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Albion

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I read that when a pope dies, posters are put up all over Italy urging people to pray for his soul. How long must he suffer in Purgatory? And why hasn't he, of all people, attained the salvation of his soul?
I don't know about the posters but the idea behind Purgatory is often missed, by both Catholics and non-Catholics. According to the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, the damned go to hell (okay, we all agree there) but the saved aren't going straight to heaven because they must first pay for the major (mortal) sins that they committed in life, although since confessed and forgiven. That is because it was an offense in the first place an requires compensation to be made, even if it is not for eternity. Also minor (venial) sins that would not keep anyone from heaven in themselves but are still sins are punished in Purgatory, too.

Now, think about that and you can see that almost everyone--according to this view--dies and goes to either hell or something that is like hell but does not last forever: Purgatory. That being the case, even Popes are facing it, which brings us to the appeal for prayers.

If the Pope does not wind up in hell but goes to Purgatory the church has another teaching, which is that the living can shorten the suffering of the deceased in Purgatory by praying for them. Not hell, but Purgatory.

How long anyone stays there, no one knows, but the great saints of the church said that they saw visions in which it was a lonnnnnng time, except of course that we don't think that there is time in the spirit world. So no one really knows.
 
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Augustus_33AD

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I don't know about the posters but the idea behind Purgatory is often missed, by both Catholics and non-Catholics. According to the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, the damned go to hell (okay, we all agree there) but the saved aren't going straight to heaven because they must pay for the major (mortal) sins that they committed in life, even if they were confessed and forgiven. That is because it was an offense an requires compensation to be made, even if it is not eternal. Also minor (venial) sins that would not keep anyone from heaven in themselves but are still sins are punished in Purgatory, too.

Now, think about that and you can see that almost everyone--according to this view--dies and goes to either hell or something that is like hell but does not last forever: Purgatory. That being the case, even Popes are facing it, which brings us to the appeal for prayers.

If the Pope does not wind up in hell but goes to Purgatory the church has another teaching, which is that the living can shorten the suffering of the deceased in Purgatory by praying for them. Not hell, but Purgatory.

How long anyone stays there, no one knows, but the great saints of the church said that they saw visions in which it was a lonnnnnng time, except of course that we don't think that there is time in the spirit world. So no one really knows.
He is correct
 
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Athanasius377

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Hi
Im wondering if i should become catholic. I like so much about it and agree with a lot of things. BUt how can i know those missing books are really taken from the bible, if its ok to pray to saints, purgatory...and being in the church but not 'active'? I just wanna know your thoughts/ And this is the church apparently that peter founded and the true church
You like asking easy questions, eh? Just teasing. I’m not going to bash the RCC here and I think a lot of the issues Rome has have already been brought up so I won’t rehash them. What I would say is to ask a good parish priest about the points you mention. The questions I would ask are

1. What is the infallible source of Christian teaching?
2. Is the atonement of Jesus Christ sufficient for salvation or do you ask a Christian required to Do something in whole or in part?
3. Are the claims of Rome consistent with the earliest historical record?

If you can answer those questions then I believe you will have your answer.
 
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PoppyB

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I don't know about the posters but the idea behind Purgatory is often missed, by both Catholics and non-Catholics. According to the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, the damned go to hell (okay, we all agree there) but the saved aren't going straight to heaven because they must first pay for the major (mortal) sins that they committed in life, although since confessed and forgiven. That is because it was an offense in the first place an requires compensation to be made, even if it is not for eternity. Also minor (venial) sins that would not keep anyone from heaven in themselves but are still sins are punished in Purgatory, too.

Now, think about that and you can see that almost everyone--according to this view--dies and goes to either hell or something that is like hell but does not last forever: Purgatory. That being the case, even Popes are facing it, which brings us to the appeal for prayers.

If the Pope does not wind up in hell but goes to Purgatory the church has another teaching, which is that the living can shorten the suffering of the deceased in Purgatory by praying for them. Not hell, but Purgatory.

How long anyone stays there, no one knows, but the great saints of the church said that they saw visions in which it was a lonnnnnng time, except of course that we don't think that there is time in the spirit world. So no one really knows.
Interesting.
 
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PoppyB

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According to the teaching of the Roman Catholic Church, the damned go to hell (okay, we all agree there) but the saved aren't going straight to heaven because they must first pay for the major (mortal) sins that they committed in life,
I believe that Jesus paid the full price for my sin with his blood. He ransomed me and I was forgiven when I turned to him in repentance and asked him into my life. I believe that I am now sinless in God's eyes although not yet perfect. I believe that I already have eternal life as I am now in Christ with all my transgressions written off, forgiven and forgotten and on the day I turned to Christ and renounced evil I was born again and became a new creation and part of a Holy Nation and a Royal Priesthood and am no longer a sinner but a saint. I believe I do not need the intercession of a priest as I now have direct access to the throne of God.
 
