Is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?

Status
Not open for further replies.

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,560
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,791.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
The new covenant replaces the old covenant as the means to be right with God. It does not cancel the promises made to the children of Israel, regarding the land of Israel.
No; we Christians will get the Land because we are the children of the Promise. Galatians 3:26-29
 
Upvote 0

throughfiierytrial

Truth-Lover
Supporter
Apr 7, 2014
2,836
794
✟516,876.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The promise of the restoration of the nation of Israel is found in the old covenant:

Deuteronomy 30:1-5 When all these things come upon you—the blessings and curses I have set before you—and you call them to mind in all the nations to which the LORD your God has banished you, and when you and your children return to the LORD your God and obey His voice with all your heart and all your soul according to everything I am giving you today, then He will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you and gather you from all the nations to which the LORD your God has scattered you. Even if you have been banished to the ends of the earth, He will gather you and return you from there. And the LORD your God will bring you into the land your fathers possessed, and you will take possession of it. He will cause you to prosper and multiply more than your fathers. The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, and you will love Him with all your heart and all your soul, so that you may live.

The Old testament prophecies of the restoration of the land of Israel are rooted in the clause of Deuteronomy 30:1-5. Several examples include:

Jeremiah 29:10-14 For thus says the Lord: When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the Lord, and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you, declares the Lord, and I will bring you back to the place from which I sent you into exile.

Ezekiel 39:25-28 Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and will have compassion on the whole house of Israel, and I will be jealous for My holy name. They will forget their disgrace and all the treachery they committed against Me, when they dwell securely in their land, with no one to frighten them. When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them out of the lands of their enemies, I will show My holiness in them in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the LORD their God, when I regather them to their own land, after exiling them among the nations, not leaving any of them behind

Amos 9:14-15 I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them,” says the Lord your God.

This was found fulfilled once under the old covenant, when those from the southern kingdom and northern kingdom returned to the land after the Babylonian exile.

Ezra 1:5 Then rose up the heads of the fathers’ houses of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests and the Levites, everyone whose spirit God had stirred to go up to rebuild the house of the Lord that is in Jerusalem.

1 Chronicles 9:1-4 So all Israel was recorded in genealogies, and these are written in the Book of the Kings of Israel. And Judah was taken into exile in Babylon because of their breach of faith. Now the first to dwell again in their possessions in their cities were Israel, the priests, the Levites, and the temple servants. And some of the people of Judah, Benjamin, Ephraim, and Manasseh lived in Jerusalem: Uthai the son of Ammihud, son of Omri, son of Imri, son of Bani, from the sons of Perez the son of Judah

However, the old covenant ended and was superseded by the new covenant through the blood of Christ.


Hebrews 10:9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second

Hebrews 9:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Additionally, the old covenant was only a shadow that was meant to point to Christ, and not the true reality.

Hebrews 10:1 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities,

colossians 2:16-17 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.


The old covenant is no longer in effect, as it was superseded by the new covenant. Thus, the promises of restoration to the land are no longer a valid.

an Earthly example to help understand:
I was single and created a will in which my best friend would inherit my estate in the event of my death. However, I later married and changed that will so that my wife, and not my friend, would inherit my estate in the event of my death. The new will cancels the old will, and thus my best friend would not inherit my estate.


So is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?
I say no, the land restoration promise to the nation Israel is not found in the NT.
The promise of gathering all the Israelites from the far nations of the world once more can be seen as fulfilled already in the OT as you have outlined. There is additional promise for Israel in these words, used again elsewhere in the OT, and that promise is speaking of a gathering of them through faith in Christ and the New Jerusalem inheritance.
 
Upvote 0

throughfiierytrial

Truth-Lover
Supporter
Apr 7, 2014
2,836
794
✟516,876.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The new covenant in Christ is offered to gentiles.

The gentiles under the new covenant are not included in the land restoration to the nation of Israel - because the church, which includes gentiles, has not replaced Israel. So land restoration is not in the New Testament.

The new covenant replaces the old covenant as the means to be right with God. It does not cancel the promises made to the children of Israel, regarding the land of Israel.
I say maybe to your response. The "land" is representative of heaven...the New Jerusalem.Even in the OT, God was pointing to Canaan as a type of heaven...the promised land; the land of rest.
 
  • Like
Reactions: claninja
Upvote 0

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,875
USA
✟580,110.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The promise of the restoration of the nation of Israel is found in the old covenant:

Deuteronomy 30:1-5 When all these things come upon you—the blessings and curses I have set before you—and you call them to mind in all the nations to which the LORD your God has banished you, and when you and your children return to the LORD your God and obey His voice with all your heart and all your soul according to everything I am giving you today, then He will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you and gather you from all the nations to which the LORD your God has scattered you. Even if you have been banished to the ends of the earth, He will gather you and return you from there. And the LORD your God will bring you into the land your fathers possessed, and you will take possession of it. He will cause you to prosper and multiply more than your fathers. The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, and you will love Him with all your heart and all your soul, so that you may live.

