mountain in the last days.
Isaiah 56:1-12

Acts 15 the council gave them very basic commands to follow in the beginning so that it would not be to great a burden for them all at once(Acts 15:19,28). They sent chosen men out to give this command and to instruct them further in the Gospel and commands of Christ(Acts 15:25,27,32). Then when we look to the entirety of the New Testament we find Paul and the rest of the Apostles instructing them in the Full Doctrine of Christ and not just the few laws agreed upon to give them at first in Acts 15. We are told it was done in this way because they were in need of Milk and could not bear meat being just babes in Christ(1 Cor 3:1-2; Hebrews 5:11-14). But as we look through Scripture we find more than just abstaining from meat offered to idols, meat with blood in it meat that was strangled, and fornication being commanded against. Just from reading Romans 1 we can find over a dozen other commands about what is considered a sin worthy of Death.
Romans 1:
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

If that is not enough proof that Acts 15 was not the end all be all of commands from the Apostles then I will be more than happy to go through the New Testament commands given by the Apostles and Christ and Post them here for you to read.

Acts 13:14, Acts 13:42-44, Acts 15:21, Acts 16:13, Acts 17:1-3, Acts 18:4, Hebrews 4:1-12 Paul tells us the Sabbath day of rest remains and that we should fear if it should have left us or and that we should labor to enter into that rest. Also nowhere are we told it was Abolished or finished, the only Law said to be done away is the Mosaic Law written by the Hand of Moses and not the Eternal Law written by the Finger of God on Stone. Each of the Ten commandments is preached on and reaffirmed in the New Testament. But again no more proof is needed than just the clear reading of Scripture and the Fact that even in the New Heavens and New Earth people are still keeping the Sabbath Day holy.
Isaiah 66:
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Did Jesus say that the Sabbath is the greatest commandment? He did not.
Did Jesus say that the Sabbath is the Law and the Prophets? He did not.
What He did say is to love "the Lord your God" and love your neighbor, for these are the foundation of the Law and the Prophets.

The Greatest Commandment
34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Matthew 22:34-40 NIV

Dale · Jun 21, 2019

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
He told them how to keep the Law, that by the commands they instituted it became a burden to keep the Lord's Day holy. Christ commanded us to keep it in a different way.

The Sabbath day was created for man(Mark 2:27-28) it was a covenant made in the beginning(Genesis 2:2;Hebrews 4:3) and restated in the Moral law on Mount Sinai(Exodus 31:13-18;Hebrews 4:4-5) it was given to the Jews who accepted the Lord God and were chosen by him(that is why he said it was a covenant with the Nation of Israel). The sabbath was given as a perpetual covenant for sanctification and promise to those who kept it holy(Exodus 31:13-14; Hebrews 4:9-11). When the kingdom was taken from the OT Jews and given to us(Matt 21:43; Romans 10:19,20; Acts 28:25-28) who are made Jews after the Circumcision of the heart and spirit(Romans 2:28-29; Acts 15:7-9; Romans 10:8; Colossians 2:11-13; Philippians 3:3) it was given to us(who are the new Jews, the people of God's Israel), being written in the fleshy tables of our hearts(2 Cor 3:2-6; Hebrews 4:9-10).

Christ who is lord of the Sabbath day(Matt 10:1-8; Mark 2:25-28;Luke 6:1-10) told us that the traditions of men added to the Sabbath were done(Luke 14:1-6) the same traditions spoken of by YHWH(Ez 20:13,16,18-21,24), that it was lawful to do the Lord's work on the Sabbath as well as do what we need to do(things that may or may not pertain to Godly work such as getting an animal out of a ditch/pit). Christ is the living word of God( John 1:1,14, Heb 4:12, Matt 10:44, Revelation 2:12,16, Isaiah 66:16, Eph 6:17) and Lord of the Sabbath day, he is the same yesterday today and tomorrow(Hebrews 13:8-9). Beings that he is both the living word of God and Lord of the Sabbath day it stands to reason that he would be the one to tell us the day was changed(or that it was no longer important). But nowhere in the bible do we find him saying this(or any of the Apostles for that matter).Instead we are told the seventh day Sabbath is kept in the New Heavens and the New Earth Isaiah 66:23. That it still remains to us(Hebrews 4:9)

Those who keep his Sabbath day(Saturday) are counted worthy of entering his Holy mountain in the last days.
Isaiah 56:1-12

