I believe we are entering the time soon

Douggg said:

No, it is not. You have the sequence mixed up.

Jesus descends from heaven to earth. Then he executes judgement on the evil men of the world, including them in Isaiah 63.

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No, you are wrong!

The coming in Isaiah 63:1-6 is not the same coming in Revelation 19 and does not happen after Revelation 19.

In Revelation 19, Jesus comes with an army from heaven following Him.

In Isaiah 63, Jesus comes alone with no one to help him execute God's wrath. This is another evidence He comes to earth before Revelation 19 and later goes back up to heaven for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb just before Armageddon.

Isaiah 63:1-6 NKJV
1 Who is this who comes from Edom, With dyed garments from Bozrah, This One who is glorious in His apparel, Traveling in the greatness of His strength?-- "I who speak in righteousness, mighty to save."
2 Why is Your apparel red, And Your garments like one who treads in the winepress?
3 "I have trodden the winepress alone, And from the peoples no one was with Me. For I have trodden them in My anger, And trampled them in My fury; Their blood is sprinkled upon My garments, And I have stained all My robes.
4 For the day of vengeance is in My heart, And the year of My redeemed has come.
5 I looked, but there was no one to help, And I wondered That there was no one to uphold; Therefore My own arm brought salvation for Me; And My own fury, it sustained Me.
6 I have trodden down the peoples in My anger, Made them drunk in My fury, And brought down their strength to the earth."

In the coming in Revelation 19, Jesus descends upon the Valley of Meggido and ends the 7 year tribulation after defeating the a/c and his army at Armageddon.

The battle in Bozrah, Jordan happens around the middle of the second half of the tribulation. Bozrah was the capital city of the Edomites in ancient Jordan.

Jeremiah 25:17-26 New Living Translation (NLT)
17 So I took the cup of anger from the Lord and made all the nations drink from it—every nation to which the Lord sent me. 18 I went to Jerusalem and the other towns of Judah, and their kings and officials drank from the cup. From that day until this, they have been a desolate ruin, an object of horror, contempt, and cursing. 19 I gave the cup to Pharaoh, king of Egypt, his attendants, his officials, and all his people, 20 along with all the foreigners living in that land. I also gave it to all the kings of the land of Uz and the kings of the Philistine cities of Ashkelon, Gaza, Ekron, and what remains of Ashdod. 21 Then I gave the cup to the nations of Edom, Moab, and Ammon, 22 and the kings of Tyre and Sidon, and the kings of the regions across the sea. 23 I gave it to Dedan, Tema, and Buz, and to the people who live in distant places. 24 I gave it to the kings of Arabia, the kings of the nomadic tribes of the desert, 25 and to the kings of Zimri, Elam, and Media. 26 And I gave it to the kings of the northern countries, far and near, one after the other—all the kingdoms of the world. And finally, the king of Babylon himself drank from the cup of the Lord’s anger.


The list about is the order Christ will execute God's wrath during the entire 2nd half of the tribulation.

Christ begins at Jerusalem during the AoD (midpoint) and then the rest of Israel (verse 18), then all the nations of Islam across the Middle East, not Europe.

Jesus later does battle at Bozrah in verse 21 when He invades Edom.

Jesus finishes God's wrath at the end of the tribulation after killing the a/c (King of Babylon from the north) verse 26.

Notice there's no mentioning of Jesus invading Rome or anywhere in Europe? This makes your Jewish false messiah from a revived Roman empire from the EU theory a failure.

Douggg said:

No, it is not. You have the sequence mixed up.

Jesus descends from heaven to earth. Then he executes judgement on the evil men of the world, including them in Isaiah 63.

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You need proof Douggg, not theories.

Now where in the bible does it says Jesus will go do battle at Bozrah after Armageddon.

Douggg said:

Ezekiel 38 indicates that one of the invaders of Gog/Magog will be Russia.

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OK than, where in Ezekiel 38 does it say Russia will invade Israel?

As long Netanyahu and Putin are leaders of their respected countries, Russia will NEVER invade Israel. Putin and Netanyahu are very very close friends. And Putin also loves Israel.


There's a New Alliance in the Middle East
Russia, the United States and Israel are uniting against Iran, making it clear to Bashar Assad who will determine the future of the region.

There's a new alliance in the Middle East

'Putin believes in Israel, is a fan of Netanyahu'

Trump: 'Putin believes in Israel, is a fan of Netanyahu'

Netanyahu, Trump and Putin: A love story

Netanyahu, Trump and Putin: A love story

Netanyahu is implicitly touted by Trump and Putin in his fight for re-election

Netanyahu is implicitly touted by Trump and Putin in his fight for re-election - DEBKAfile

Here, Putin and Trump are helping Netanyahu win his re-election.