The Old testament prophecies of the restoration of the land of Israel are rooted in the clause of Deuteronomy 30:1-5. Several examples include:

Jeremiah 29:10-14 For thus says the Lord: When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the Lord, and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you, declares the Lord, and I will bring you back to the place from which I sent you into exile.

Ezekiel 39:25-28 Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and will have compassion on the whole house of Israel, and I will be jealous for My holy name. They will forget their disgrace and all the treachery they committed against Me, when they dwell securely in their land, with no one to frighten them. When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them out of the lands of their enemies, I will show My holiness in them in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the LORD their God, when I regather them to their own land, after exiling them among the nations, not leaving any of them behind

Amos 9:14-15 I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them,” says the Lord your God.

This was found fulfilled once under the old covenant, when those from the southern kingdom and northern kingdom returned to the land after the Babylonian exile.

Ezra 1:5 Then rose up the heads of the fathers’ houses of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests and the Levites, everyone whose spirit God had stirred to go up to rebuild the house of the Lord that is in Jerusalem.

1 Chronicles 9:1-4 So all Israel was recorded in genealogies, and these are written in the Book of the Kings of Israel. And Judah was taken into exile in Babylon because of their breach of faith. Now the first to dwell again in their possessions in their cities were Israel, the priests, the Levites, and the temple servants. And some of the people of Judah, Benjamin, Ephraim, and Manasseh lived in Jerusalem: Uthai the son of Ammihud, son of Omri, son of Imri, son of Bani, from the sons of Perez the son of Judah

However, the old covenant ended and was superseded by the new covenant through the blood of Christ.


Hebrews 10:9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second

Hebrews 9:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Additionally, the old covenant was only a shadow that was meant to point to Christ, and not the true reality.

Hebrews 10:1 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities,

colossians 2:16-17 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.


The old covenant is no longer in effect, as it was superseded by the new covenant. Thus, the promises of restoration to the land are no longer a valid.

an Earthly example to help understand:
I was single and created a will in which my best friend would inherit my estate in the event of my death. However, I later married and changed that will so that my wife, and not my friend, would inherit my estate in the event of my death. The new will cancels the old will, and thus my best friend would not inherit my estate.


So is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?
“For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” 2 Corinthians 1:20 (KJV 1900)
 
  • Like
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0

throughfiierytrial

Truth-Lover
Supporter
Apr 7, 2014
2,836
794
✟516,876.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
“For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” 2 Corinthians 1:20 (KJV 1900)
When one party of a covenant does not live up to its stipulations it renders the agreement nil and void. Israel nullified the Old Covenant and God found fault with the covenant itself according to Hebrews and put a new covenant into place.

In my view it is not the earthly land which God is pointing to with Canaan, it is eternal life in heaven...we now see the promise of heaven in those words clearly.
 
Upvote 0

Sound Doctrine

Endure Sound Doctrine
Supporter
May 31, 2018
258
88
69
Eastern Time Zone US
✟163,330.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
When one party of a covenant does not live up to its stipulations it renders the agreement nil and void. Israel nullified the Old Covenant and God found fault with the covenant itself according to Hebrews and put a new covenant into place.

In my view it is not the earthly land which God is pointing to with Canaan, it is eternal life in heaven...we now see the promise of heaven in those words clearly.

The covenant God made with Abraham is unconditional. It shall be fulfilled during the tribulation. All Christians are Abraham's seed (plural). Abraham's seed (singular) is Christ. Through the singular seed, all the nations shall be blessed (plural).
 
Upvote 0

Dave L

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jun 28, 2018
15,549
5,875
USA
✟580,110.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The covenant God made with Abraham is unconditional. It shall be fulfilled during the tribulation. All Christians are Abraham's seed (plural). Abraham's seed (singular) is Christ. Through the singular seed, all the nations shall be blessed (plural).
“For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.” 2 Corinthians 1:20 (KJV 1900)
 
  • Like
Reactions: claninja
Upvote 0

Brian Mcnamee

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2017
2,308
1,294
64
usa
✟213,965.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
The promise of the restoration of the nation of Israel is found in the old covenant:

Deuteronomy 30:1-5 When all these things come upon you—the blessings and curses I have set before you—and you call them to mind in all the nations to which the LORD your God has banished you, and when you and your children return to the LORD your God and obey His voice with all your heart and all your soul according to everything I am giving you today, then He will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you and gather you from all the nations to which the LORD your God has scattered you. Even if you have been banished to the ends of the earth, He will gather you and return you from there. And the LORD your God will bring you into the land your fathers possessed, and you will take possession of it. He will cause you to prosper and multiply more than your fathers. The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, and you will love Him with all your heart and all your soul, so that you may live.