Acts 15 the council gave them very basic commands to follow in the beginning so that it would not be to great a burden for them all at once(Acts 15:19,28). They sent chosen men out to give this command and to instruct them further in the Gospel and commands of Christ(Acts 15:25,27,32). Then when we look to the entirety of the New Testament we find Paul and the rest of the Apostles instructing them in the Full Doctrine of Christ and not just the few laws agreed upon to give them at first in Acts 15. We are told it was done in this way because they were in need of Milk and could not bear meat being just babes in Christ(1 Cor 3:1-2; Hebrews 5:11-14). But as we look through Scripture we find more than just abstaining from meat offered to idols, meat with blood in it meat that was strangled, and fornication being commanded against. Just from reading Romans 1 we can find over a dozen other commands about what is considered a sin worthy of Death.
Romans 1:
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

If that is not enough proof that Acts 15 was not the end all be all of commands from the Apostles then I will be more than happy to go through the New Testament commands given by the Apostles and Christ and Post them here for you to read.

Acts 13:14, Acts 13:42-44, Acts 15:21, Acts 16:13, Acts 17:1-3, Acts 18:4, Hebrews 4:1-12 Paul tells us the Sabbath day of rest remains and that we should fear if it should have left us or and that we should labor to enter into that rest. Also nowhere are we told it was Abolished or finished, the only Law said to be done away is the Mosaic Law written by the Hand of Moses and not the Eternal Law written by the Finger of God on Stone. Each of the Ten commandments is preached on and reaffirmed in the New Testament. But again no more proof is needed than just the clear reading of Scripture and the Fact that even in the New Heavens and New Earth people are still keeping the Sabbath Day holy.
Isaiah 66:
23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the Lord.

Stephen Disciple in post #29:
"
The Sabbath day was created for man(Mark 2:27-28) it was a covenant made in the beginning(Genesis 2:2;Hebrews 4:3) and restated in the Moral law on Mount Sinai(Exodus 31:13-18;Hebrews 4:4-5)"

This isn't true at all. Genesis 2 says that God rested but there is no command given to us.

Contrary to what you say, in Genesis Chapter 9, God lays down the law for Noah and his descendants. Jews call these the Noahide laws. Just as the Sabbath is not issued as a law or custom to the Gentiles by the Council of Jerusalem in Acts 15, Sabbath observance is not given as a command to Noah or his descendants.

God’s Covenant With Noah
9 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the earth. 2 The fear and dread of you will fall on all the beasts of the earth, and on all the birds in the sky, on every creature that moves along the ground, and on all the fish in the sea; they are given into your hands. 3 Everything that lives and moves about will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.
4 “But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it. 5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand an accounting from every animal. And from each human being, too, I will demand an accounting for the life of another human being.
6 “Whoever sheds human blood,
by humans shall their blood be shed;
for in the image of God
has God made mankind.
7 As for you, be fruitful and increase in number; multiply on the earth and increase upon it.”
8 Then God said to Noah and to his sons with him: 9 “I now establish my covenant with you and with your descendants after you 10 and with every living creature that was with you—the birds, the livestock and all the wild animals, all those that came out of the ark with you—every living creature on earth. 11 I establish my covenant with you: Never again will all life be destroyed by the waters of a flood; never again will there be a flood to destroy the earth.”
12 And God said, “This is the sign of the covenant I am making between me and you and every living creature with you, a covenant for all generations to come: 13 I have set my rainbow in the clouds, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and the earth. 14 Whenever I bring clouds over the earth and the rainbow appears in the clouds, 15 I will remember my covenant between me and you and all living creatures of every kind. Never again will the waters become a flood to destroy all life. 16 Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.”
17 So God said to Noah, “This is the sign of the covenant I have established between me and all life on the earth.”

Genesis 9: 1-17 NIV

mmksparbud · Jun 21, 2019

Dale said:
When I say that Ellen White, the founder of the Seventh Day Adventist church, has been accused of plagiarism, you might jump to the conclusion that this comes from some hack writer. You might think it comes from an unauthorized biography.

The claim that decisive evidence of plagiarism has been found actually comes from Ron Graybill, Associate Secretary of the Ellen G. White Estate. His conclusions were presented at a General Conference of the SDA Church between November 15, 1981 and November 19, 1981.

To summarize Graybill's conclusions, the often repeated claim that Ellen White only had a third grade education is bogus. It was intended to reinforce the impression that her knowledge came from Divine revelation. She did read commentaries on the Bible and theological works. Theologians are often hesitant to make assertions that are difficult to prove. In many cases, E. White's contribution is to turn the "speculations and conjectures of her sources into statements of positive fact." She turned the suggestions of theologians into sweeping claims that her followers assumed to be absolute.