Douggg said:

The issue is your claim that the False Prophet will be the muslim Jesus - Isa. Not that the image the False Prophet has the people of the world make will be an idol or not. It will be an idol.

And Jesus would never make the peoples of the world make an idol. Therefore your claim that the False Prophet will be perceived by the muslims to be Jesus - is invalid.

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Read the bible Douggg. Revelation 13 is about the false prophet (Isa, the fake Jesus), not the real Jesus.

The people are already worshiping the beast as mentioned in verse 4. By not the people will anything he tells them to do, even worship an image of him.

Example: You say you're a Christian. Do you not have an image of the cross in your avatar?

They are then told to make an image to the beast way down in verse 14.

See also in verse 14: he deceives those who dwell on the earth

When you're deceived, you'll listen to anything the enemy tells you to do, even twist the bible to make it say what you want it to say.

Therefore, your argument is invalid.

Revelation 13:3-14 NKJV
3 And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly wound was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast.
4 So they worshiped the dragon who gave authority to the beast; and they worshiped the beast, saying, "Who is like the beast? Who is able to make war with him?"
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.
6 Then he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme His name, His tabernacle, and those who dwell in heaven.
7 It was granted to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them. And authority was given him over every tribe, tongue, and nation.
8 All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If anyone has an ear, let him hear.
10 He who leads into captivity shall go into captivity; he who kills with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
11 Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon.
12 And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.
14 And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived.

Douggg said:

I never said the False Prophet would be "Elijah". I said he will likely claim to be Elijah.

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Where in the bible does it say the false prophet will claim to be Elijah?

Douggg said:

It's not in the bible that Jesus appears to anyone having only one eye, or a bulging like a grape eye. Therefore, Jesus can't be confused by muslims to be the dajjal.

So your claim that the real Jesus will be confused by the muslims to be the real Jesus is invalid, because your claim is not backed up by the bible.

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Who said it was in the bible? Provide a quote please of me having said it's in the bible.

Douggg said:

You haven't said it is in the bible - you can't say it is in the bible, because there is no bible correlation with your claim that the real Jesus will be the muslim dajjal.

The Antichrist - will not be the Muslim Mahdi.
The False Prophet - will not be the Muslim Jesus - Isa.
The real Jesus - will not be the Muslim dajjal.

The whole theory that the Antichrist will be the Muslim Mahdi is a bust, invalid.

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You need proof Douggg, not theories.

Douggg, all the people and countries God will judge during the tribulation is listed below. Other than Israel, all people and countries below are Islamic nations.

That could only mean one thing.

The Antichrist - will be the Muslim Mahdi.
The False Prophet - will be the Muslim Jesus - Isa.
The real Jesus - will be the Muslim dajjal.

If you have no proof, your theory is a bust, invalid.

Jeremiah 25:17-26 New Living Translation (NLT)
17 So I took the cup of anger from the Lord and made all the nations drink from it—every nation to which the Lord sent me. 18 I went to Jerusalem and the other towns of Judah, and their kings and officials drank from the cup. From that day until this, they have been a desolate ruin, an object of horror, contempt, and cursing. 19 I gave the cup to Pharaoh, king of Egypt, his attendants, his officials, and all his people, 20 along with all the foreigners living in that land. I also gave it to all the kings of the land of Uz and the kings of the Philistine cities of Ashkelon, Gaza, Ekron, and what remains of Ashdod. 21 Then I gave the cup to the nations of Edom, Moab, and Ammon, 22 and the kings of Tyre and Sidon, and the kings of the regions across the sea. 23 I gave it to Dedan, Tema, and Buz, and to the people who live in distant places. 24 I gave it to the kings of Arabia, the kings of the nomadic tribes of the desert, 25 and to the kings of Zimri, Elam, and Media. 26 And I gave it to the kings of the northern countries, far and near, one after the other—all the kingdoms of the world. And finally, the king of Babylon himself drank from the cup of the Lord’s anger.

Douggg said:

The speaker is in error because a Jew can be of any nation, and can even be from the city of Rome. Although I don't think it has to be that specific, just that the person has to be leader of Europe when he first emerges.

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Where does it say in the bible the antichrist will be a leader of Europe? Proof?

Islam on the rise. The EU and Europe falling apart. You have things backward Douggg.

Europe 'coming apart before our eyes', say 30 top intellectuals
Europe 'coming apart before our eyes', say 30 top intellectuals

Doug Casey Says the EU’s Collapse Is Now “Imminent”
Doug Casey Says the EU’s Collapse Is Now “Imminent” - International Man

Seville90210 said:

OK than, where in Ezekiel 38 does it say Russia will invade Israel?

As long Netanyahu and Putin are leaders of their respected countries, Russia will NEVER invade Israel. Putin and Netanyahu are very very close friends. And Putin also loves Israel.