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Augustus_33AD

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I believe that Jesus paid the full price for my sin with his blood. He ransomed me and I was forgiven when I turned to him in repentance and asked him into my life. I believe that I am now sinless in God's eyes although not yet perfect. I believe that I already have eternal life as I am now in Christ with all my transgressions written off, forgiven and forgotten and on the day I turned to Christ and renounced evil I was born again and became a new creation and part of a Holy Nation and a Royal Priesthood and am no longer a sinner but a saint. I believe I do not need the intercession of a priest as I now have direct access to the throne of God.
The sins are already payed for. What must be paid is the glory you have detracted from God. Say I steal your pencil, I ask your forgiveness, you forgive me, but I still have to give the pencil back. It's kinda like that
 
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thecolorsblend

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NOT SO.

The Bible specifically says, without any other possible interpretation, that there is only one God, one faith, one baptism, and one way to God the Father – and that is only through His Son Jesus Christ and His sacrificial death on the cross.

That is ONLY found in the Bible!!!

If my facts are in error, please take the time to respond to the Catholic teachings which are not found in the Christian Bible...…..
1. Calling the Priests "Father" is forbidden.
2. Praying repetitive words using Rosary beads is forbidden.
3. More praise to the Virgin Mary
4. The Pope says only very special dead Catholic people qualify to be called "saints".
5. The Pope decided to reserve the title of "priest" to worn by church leaders only.
6. Celibacy was first enforced for priests and bishops by Pope Gregory VII.
7. The Catholic church baptizes babies by sprinkling a little water on them.
8. Catholics are taught that only the priests can understand the Bible.
9. The RCC says that the Pope can change what is in the Bible if he wants.
The expression goes that just a little bit of knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

If you ever doubt that, take a gander at the "points" raised in this post.
 
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Anthony Edgar

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Calling the Priests "Father" is forbidden
Nonsense. For starters, Jesus says don't call "ANYONE ON EARTH your father" - so does this mean a child cannot call its biological father, "Father"? Of course not! Jesus wasn't talking literally, obviously.

Jesus also says in the same passage (Matt 23), don't call anyone "teacher". What? So a student can't say "There goes Mr. Brown; he's my teacher at school"? Quite obviously, Jesus wasn't talking literally.

Read your Bible - it's describes the apostles addressing the Jewish elders as "Fathers". Explain that.
 
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Anthony Edgar

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Good grief, in 100 AD, Ignatius was teaching that the Eucharist is Christ's flesh and blood. Clearly that wasnt in the bible....yet. Heretic I say!^_^
The Church is also described as "Catholic" as early as AD106.
 
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concretecamper

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I think that is unfair characterization of everyone in this thread. I thought Albion gave a pretty accurate and fair explanation of purgatory.
Well, it was not as blatently false as usual, so I'll give credit on that end. But the characterization given was not all true.

I'll look on the bright side, holding people accountable for what they say is having a positive effect on truth. So I'll give a :oldthumbsup: to him.
 
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PoppyB

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The sins are already payed for. What must be paid is the glory you have detracted from God. Say I steal your pencil, I ask your forgiveness, you forgive me, but I still have to give the pencil back. It's kinda like that
Where does it say that in the bible? I never heard of it before.
 
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If you prefer to worship in a Religion that believes in man made doctrines and practices which are NOT found in the Bible, then Yes, the Catholic church would be a good fit for you.

I will be glad to list several practices that are done by the Catholic religion which can not be found in the Bible and in most cases are that Jesus.
"forbidden" by the Bible...………..
1. Calling the Priests "Father" is forbidden.
2. Praying repetitive words using Rosary beads is forbidden.
3. More praise to the Virgin Mary
4. The Pope says only very special dead Catholic people qualify to be called "saints".
5. The Pope decided to reserve the title of "priest" to worn by church leaders only.
6. Celibacy was first enforced for priests and bishops by Pope Gregory VII.
7. The Catholic church baptizes babies by sprinkling a little water on them.
8. Catholics are taught that only the priests can understand the Bible.
9. The RCC says that the Pope can change what is in the Bible if he wants.
Hard to know where to start. So much wrongness.
 
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PoppyB

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Mathew 5:26
Matthew5 25-26 ‘Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

Not sure how this describes purgatory. I have yet to be quoted a scripture that clearly describes it.
 
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Augustus_33AD

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Matthew5 25-26 ‘Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.

Not sure how this describes purgatory. I have yet to be quoted a scripture that clearly describes it.
Wrong passage then I suppose. There's more and it's best explained here:
Purgatory
 
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Albion

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