Borrowings appear in her prophetic writing and in specific visions, her Divine revelations . None of her writing can be said to be free from unacknowledged borrowings. This includes claims about God, Satan, and angels. One consequence of borrowing from diverse sources is that "literary beauty" cannot be evidence of "divine inspiration." She also made use of "literary assistants," putting her stamp of approval on the finished product. "Close paraphrasing" of E. White's sources are common.

Adventists need to not only read the Bible but compare Ellen White's doctrines to the Bible.

Link:

E.G. White’s Literary Work: An Update

Good grief that is soooo old news---she was totally cleared years ago.

Ellen G. White is not guilty of copyright infringement or plagiarism. This is the opinion of Vincent L. Ramik, senior partner of Diller, Ramik & Wight, Ltd., a lawyer who practices patent, trademark, and copyright law in Washington, D.C. Mr. Ramik undertook to research Mrs. White’s writings after Warren L. Johns, chief legal officer of the General Conference, retained the services of Diller, Ramik & Wight last April because of allegations made against Mrs. White by Walter Rea, at that time pastor of the Long Beach, California, church.
Ramik, a Roman Catholic, spent more than 300 hours researching about 1,000 relevant cases in American legal history. He concluded his 27-page legal opinion* with an unequivocal declaration: “Based upon our review of the facts and legal precedents . . . Ellen White was not a plagiarist, and her works did not constitute copyright infringement/piracy.”

https://adventistbiblicalresearch.org/sites/default/files/pdf/plagiarist.pdf

And FYI--chirch doctrines do not come from EGW but from the bible.

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Jun 21, 2019

Dale said:
Did Jesus say that the Sabbath is the greatest commandment? He did not.
Did Jesus say that the Sabbath is the Law and the Prophets? He did not.
What He did say is to love "the Lord your God" and love your neighbor, for these are the foundation of the Law and the Prophets.

The Greatest Commandment
34 Hearing that Jesus had silenced the Sadducees, the Pharisees got together. 35 One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Matthew 22:34-40 NIV

You do understand there are more than just two commands given by the Apostles and Christ correct?

Dale · Jun 21, 2019

mmksparbud said:
Good grief that is soooo old news---she was totally cleared years ago.

Ellen G. White is not guilty of copyright infringement or plagiarism. This is the opinion of Vincent L. Ramik, senior partner of Diller, Ramik & Wight, Ltd., a lawyer who practices patent, trademark, and copyright law in Washington, D.C. Mr. Ramik undertook to research Mrs. White’s writings after Warren L. Johns, chief legal officer of the General Conference, retained the services of Diller, Ramik & Wight last April because of allegations made against Mrs. White by Walter Rea, at that time pastor of the Long Beach, California, church.
Ramik, a Roman Catholic, spent more than 300 hours researching about 1,000 relevant cases in American legal history. He concluded his 27-page legal opinion* with an unequivocal declaration: “Based upon our review of the facts and legal precedents . . . Ellen White was not a plagiarist, and her works did not constitute copyright infringement/piracy.”

https://adventistbiblicalresearch.org/sites/default/files/pdf/plagiarist.pdf

And FYI--chirch doctrines do not come from EGW but from the bible.

Sparbud: << Ellen G. White is not guilty of copyright infringement or plagiarism. This is the opinion of Vincent L. Ramik, senior partner of Diller, Ramik & Wight, Ltd., a lawyer who practices patent, trademark, and copyright law in Washington, D.C. Mr. Ramik undertook to research Mrs. White’s writings after Warren L. Johns, chief legal officer of the General Conference, retained the services of Diller, Ramik & Wight last April because of allegations made against Mrs. White by Walter Rea, at that time pastor of the Long Beach, California, church.
Ramik, a Roman Catholic, spent more than 300 hours researching about 1,000 relevant cases in American legal history. He concluded his 27-page legal opinion* with an unequivocal declaration: “Based upon our review of the facts and legal precedents . . . Ellen White was not a plagiarist, and her works did not constitute copyright infringement/piracy.” >>

You mention Walter Rea. The claims that I passed along in the OP don't come from Walter Rea. They come from Ron Graybill, who was the Associate Secretary of the Ellen White estate.

Sparbud: "And FYI--chirch doctrines do not come from EGW but from the bible."

Nothing could be any further from the truth. SDA doctrines come from nowhere.