There's a New Alliance in the Middle East
Russia, the United States and Israel are uniting against Iran, making it clear to Bashar Assad who will determine the future of the region.

There's a new alliance in the Middle East

'Putin believes in Israel, is a fan of Netanyahu'

Trump: 'Putin believes in Israel, is a fan of Netanyahu'

Netanyahu, Trump and Putin: A love story

Netanyahu, Trump and Putin: A love story

Netanyahu is implicitly touted by Trump and Putin in his fight for re-election

Netanyahu is implicitly touted by Trump and Putin in his fight for re-election - DEBKAfile

Here, Putin and Trump are helping Netanyahu win his re-election.

Click to expand...

The bible doesn't say Putin. It may be Putin, but it is not for certain.

Russia is the one who has the expansive military force to match that it will take 7 years of burning the weapons of Gog's army in the aftermath. There is plenty of internet material on the topic of Gog/Magog with Russia as the main military force. I don't want to go off on a tangent.

The issue is the end of Islam before the 7 years begin. Russia is in the middle east right now heavily involved with the muslims. Something will trigger Gog/Magog but we don't know what it will be right now.

Seville90210 said:

Read the bible Douggg. Revelation 13 is about the false prophet (Isa, the fake Jesus), not the real Jesus.

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A fake Jesus, in order to convince people he is Jesus - would have to do what Jesus would do... which Jesus would not have people make an idol, the image of the beast, and have people worship it.

Seville90210 said:

In Isaiah 63, Jesus comes alone with no one to help him execute God's wrath. This is another evidence He comes to earth before Revelation 19 and later goes back up to heaven for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb just before Armageddon.

Click to expand...

It is not meaning Jesus is alone in the sense that you are understanding it.

If you read the whole chapter in context, Jesus is relating Himself to Israel. There will be no-one from the people of Israel, to help Jesus in that day destroy their enemies because no one of them is worthy, nor able.

The text of Isaiah 62, 63, 64 is talking about the end times when Jerusalem and Israel will be restored, and be in right standing with God.

Seville90210 said:

Example: You say you're a Christian. Do you not have an image of the cross in your avatar?

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The image is not an idol because no-one is worshiping it, nor is it intended to be worshiped.

Seville90210 said:

When you're deceived, you'll listen to anything the enemy tells you to do, even twist the bible to make it say what you want it to say.

Therefore, your argument is invalid.

Click to expand...

The false prophet actions are not what Jesus would do. And if the person were claiming to be Jesus - he cannot do things contrary to what Jesus would do.

He won't be claiming or perceived to be Jesus. He will be speaking against Jesus.

Therefore your argument that the False Prophet will perceived to be Jesus - is invalid.

Seville90210 said:

Who said it was in the bible? Provide a qIuote please of me having said it's in the bible.

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You are claiming when Jesus comes that muslims are going to confuse the real Jesus as being the dajjal, because you say Jesus is going to appear to them as having one eye or a bulging like a grape eye.

But what does the bible say? Does it say that Jesus is going to appear to unbelievers (Muslims) as having one eye or a bulging like a grape eye?

No, it doesn't. Therefore, your claim is invalid, as is the Muslim prophecies about the dajjal.
_________________________________________________________

How are the muslim prophecies going to be fulfilled, with the dajjal as the real Jesus - if the bible doesn't say Jesus will appear that way to anyone?

Seville90210 said:

Where in the bible does it say the false prophet will claim to be Elijah?

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The bible doesn't say that the false prophet will claim to be Elijah.

But there are reasons to think that he will claim to be Elijah.

keras said: ↑
3/ The descriptions of the glorious Return do not say Jesus will come in vengeance and wrath. He will simply dispose of the attacking armies by the Sword of His Word and chain up Satan.

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LittleLambofJesus said: ↑
You do err not knowing the Scriptures...........
What does Luke 21:22-23 mean to you? It was the Jewish Rebels/Zealots and the corrupt murderous Jewish Rulers and their Temple that God sent the Roman army to destroy..................

John 11:48
"If-ever we may be be letting Him thus, all shall be believing in Him.
And shall be coming the Romans and they shall be taking away of Us and the Place and the Nation
[Reve 6:6/14:8]

Luke 21:
22 That days of vengeance<1557> these are, of the to be fulfilled<4130> all the having been written
23 “But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days!
For there will be great distress in the land and wrath upon this people.

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Douggg said:

I watched the 3 parts of the the 4 part video series. But can't find a link to part 4. I need a link to part 4 of the video.

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He hasn't put up part 4 yet that I know of..

He also has a pretty good vid up on the last Jewish Rebel/Zealot stronghold, Masada:

The fortress at Masada in Israel

LittleLambofJesus said:

I really had not studied on Masada much until I watched a video of it from a person who had made 3 of 4 videos on 70ad Jerusalem.