The Old testament prophecies of the restoration of the land of Israel are rooted in the clause of Deuteronomy 30:1-5. Several examples include:

Jeremiah 29:10-14 For thus says the Lord: When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the Lord, and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you, declares the Lord, and I will bring you back to the place from which I sent you into exile.

Ezekiel 39:25-28 Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and will have compassion on the whole house of Israel, and I will be jealous for My holy name. They will forget their disgrace and all the treachery they committed against Me, when they dwell securely in their land, with no one to frighten them. When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them out of the lands of their enemies, I will show My holiness in them in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the LORD their God, when I regather them to their own land, after exiling them among the nations, not leaving any of them behind

Amos 9:14-15 I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them,” says the Lord your God.

This was found fulfilled once under the old covenant, when those from the southern kingdom and northern kingdom returned to the land after the Babylonian exile.

Ezra 1:5 Then rose up the heads of the fathers’ houses of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests and the Levites, everyone whose spirit God had stirred to go up to rebuild the house of the Lord that is in Jerusalem.

1 Chronicles 9:1-4 So all Israel was recorded in genealogies, and these are written in the Book of the Kings of Israel. And Judah was taken into exile in Babylon because of their breach of faith. Now the first to dwell again in their possessions in their cities were Israel, the priests, the Levites, and the temple servants. And some of the people of Judah, Benjamin, Ephraim, and Manasseh lived in Jerusalem: Uthai the son of Ammihud, son of Omri, son of Imri, son of Bani, from the sons of Perez the son of Judah

However, the old covenant ended and was superseded by the new covenant through the blood of Christ.


Hebrews 10:9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second

Hebrews 9:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Additionally, the old covenant was only a shadow that was meant to point to Christ, and not the true reality.

Hebrews 10:1 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities,

colossians 2:16-17 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.


The old covenant is no longer in effect, as it was superseded by the new covenant. Thus, the promises of restoration to the land are no longer a valid.

an Earthly example to help understand:
I was single and created a will in which my best friend would inherit my estate in the event of my death. However, I later married and changed that will so that my wife, and not my friend, would inherit my estate in the event of my death. The new will cancels the old will, and thus my best friend would not inherit my estate.


So is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?
Hi I am glad to answer your question or dispute your exegesis. The new covenant certainly is superior to the old covenant and it certainly did replace the old one. So what we need to do is identify which covenant is being replaced. Gog made a covenant with Abraham about his seed blessing all the nations and gave him the boundaries of the promised land as an unconditional covenant. When you get to Jer 31 The LORD promises a new covenant not according to the one He made with Israel when He took them out of Egypt. So this is the covenant that is being replaced which was the conditional covenant and the one which provided the day of atonement. There are no coincidences in the Bible so God who knows the history before it has happened also predicted that Israel would reject the Messiah. Dan 9 predicts the messiah being cut off and then the city and sanctuary being destroyed. Jesus wept for Jerusalem and knew its desolation was coming. So when Jesus at the last supper announced that this cup was the cup of the new covenant being made in His blood he knew he was ushering in Jer 31 at that time and also knew that Jerusalem would be toast in a few years. So we look at the verses immediately following the promise of the new covenant with God's foreknowledge of these events we see this bold statement.
35 Thus says the LORD,
Who gives the sun for a light by day,
The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,
Who disturbs the sea,
And its waves roar
(The LORD of hosts is His name):
36 “If those ordinances depart
From before Me, says the LORD,
Then the seed of Israel shall also cease
From being a nation before Me forever.”
37 Thus says the LORD:
“If heaven above can be measured,
And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath,
I will also cast off all the seed of Israel
For all that they have done, says the LORD. Note God says they will not cease to be a nation and note for all that they have done.... When the LORD comes as described in Dan 7 and Zech 14 and the book of Revelation it is when Jerusalem is under attack and the LORD saves them. if you look at Luke 1 and see the promise by the Holy Spirit of what Jesus would do you see He delivers them from their enemies and keeps the covenants with the fathers. If you try to match the salvation of Israel at the 2nd coming with Dan 7 Zech 14 and Rev we see exactly this type of deliverance and all the promises of Israel getting the new heart are fulfilled at this time.

67 Now his father Zacharias was filled with the Holy Spirit, and prophesied, saying:
68 “Blessed is the Lord God of Israel,
For He has visited and redeemed His people,
69 And has raised up a horn of salvation for us
In the house of His servant David,
70 As He spoke by the mouth of His holy prophets,
Who have been since the world began,
71 That we should be saved from our enemies
And from the hand of all who hate us,
72 To perform the mercy promised to our fathers
And to remember His holy covenant,
73 The oath which He swore to our father Abraham:
74 To grant us that we,
Being delivered from the hand of our enemies,
Might serve Him without fear,
75 In holiness and righteousness before Him all the days of our life.
Furthermore proof is that in Jer 31 it ends with a promise of specific gates being established in jeruslaem that will never be torn down again and this is at a time when the dead bodies are everywhere so cerainly it is not new Jerusalem.
38 “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, that the city shall be built for the LORD from the Tower of Hananel to the Corner Gate. 39 The surveyor’s line shall again extend straight forward over the hill Gareb; then it shall turn toward Goath. 40 And the whole valley of the dead bodies and of the ashes, and all the fields as far as the Brook Kidron, to the corner of the Horse Gate toward the east, shall be holy to the LORD. It shall not be plucked up or thrown down anymore forever.”
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Mathetes66
Upvote 0

claninja

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2017
5,647
2,189
indiana
✟298,136.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The new covenant in Christ is offered to gentiles.

It's offered to one people: the body of Christ, which consists of both Jew and grafted in Gentiles.

Galatians 3:29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

The new covenant was made with Israel, and.....
Hebrews 8:7-8 For if that first covenant had been without fault, no place would have been sought for a second. But God found fault with the people and said: “Behold, the days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah.

......the grafted in gentiles
Romans 11:17 Now if some branches have been broken off, and you, a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others to share in the nourishment of the olive root,

The body of Christ did not "replace" Israel. The body of Christ is Israel.


The gentiles under the new covenant are not included in the land restoration to the nation of Israel - because the church, which includes gentiles, has not replaced Israel.

As Paul states, anyone, whether Jew or Greek, who is in Christ, is Abraham's seed AND HEIRS according to the promise. That mean the gentiles are just as much heirs to the promises of Abraham, through Christ, as the Jews.

Galatians 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

The new covenant replaces the old covenant as the means to be right with God. It does not cancel the promises made to the children of Israel, regarding the land of Israel.

The promises of the land and its restoration to it by the nation of Israel UNDER THE OLD COVENANT are cancelled, as the OLD COVENANT was taken away and superseded by the new covenant.

The old covenant was taken away by Christ and made obsolete. Scripture is very clear on this.

Hebrews 10:9 Then He adds, “Here I am, I have come to do Your will.” He takes away the first to establish the second.

Hebrews 8:13 By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear

The promises of a will do not remain when they are superseded by a new will. Thus the promises under the old covenant are null and void and superseded by the better promises of the new covenant.

Hebrews 8:6 But as it is, Christ has obtained a ministry that is as much more excellent than the old as the covenant he mediates is better, since it is enacted on better promises.
 
Upvote 0

Brian Mcnamee

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2017
2,308
1,294
64
usa
✟213,965.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
It is the Promises of God to the Patriarchs that are still in effect. He promised them that their descendants would occupy all that Land from the Nile to the Euphrates. The Israelites have never yet done this, as we see in Judges 1:19-36.
It will happen or God has failed in His Plan to have a people there who would be His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10 and His Light to the nations, Isaiah 49:8. NOW, it is every faithful Christian who is an Israelite by faith, by descent and by faith; Galatians 3:26-29 and we are His witnesses, John 15:27, His light to evangelize the nations, Matthew 5:14-16

Several prophesies make it clear that the Lord's holy people, now every faithful Christian, 1 Peter 2:9-10, are living in all of the holy Land before Jesus Returns; Daniel 7:23, Revelation 13:7, Zechariah 14:1-2 and in Revelation 12:6-17, it describes the Christian peoples being divided into 2 groups, one going to a place of safety, the other must remain in the Land for the 1260 days of World control by the Anti-Christ. Also described in Daniel 11:32-35
I love how you are a literalist and we disagree on who Israel is going to be I respect your method. I would ask about Hosea and the LORD noting that those who are called not his people are clearly Israel and the promise is in that place where they were called not my people they shall be called sons of the living God. The whole context is that those same people who were disowned will be the people restored. Later Hosea 3
1 Then the LORD said to me, “Go again, love a woman who is loved by a lover[fn] and is committing adultery, just like the love of the LORD for the children of Israel, who look to other gods and love the raisin cakes of the pagans.
2 So I bought her for myself for fifteen shekels of silver, and one and one-half homers of barley. 3 And I said to her, “You shall stay with me many days; you shall not play the harlot, nor shall you have a man—so, too, will I be toward you.”
4 For the children of Israel shall abide many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, without ephod or teraphim. 5 Afterward the children of Israel shall return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They shall fear the LORD and His goodness in the latter days. This again is showing national Israel being relevant in the end times. There is no replacement Israel in this text. If you look at Isaiah 61 when you get to teh day of vengeance of God we see the distinction between Jew and Gentile throughout that chapter and again it describes Israel being delivered in the day of vengeance. I think we agree that there is a spiritual Israel and in some sense the kingdom of God is now and all who are saved are in it and are Israel of God. I do not see these ideas as excluding the prophetic destiny of national Israel being brought in and a literaln kingdom coming to earth when the LORD returns.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Mathetes66
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

claninja

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2017
5,647
2,189
indiana
✟298,136.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
No; we Christians will get the Land because we are the children of the Promise. Galatians 3:26-29

Where does Christ own the land from currently? Where did Jesus goes as a forerunner on behalf of us?
Do you know what a forerunner is?
 
Upvote 0

claninja

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2017
5,647
2,189
indiana
✟298,136.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I say no, the land restoration promise to the nation Israel is not found in the NT.
The promise of gathering all the Israelites from the far nations of the world once more can be seen as fulfilled already in the OT as you have outlined. There is additional promise for Israel in these words, used again elsewhere in the OT, and that promise is speaking of a gathering of them through faith in Christ and the New Jerusalem inheritance.

I say maybe to your response. The "land" is representative of heaven...the New Jerusalem.Even in the OT, God was pointing to Canaan as a type of heaven...the promised land; the land of rest.

I would agree. The old covenant being a "shadow", and not the true reality, substantiates your argument that the land points to heaven.
 
Upvote 0

claninja

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2017
5,647
2,189
indiana
✟298,136.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The covenant God made with Abraham is unconditional.

Correct, the promises (plural) made to Abraham and his seed are UNCONDITIONAL. They are UNCONDITIONAL because they were spoken to Christ.

Galatians 3:16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed.
The Scripture does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your seed,” meaning One, who is Christ.

As the earth is the Lord's and everything it, and as Christ was made Lord, the land is His. He is the heir of ALL things

Acts 2:36 Therefore let all Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!”

1 Corinthians 10:26 for, “The earth is the Lord’s, and the fullness thereof.

Hebrews 1:2 But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.

And from where does Christ own the land? From heaven, as he sits at the right hand of the Father
 
Upvote 0

dqhall

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Jul 21, 2015
7,547
4,171
Florida
Visit site
✟766,603.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
No; we Christians will get the Land because we are the children of the Promise. Galatians 3:26-29
Jews own more land in Israel than Muslims or Christians. There have been Jewish people living in places like Tiberias and Safed (in Galilee) for centuries. The British took control of the area during WWI and allowed more Jewish immigration. After WWII more Jews set out for Israel after the Nazi holocaust was revealed. To increase Jewish settlement in Israel, they rebelled against the British who limited Jewish immigration. The Jews won a war of independence. Jews from Arab Muslim lands and all from all over the world moved to Israel. The area is mainly Jewish controlled whether you think it should belong to Christians or not. A few of these Jews are also Christians. Some Israeli Christians who were living in Israel left with hopes of finding better lands in the Christianized west. Some of the Arab Christians in Nazareth and Bethlehem left. There is now an Arab Muslim majority in each of these towns.
 
Upvote 0

claninja

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2017
5,647
2,189
indiana
✟298,136.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
The new covenant certainly is superior to the old covenant and it certainly did replace the old one. So what we need to do is identify which covenant is being replaced.

I agree. The new covenant, with all of its better promises, superseded the old covenant, and voided all of its promises.

God made a covenant with Abraham about his seed blessing all the nations and gave him the boundaries of the promised land as an unconditional covenant.

I agree.

God unconditionally promised that all the nations of the earth would be blessed through Abraham and his offspring.

Genesis 12:3 I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you; and all the families of the earth will be blessed through you

Genesis 22:18 And through your offspring all nations of the earth will be blessed, because you have obeyed My voice.”

God also unconditionally promised the land to Abraham and his offspring.

Genesis 12:7 Then the LORD appeared to Abram and said, “I will give this land to your offspring

Genesis 17:8 And to you and your offspring I will give the land of your sojourn—all the land of Canaan—as an eternal possession; and I will be their God.”

HOWEVER, Paul reveals that the unconditional promises (PLURAL) spoken to Abraham and his offspring, are to Christ, for the true meaning of the offspring is Christ.

Galatians 3:16 The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. The Scripture does not say, “and to seeds,” meaning many, but “and to your seed," meaning One, who is Christ.

Christ is the fulfillment of the Abrahamic promises, for all the promises of God are yes in Christ, and Christ is the heir of all things.

Hebrews 1:20 But in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, and through whom He made the universe.

2 Corinthians 1:20 For all the promises of God are “Yes” in Christ. And so through Him, our “Amen” is spoken to the glory of God.

Romans 15:8 Fro I tell you that Christ has become a servant of the Jews on behalf of God’s truth, to confirm the promises made to the patriarchs

Thus the unconditional promises of the Abrahamic covenant are not annulled by the conditional promises of the old covenant, because Christ is the heir of the unconditional promises.

Galatians 3:17-18 What I mean is this: The law that came 430 years later does not revoke the covenant previously established by God, so as to cancel the promise. For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God freely granted it to Abraham through a promise.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

iamlamad

Lamad
Jun 8, 2013
9,616
744
77
Home in Tulsa
✟94,263.00
Country
United States
Faith
Word of Faith
Marital Status
Married
The promise of the restoration of the nation of Israel is found in the old covenant:

Deuteronomy 30:1-5 When all these things come upon you—the blessings and curses I have set before you—and you call them to mind in all the nations to which the LORD your God has banished you, and when you and your children return to the LORD your God and obey His voice with all your heart and all your soul according to everything I am giving you today, then He will restore your fortunes and have compassion on you and gather you from all the nations to which the LORD your God has scattered you. Even if you have been banished to the ends of the earth, He will gather you and return you from there. And the LORD your God will bring you into the land your fathers possessed, and you will take possession of it. He will cause you to prosper and multiply more than your fathers. The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, and you will love Him with all your heart and all your soul, so that you may live.

The Old testament prophecies of the restoration of the land of Israel are rooted in the clause of Deuteronomy 30:1-5. Several examples include:

Jeremiah 29:10-14 For thus says the Lord: When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will visit you, and I will fulfill to you my promise and bring you back to this place. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will hear you. You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the Lord, and I will restore your fortunes and gather you from all the nations and all the places where I have driven you, declares the Lord, and I will bring you back to the place from which I sent you into exile.

Ezekiel 39:25-28 Therefore this is what the Lord GOD says: Now I will restore the fortunes of Jacob and will have compassion on the whole house of Israel, and I will be jealous for My holy name. They will forget their disgrace and all the treachery they committed against Me, when they dwell securely in their land, with no one to frighten them. When I bring them back from the peoples and gather them out of the lands of their enemies, I will show My holiness in them in the sight of many nations. Then they will know that I am the LORD their God, when I regather them to their own land, after exiling them among the nations, not leaving any of them behind

Amos 9:14-15 I will restore the fortunes of my people Israel, and they shall rebuild the ruined cities and inhabit them; they shall plant vineyards and drink their wine, and they shall make gardens and eat their fruit. I will plant them on their land, and they shall never again be uprooted out of the land that I have given them,” says the Lord your God.

This was found fulfilled once under the old covenant, when those from the southern kingdom and northern kingdom returned to the land after the Babylonian exile.

Ezra 1:5 Then rose up the heads of the fathers’ houses of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests and the Levites, everyone whose spirit God had stirred to go up to rebuild the house of the Lord that is in Jerusalem.

1 Chronicles 9:1-4 So all Israel was recorded in genealogies, and these are written in the Book of the Kings of Israel. And Judah was taken into exile in Babylon because of their breach of faith. Now the first to dwell again in their possessions in their cities were Israel, the priests, the Levites, and the temple servants. And some of the people of Judah, Benjamin, Ephraim, and Manasseh lived in Jerusalem: Uthai the son of Ammihud, son of Omri, son of Imri, son of Bani, from the sons of Perez the son of Judah

However, the old covenant ended and was superseded by the new covenant through the blood of Christ.


Hebrews 10:9 then he added, “Behold, I have come to do your will.” He does away with the first in order to establish the second

Hebrews 9:13 In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.

Additionally, the old covenant was only a shadow that was meant to point to Christ, and not the true reality.

Hebrews 10:1 For since the law has but a shadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities,

colossians 2:16-17 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath. These are a shadow of the things to come, but the substance belongs to Christ.


The old covenant is no longer in effect, as it was superseded by the new covenant. Thus, the promises of restoration to the land are no longer a valid.

an Earthly example to help understand:
I was single and created a will in which my best friend would inherit my estate in the event of my death. However, I later married and changed that will so that my wife, and not my friend, would inherit my estate in the event of my death. The new will cancels the old will, and thus my best friend would not inherit my estate.


So is the land restoration to the nation of Israel found in the new covenant?
It does not have to be. All of what is written from Genesis to Malachi has NOT been superseded!
 
Upvote 0

claninja

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2017
5,647
2,189
indiana
✟298,136.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
love how you are a literalist and we disagree on who Israel is going to be I respect your method. I would ask about Hosea and the LORD noting that those who are called not his people are clearly Israel and the promise is in that place where they were called not my people they shall be called sons of the living God. The whole context is that those same people who were disowned will be the people restored.

Jacob blessed Ephraim and prophesied that his offspring would become a multitude of goy (gentiles/nations).

Genesis 48:19 But his father refused. “I know, my son, I know!” he said. “He too shall become a people, and he too shall be great; nevertheless, his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his offspring shall become a multitude of nations.

We find this being fulfilled with Israel being divorced by God, effectively becoming no longer His people, being exiled by Assyria, and mixing with the nations.

Jeremiah 3:8 Because faithless Israel had committed adultery, I gave her a certificate of divorce and sent her away

Hosea 1:9 And the LORD said, “Name him Lo-ammi, for you are not My people, and I am not your God.

2 kings 17:23 Finally, the LORD removed Israel from His presence, as He had declared through all His servants the prophets. So Israel was exiled from their homeland into Assyria, where they are to this day

Hosea 7:8-9 Ephraim mixes with the nations; Ephraim is an unturned cake. Foreigners consume his strength, but he does not notice.

However, in hosea 1:10 and 2:23 , God promised that one day the descendants of northern kingdom (Ephraim) would be again be His people, along with Judah under "one head".

Hosea 1:10-11 Yet the number of the Israelites will be like the sand of the sea, which cannot be measured or counted. And it will happen that in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ they will be called ‘sons of the living God.’ 11Then the people of Judah and of Israel will be gathered together, and they will appoint for themselves one leader, and will go up out of the land. For great will be the day of Jezreel.

Hosea 2:23 And I will sow her as My own in the land, and I will have compassion on ‘No Compassion.’h
I will say to those called ‘Not My People,’i ‘You are My people,’ and they will say, ‘You are my God

Paul quotes hosea 1:10 and 2:23 as being fulfilled in the first century with the includion of the GENTILES with the Jews in the vessels of mercy.

Romans 9:24-26 including us, whom He has called not only from the Jews, but also from the Gentiles? As He says in Hosea: “I will call them ‘My People’ who are not My people, and I will call her ‘My Beloved’ who is not My beloved,”h and, “It will happen that in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not My people,’ they will be called‘sons of the living God.’”I

Thus by God including the gentiles, of whom some have descended from the divorced and exiled northern kingdom, with the Jews in the vessels of mercy, he fulfills his promise to unite the northern kingdom and southern kingdom under one head who is Christ.

 
  • Winner
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0

claninja

Well-Known Member
Jan 8, 2017
5,647
2,189
indiana
✟298,136.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
It does not have to be. All of what is written from Genesis to Malachi has NOT been superseded!

I never said all that written was in the OT superseded. I only stated the promises under the old covenant were superseded by the promises of the new covenant.

The promises of the nation of Israel being restored to the land, after the curses have been poured out, are found in the Old Covenant:
Deuteronomy 30:1-5 When all these things come upon you—the blessings and curses I have set before you—and you call them to mind in all the nations to which the LORD your God has banished you, and when you and your children return to the LORD your God and obey His voice with all your heart and all your soul according to everything I am giving you today, then He will restore you from captivity and have compassion on you and gather you from all the nations to which the LORD your God has scattered you. Even if you have been banished to the ends of the earth, He will gather you and return you from there.

Daniel confirms the curses were poured out.
Daniel 9:11-14 All Israel has transgressed Your law and turned away, refusing to obey Your voice; so the oath and the curse written in the Law of Moses, the servant of God, has been poured out on us because we have sinned against You. You have carried out the words spoken against us and against our rulers by bringing upon us a great disaster. For under all of heaven, nothing has ever been done like what has been done to Jerusalem. Just as it is written in the Law of Moses, all this disaster has come upon us, yet we have not sought the favor of the LORD our God by turning from our iniquities and paying attention to Your truth. Therefore the LORD has kept the calamity in store and brought it upon us. For the LORD our God is righteous in all He does; yet we have not obeyed His voice.

Jeremiah confirms the fulfillment of the promise of the restoration of the land of Israel, as found in the law, would occur after the Babylonian Exile.

Jeremiah 29:10-14 For this is what the LORD says: “When Babylon’s seventy years are complete, I will attend to you and confirm My promise to restore you to this place. For I know the plans I have for you, declares the LORD, plans to prosper you and not to harm you, to give you a future and a hope. Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with all your heart. I will be found by you, declares the LORD, and I will restore you from captivityc and gather you from all the nations and places to which I have banished you, declares the LORD. I will restore you to the place from which I sent you into exile.”

This is confirmed by the Jews returning in waves to the land UNDER the old covenant after the Babylonian exile.

Ezra 1:5 So the family heads of Judah and Benjamin, along with the priests and Levites—everyone whose spirit God had stirred—prepared to go up and rebuild the house of the LORD in Jerusalem.

Ezra 1:8 These are the family heads and genealogical records of those who returned with me from Babylon during the reign of King Artaxerxes

1 Chronicles 9:1-3 So all Israel was recorded in the genealogies written in the Book of the Kings of Israel. But Judah was exiled to Babylon because of their unfaithfulness. Now the first to resettle their own property in their cities were Israelites, priests, Levites, and temple servants.
These were some of the descendants of Judah, Benjamin, Ephraim, and Manasseh who lived in Jerusalem:

Any and all OT prophesies in regards to the nation of Israel returning the land are rooted in Deuteronomy 30:1-5, which is UNDER THE OLD COVENANT. The old covenant has been superseded by the new covenant, making the promises under the old covenant null and void.


 
Last edited:
  • Winner
Reactions: jgr
Upvote 0

grafted branch

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Feb 21, 2019
1,526
246
46
Washington
✟238,025.00
Country
United States
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
So when Jesus at the last supper announced that this cup was the cup of the new covenant being made in His blood he knew he was ushering in Jer 31 at that time and also knew that Jerusalem would be toast in a few years. So we look at the verses immediately following the promise of the new covenant with God's foreknowledge of these events we see this bold statement.
35 Thus says the LORD,
Who gives the sun for a light by day,
The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,
Who disturbs the sea,
And its waves roar
(The LORD of hosts is His name):
36 “If those ordinances depart
From before Me, says the LORD,
Then the seed of Israel shall also cease
From being a nation before Me forever.”

Hi Brian,

You used Jeremiah 31:35-36 to make the point that Israel becomes a nation before God again in the future. To me it seems these verses can be used as a proof text that Israel will not ever become a nation before God again.

Jeremiah 31:35-36 Thus saith the Lord, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The Lord of hosts is his name: if those ordinances depart from before me, saith the Lord, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.

These verses seem to indicate not that the physical sun, moon and stars will have to cease first before Israel is to cease as a nation before God but only that the ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars would have to cease.

Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be light in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years.

If the 490 years or 70 sevens in Daniel 9:24 have a parenthetical gap or they are still yet to be completed in some way, then the ordinance of the sun, moon, and stars being used to determine days and years has indeed ceased. 2 Peter 3:8 seems to indicate that the Lord no longer views the actual sun rise to sun set as 1 day. Do you think the 70 sevens are already fulfilled? Or do you have some other interpretation on this?
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

keras

Writer of studies on Bible prophecy
Feb 7, 2013
13,560
2,480
82
Thames, New Zealand
Visit site
✟290,791.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Pentecostal
Marital Status
Married
I love how you are a literalist and we disagree on who Israel is going to be I respect your method. I would ask about Hosea and the LORD noting that those who are called not his people are clearly Israel and the promise is in that place where they were called not my people they shall be called sons of the living God. The whole context is that those same people who were disowned will be the people restored. Later Hosea 3
This is your mistake; you don't see Romans 9:24-26. WE Christians, Jew and Gentile ARE the people that God will call His children.
God's secret is that in actual fact, the majority of the Christians today, the ones that heard His Voice, John 10:14-16, are descendants of Israel; the Northern ten tribes.
Jacob blessed Ephraim and prophesied that his offspring would become a multitude of goy (gentiles/nations).
Absolutely correct. And it is them who are now the majority of the Christian Israel of God
No; we Christians will get the Land because we are the children of the Promise. Galatians 3:26-29

Ezekiel 28:24-26 No longer will My people, Israel, [Galatians 6:14-16] suffer the scorn of their neighbours I will gather them from every nation, to live undisturbed in their own Land, which I gave to My servant, Jacob.
After I execute judgement on the wicked neighbours, you will then display My holiness for the world to see.


Jeremiah 32:1-15 Jeremiah is told to buy a field and seal the title deed in a jar, kept for a distant future time, when again Israel will live in the Land.

Jeremiah 32:37-41 I shall gather My people from every land from where I have banished them. It will be a joy to Me to do them good when I plant them in this Land.

Isaiah 11:12-13 The Lord will raise a banner and assemble those from Israel and Judah, dispersed among the nations. The enmity between Israel and Judah will cease.

Isaiah 65:9 I shall give descendants to Jacob and heirs to Judah, My chosen ones, who will possess My Land. Those who serve Me will live there.

Isaiah 14:1 The Lord will show compassion and will again make Israel His choice. He will resettle them in their native soil, where aliens will join them.

Ezekiel 36:8-12 But, you, mountains of Israel- put forth your fruits, for My people, Israel, for their homecoming is near. I shall settle on you many people – the whole House of Israel, they will increase and be fruitful.

Psalm 126:1-3 When the Lord restored the fortunes of Zion, we were like people renewed in health. Our mouths were full of laughter and we sang for joy. The nations said; the Lord has done great things for them. Great things, indeed, the Lord has done for us and we rejoiced.

Psalm 147:2 The Lord rebuilds Jerusalem and gathers the scattered Israelites.
Psalm 147;19-20 To Jacob He reveals His word, His statutes and decrees to Israel. He has not done this for other nations.

But now, since the Advent of Jesus, it is every faithful Christian who is the Israel of God, His holy people, the heirs of His promises.
WE will find the Title Deed, buried so long ago by Jeremiah, proof of our ownership of the holy Land.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
Status
Not open for further replies.