Ellen White's denial of a permanent hell is only one example of her believing anything she wanted to believe. The SDA church has followed her on almost everything she ever said.

mmksparbud · Jun 21, 2019

Dale said:
Sparbud: << Ellen G. White is not guilty of copyright infringement or plagiarism. This is the opinion of Vincent L. Ramik, senior partner of Diller, Ramik & Wight, Ltd., a lawyer who practices patent, trademark, and copyright law in Washington, D.C. Mr. Ramik undertook to research Mrs. White’s writings after Warren L. Johns, chief legal officer of the General Conference, retained the services of Diller, Ramik & Wight last April because of allegations made against Mrs. White by Walter Rea, at that time pastor of the Long Beach, California, church.
Ramik, a Roman Catholic, spent more than 300 hours researching about 1,000 relevant cases in American legal history. He concluded his 27-page legal opinion* with an unequivocal declaration: “Based upon our review of the facts and legal precedents . . . Ellen White was not a plagiarist, and her works did not constitute copyright infringement/piracy.” >>

You mention Walter Rea. The claims that I passed along in the OP don't come from Walter Rea. They come from Ron Graybill, who was the Associate Secretary of the Ellen White estate.

Sparbud: "And FYI--chirch doctrines do not come from EGW but from the bible."

Nothing could be any further from the truth. SDA doctrines come from nowhere.

Ellen White's denial of a permanent hell is only one example of her believing anything she wanted to believe. The SDA church has followed her on almost everything she ever said.

LOL---it was a Catholic lawyer that proved she did not plagiarize---you may, of course, not accept the decision of the court. And---you are certainly free top believe any silly thing you want. The truth of the matter is---all our doctrines are biblical---an everlasting burning hell is not and goes totally against the very character of God Himself. And there are other denominations that also do not believe in it and who keep the Sabbath without EGW! What you do not know, or understand or believe is this---the doctrines of the church were not dictated by any one person. They were biblically researched by a group of different denominations (there were no SDA yet). She only had revelations about them being correctly seen. Not one of them came strictly from her. We did not follow her---she followed what had been biblically researched by that group of people from different denominations. I do not quote her when standing on our doctrines, but the bible. The bible does not teach an immortal soul---it is of pagan, Greek origin. There haver been countless threads on the topic, not one of which can prove it, for even Christ did not preach it.

Mat_10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

And that is exactly what will happen in the lake of fire. Sorry if your hatred for someone deprives you of having them tortured for eternity. What if it is someone you love that is being tortured? God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked---much less in torturing them forever.

The Sabbath was kept by all first Christians, not Sunday---the 7th day is the Lord's day and He claimed it as such at creation. There is not one single verse in the bible that states the 1st day of the week is now the Sabbath instead of the 7th. God instituted it and only He can change it and He did not for even Jesus rested on the Sabbath in the tomb until the 1st day of the week. You could be rich if you find that verse for many have offered $1000's if it is found.
A command from God, written on stone and kept in the ark which is the very throne of God Himself, stands until He deems otherwise and will still be kept in the New Earth.

Isa 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Dale · Jun 21, 2019

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
I don't need to fear any Church or Government, only the fury of God for keeping a false day or not being ready to die for him rather than take the mark when the government is killing my family and torturing me.

Churches and Governments will push for this Sunday law and enact it soon after Jerusalem is destroyed by all nations and the women are ravished and the Children are dashed to pieces before their mother's eyes(Zech 14:1-2, Isaiah 13:16).

StephenDisciple, I am intrigued by your notion that Jerusalem will be destroyed. I'm not sure this is the right place to talk about prophecy, but here goes.

You quote Isaiah 13:16 as evidence that Jerusalem will be destroyed. Actually, Isaiah 13 is a prophecy against Babylon, as is obvious from verse 1.

13 A prophecy against Babylon that Isaiah son of Amoz saw:
Isaiah 13: 1 NIV

This is followed up in verses 19 and 20, a well known passage, which clearly tells us that the kingdom of the Babylonians "will be overthrown by God."

19 Babylon, the jewel of kingdoms,
the pride and glory of the Babylonians,
will be overthrown by God
like Sodom and Gomorrah.
20 She will never be inhabited
or lived in through all generations;
Isaiah 13: 19-20 NIV

In short, Isaiah Chapter 13 is about the fall of Babylon and doesn't tell us the future of Jerusalem.

Dale · Jun 21, 2019

StephenDiscipleofYHWH said:
I don't need to fear any Church or Government, only the fury of God for keeping a false day or not being ready to die for him rather than take the mark when the government is killing my family and torturing me.

Churches and Governments will push for this Sunday law and enact it soon after Jerusalem is destroyed by all nations and the women are ravished and the Children are dashed to pieces before their mother's eyes(Zech 14:1-2, Isaiah 13:16).