It has been mentioned that a lot of Christian Jews had fled Jerusalem when they had heard reports of the Roman campaign against Jewish rebel cities and making their way to the City. The City most often mentioned the Christian Jews fled to was Pella.

But a group of Jewish Zealots fled to Masada, the final Jewish fortress stronghold left.

Masada - Bible History Online

Decades after Jesus’ death, Zealots engineered a revolt against Rome. The uprising was brutally stamped out and ended with Jerusalem’s destruction in 70 AD.
Survivors fled to Masada, a fortress built by Herod near the Dead Sea. Today, the excavated remains of Masada have become a national symbol for all Israelis.

Here 900 Zealots held out until the year 73. Then, the inevitable day came when 15,000 Roman troops breached its walls. Since it was late in the day, the Romans delayed the final attack until dawn. That night the survivors met and voted for suicide, rather than for capture...................

At dawn, the Romans poured through the breached walls. Fires burned quietly everywhere. A ghostly stillness hung over the air. Finally, 2 old women and 3 small children came out of hiding to tell the story. The contemporary Jewish historian Josephus concludes his report of Masada with these striking words:

"When the Romans saw the mass of slain, they were unable to take pleasure in the sight, even though the people were their enemies." -Jewish Wars FLAVIUS JOSEPHUS

The tragedy at Masada and the destruction of Jerusalem was the inevitable outcome that the Jewish leaders and their followers would face for the tragedy of all tragedies when they forced the hand of Pilate to order the crucifixion of their Messiah.

Luke 13:34-35 "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the one who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, but you were not willing! Behold! Your house is left to you desolate; and assuredly, I say to you, you shall not see Me until the time comes when you say, 'Blessed is He who comes in the name of the LORD!' "
========================================
What I like about this vid is that it gives a summary of the entire events from the start of the Jewish wars in 63ad.

Look at what the Romans had to engineer in order to scale the walls!!!
They had to almost literally build a small mountain!

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https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html

WARS AND RUMORS OF WARS 1ST CENTURY ISRAEL, JUDEA AND JERUSALEM

Matthew 24:6
“Yet ye shall be being about to be hearing battles and hearings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled<2360>, for is binding to becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Mark 13:7
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and hearings of battles, be seeing! be not be being troubled for is binding to be becoming,
but not as yet the End<5056>
Luke 21:9
“Yet whenever ye should be hearing battles and tumults<181>, no may be being frightened<4422>, for is binding these to be becoming,
but not immediately the End<5056>

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http://www.preteristarchive.com/ARTchive/Masada/index.html

By Joel Leyden
Israel News Agency

Masada----October 21......There are few places in Israel that are as dramatic in both story and terrain as Masada. It is a magical place. One which connects the burnt desert ground to the soft blue sky above.

As such, it draws millions of tourists, Israel citizens, Israel Defense Forces ceremonies and children.

Massada lends itself to a fairy tale legend, although the end is not as white and clean as Snow White or Sleeping Beauty. That the Jews who committed suicide on top of this majestic, towering rock, have earned a bad name for themselves. The Romans called them "rebels," the Jews described them as zealots or fanatics but I would label them as a people who truly cherished freedom.

Masada today is one of the Jewish people's greatest symbols. Israel soldiers take an oath there: "Masada shall not fall again." Next to Jerusalem, it is the most popular destination of Jewish tourists visiting Israel.

Today Massada has become a symbol for men who cherish freedom. The defiant cry of recruits to the Israel Defence Forces Armoured Unit swearing the oath of allegiance in an annual ceremony on its summit: ``Massada shall never fall again!''
==================================
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Seville 90210, (and anyone else who thinks the Mahdi will be the biblical Antichrist)

The sequence of appearance in muslim prophecies are....

First the Mahdi > then the dajjal > then Isa. In muslim prophecies, Isa don't appear until after the Mahdi is in a big battle with the dajjal.

In you claim that the Mahdi will be the biblical Antichrist....to match with the muslim sequence, it would have to be this...

First the Mahdi (the Antichrist) > then the dajjal (the coming real Jesus) > then Isa (the false prophet)

Don't you see that is an impossibility?
_________________________________________________________

Tommorrow, some muslim could come along and claim "I am the Mahdi ! ". He could even gain a bunch of followers. And some Christians might say - oh, there's the Antichrist. Another version of Obama is the Antichrist, or Kissenger is the Antichrist, or the Pope John Paul is the Antichrist, etc.

But what can't happen is step 2, the dajjal appear - because there is no-one in bible prophecy to play that part, having one eye or a bulging like a grape eye.

If step 2 can't happen, then step 3 - Isa - can't happen.

You aren't wrong, we're scary close:

Arbown said:

You aren't wrong, we're scary close:

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