StephenDisciple, one way that we know that Jerusalem will not be destroyed is that Psalm 46 tells us that God will prevent that from happening when the nations come against Israel.

I'll use three different translations to make sure there is no mistake here. The crucial verses are verses 4 and 5. In all three translations, verse 4 says that Psalm 46 is about "the city of God." In the KJV, it is also "the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High." This can only refer to the Temple in Jerusalem. In the RSV, it is also "the holy habitation of the Most High." In the NIV, it is also "the holy place where the Most High dwells." Again, this can only be Jerusalem.

In verse 5 we are told that when the nations come against Israel and Jerusalem, God will help Israel "right early" in the KJV. The RSV uses the same phrase, God will help Israel "right early." The NIV says that God will help Israel "at the break of day." All agree, in the words of NIV, that Israel and Jerusalem "will not fall."

4 There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High.
5 God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early.
Psalm 46: 4-5 KJV

4 There is a river whose streams make glad the city of God,
the holy habitation of the Most High.
5 God is in the midst of her, she shall not be moved;
God will help her right early.
Psalm 46: 4-5 RSV

4 There is a river whose streams make glad the city of God,
the holy place where the Most High dwells.
5 God is within her, she will not fall;
God will help her at break of day.
Psalm 46: 4-5 NIV

mmksparbud · Jun 21, 2019

bbbbbbb said:
Good point. Since the early twentieth century Sunday laws, along with all other blue laws, have been steadily abandoned until today when there are no legal restrictions on what one can and cannot do on Sunday.

It is being worked on quite steadily.

European Sunday Alliance - Ahead of EU elections: what is next for work-free Sunday?

StephenDiscipleofYHWH · Jun 22, 2019

Dale said:
StephenDisciple, one way that we know that Jerusalem will not be destroyed is that Psalm 46 tells us that God will prevent that from happening when the nations come against Israel.

I'll use three different translations to make sure there is no mistake here. The crucial verses are verses 4 and 5. In all three translations, verse 4 says that Psalm 46 is about "the city of God." In the KJV, it is also "the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High." This can only refer to the Temple in Jerusalem. In the RSV, it is also "the holy habitation of the Most High." In the NIV, it is also "the holy place where the Most High dwells." Again, this can only be Jerusalem.

In verse 5 we are told that when the nations come against Israel and Jerusalem, God will help Israel "right early" in the KJV. The RSV uses the same phrase, God will help Israel "right early." The NIV says that God will help Israel "at the break of day." All agree, in the words of NIV, that Israel and Jerusalem "will not fall."

4 There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High.
5 God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early.
Psalm 46: 4-5 KJV

4 There is a river whose streams make glad the city of God,
the holy habitation of the Most High.
5 God is in the midst of her, she shall not be moved;
God will help her right early.
Psalm 46: 4-5 RSV

4 There is a river whose streams make glad the city of God,
the holy place where the Most High dwells.
5 God is within her, she will not fall;
God will help her at break of day.
Psalm 46: 4-5 NIV

Psalm 46 speaks does not speak of The city of Jerusalem on earth right now but of the New Jerusalem which comes down from heaven(revelation 21:2) after his coming with fire.
Psalm 46 kjv
6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: he uttered his voice, the earth melted.
7 The Lord of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.
8 Come, behold the works of the Lord, what desolations he hath made in the earth.
9 He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; he breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; he burneth the chariot in the fire.

What we find in Zech 14 though takes place before the Lord's coming in the Flesh with fire. Note the words, the day of the Lord cometh. Meaning the Lord still has not come at this time.
Zech 14
1. Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Isaiah 13:
16 Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.

After all nations are gathered and the women ravished and the city taken the Lord comes in the spirit and drives out all the nations who took jerusalem by standing spiritually on the MT of olives to part it in the midst and create a very great valley.
Zech 14:
3 Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.

4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

Ezekiel 11:23
23 And the glory of the Lord went up from the midst of the city, and stood upon the mountain which is on the east side of the city.

Only a residue of the people who were in Jerusalem will be spared death, or captivity.
The bible is a puzzle not a linear story, it must be pieced together by the guidance of the Holy spirit to be fully understood.

If you would like to know more about this we can discuss this further somewhere else or you can read the Shepherd's rod volume 1 and 2 to gain a better understanding of the valley of the Mountain and Jerusalem being taken.

SDA Founder Ellen White is a Plagiarist

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Senior Veteran

Senior Veteran

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads