Parkland shooting survivor says Harvard rescinded his admission over racial slurs made 2 years ago

Trogdor the Burninator

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I'm just amused that after living in the world of social media for how many years now, some people haven't worked out that posting dumb stuff online isn't a good idea. Nor have they figured out that if you DID post dumb stuff online, maybe now is the time to go back and delete it.
 
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grasping the after wind

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I don't see anyone suggesting otherwise. Just remember, actions have consequences for all involved.


You haven't seen anyone suggesting that actions shouldn't bring consequences in other areas than this one? You must not have been paying very close attention.
 
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iluvatar5150

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I'm just amused that after living in the world of social media for how many years now, some people haven't worked out that posting dumb stuff online isn't a good idea. Nor have they figured out that if you DID post dumb stuff online, maybe now is the time to go back and delete it.

I read an article that said that he did try to delete the comments (at least from the google doc; i don't know if you can delete the text messages) back in, I think, May of 2018. But apparently Google Docs keeps a complete version history which uh... lololol
 
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trunks2k

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Nor have they figured out that if you DID post dumb stuff online, maybe now is the time to go back and delete it.
Once it's on the web, it's not going away unless you are being really careful. Outside of certain services, you can "delete" things, but there's a record somewhere.
 
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Sistrin

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What kind of ridiculous argument are Trump supporters trying to make in this thread?

I constructed my comments quite clearly, simply, and in a manner easy for anyone who knows how to read to follow. That you have chosen to disregard what I said and race down the usual tangent is not my problem.
 
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iluvatar5150

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Powerful stuff here:
The Children America Throws Away

French is right about the tenor of online discourse, which is largely about punishing and humiliating one’s enemies for the approval of one’s allies, a game no one who uses social media successfully avoids all the time. There is little room online for mercy, forgiveness, or respect. But that is largely a reflection of America’s culture of punishment, a culture whose mercilessness toward the young manifested itself in American law long before woke became an ironic term of derision in conservative circles. It is more correct to say that America’s punitive culture has only recently manifested itself in ways that affect the kinds of families who send their children to places like Harvard.

America asks a great deal of those children who are born into difficult circumstances, and punishes them brutally when they stumble. America asks very little of those born into lives of plenty or relative plenty, and offers them comfort when they fail. Yet the children America throws away are no less children than the ones it deems worthy of protection.
 
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iluvatar5150

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I constructed my comments quite clearly, simply, and in a manner easy for anyone who knows how to read to follow. That you have chosen to disregard what I said and race down the usual tangent is not my problem.

Yeah, I don't know where the confusion lies, either - I thought your post was a very clear, concise attempt to deflect blame and attention from the guilty party and stoke conspiratorial persecution fears that make "leftists" look bad.

IOW, to borrow your line, standard conservative fare.
 
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rambot

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I constructed my comments quite clearly, simply, and in a manner easy for anyone who knows how to read to follow. That you have chosen to disregard what I said and race down the usual tangent is not my problem.
I would definitely argue you created quite the strawman.
The issue is not that this boy said something inappropriate and offensive. Despite the fact that:
1) Harvard indicated that he did.
2) Harvard rescinded his application because he did.
3) He admit that he did
4) He took some measure of ownership that he did.
So there is ALL this evidence that he said that.

But I'm supposed to believe that the REAL issue is an attack by the left because and ONLY because:
1) Quotes "haven't been provided" (paraphrase)

2) "As it always is"; this is just "the left" doing what they always do. (I guess calling out racism is something that only the left does....wait.... that is actually a VERY astute point. I give you FULL credit for that. It's kinda too bad that the right never does it. Makes people think certain things). I'm sorry that you find the calling out of racism so offensive.

3) We haven't bothered to "Read into the claims".

I don't know how you interpret or meant to use the phrase "read into the claims", but one way of understanding that phrase is if you "try to create your own understanding of what was being said". The problem is that Harvard has made NO claim that Kyle hasn't admitted to. So if you read into a claim that has been admitted as fact, then any creation of understanding becomes yours and yours alone. Perhaps you don't like that someone is being held accountable by a private organization for expressing distasteful views but ultimately, there is no factual basis in your claim.
 
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CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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I agree with the general gist, but in this particular case the kid in question has made comments (as I infer) that part of his growing up and getting better was being shot at.

If you're the kind of racist who requires a true threat of death to stop being a racist I'm more on the fence about whether you deserve any more chances.
I'm guessing his family was racist. And we should be happy he's not. Because many people will always be racist. Even if they survived a shooting.
 
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Ana the Ist

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Ana the Ist

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I would definitely argue you created quite the strawman.
The issue is not that this boy said something inappropriate and offensive. Despite the fact that:
1) Harvard indicated that he did.
2) Harvard rescinded his application because he did.
3) He admit that he did
4) He took some measure of ownership that he did.
So there is ALL this evidence that he said that.

But I'm supposed to believe that the REAL issue is an attack by the left because and ONLY because:
1) Quotes "haven't been provided" (paraphrase)

2) "As it always is"; this is just "the left" doing what they always do. (I guess calling out racism is something that only the left does....wait.... that is actually a VERY astute point. I give you FULL credit for that. It's kinda too bad that the right never does it. Makes people think certain things). I'm sorry that you find the calling out of racism so offensive.

3) We haven't bothered to "Read into the claims".

I don't know how you interpret or meant to use the phrase "read into the claims", but one way of understanding that phrase is if you "try to create your own understanding of what was being said". The problem is that Harvard has made NO claim that Kyle hasn't admitted to. So if you read into a claim that has been admitted as fact, then any creation of understanding becomes yours and yours alone. Perhaps you don't like that someone is being held accountable by a private organization for expressing distasteful views but ultimately, there is no factual basis in your claim.

I get that you think it's an appropriate response from Harvard....apparently several people here do as well.

Let's say that the next time he tries to get a job....he's rejected for the same reason. Is it also an appropriate response? Why or why not?

How about if he's rejected by every college he ever applies to for this reason? Every job? Are we still in the realm of "appropriate consequences"? Or have they far exceeded the "crime" he's guilty of?

My problem here is that if we say this is ok for Harvard to do....aren't we essentially saying it's ok for every private institute to do? Why would we compel anyone to give him a chance?

I'm imagining a homeless man on the corner of the street with a sign that says "I once said something racist online. Please help." and not sure why so many here would feel good about that.
 
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Belk

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I get that you think it's an appropriate response from Harvard....apparently several people here do as well.

Let's say that the next time he tries to get a job....he's rejected for the same reason. Is it also an appropriate response? Why or why not?

How about if he's rejected by every college he ever applies to for this reason? Every job? Are we still in the realm of "appropriate consequences"? Or have they far exceeded the "crime" he's guilty of?

This seems quite the slippery slope.

My problem here is that if we say this is ok for Harvard to do....aren't we essentially saying it's ok for every private institute to do? Why would we compel anyone to give him a chance?

I'm imagining a homeless man on the corner of the street with a sign that says "I once said something racist online. Please help." and not sure why so many here would feel good about that.

By what method do you mean to compel others actions? Should we enforce forgiveness via the law?
 
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Ana the Ist

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This seems quite the slippery slope.

Indeed.

By what method do you mean to compel others actions? Should we enforce forgiveness via the law?

We enforce acceptance by the law....don't we? If I were a Christian, I might find those with Satanic beliefs....even reprehensible Satanic beliefs....completely disagreeable and I might even think that I should be able to deny such a person opportunities. If I owned a business, I might believe that I should be able to deny him a job....if I ran a college, I might believe I should be able to deny him admission.

Yet legally speaking....I cannot. It doesn't matter how awful his religious beliefs are....even if they were, for example, extremely racist Satanic beliefs. I could not legally deny him. I think most of us would agree that generally speaking, that's a good thing. It keeps people from discriminating against people for simply disagreeing with their religious beliefs. As you said, it quickly becomes a slippery slope.

So what's the fundamental difference here?? His beliefs weren't imbued in him by a religious institution? Does that somehow make them more reprehensible?

I honestly can't say I think this was a morally good thing....nor can I definitely say it was morally bad. All I know for certain is it seems excessive.
 
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Ana the Ist

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This seems quite the slippery slope.



By what method do you mean to compel others actions? Should we enforce forgiveness via the law?

I suppose I would argue that the principle is the same. Our nation decided that discrimination against religious beliefs was wrong back in a time when such beliefs were more visible than today....that a business or private institution has an obligation to serve everyone regardless of belief.

Nowadays, social media has made all kinds of beliefs highly visible...and while we might find them disagreeable or even completely reprehensible...there is an ethical obligation to serve all equally regardless of belief. I simply don't see beliefs originating within religion as different in any manner.
 
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Ana the Ist

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By what method do you mean to compel others actions?

To answer this, I'd say we compel it the same way we compel all other kinds of non-discrimination. If he is discriminated against for such reasons, he can seek justice.

Should we enforce forgiveness via the law?

Forgiveness for what? He didn't do anything to Harvard. I'm not saying that he should be forgiven by those he offended with his words/beliefs.

They can chastise him all they like. I'm saying that a business or institution shouldn't discriminate against him.
 
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Belk

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Indeed.



We enforce acceptance by the law....don't we?

No, we do not. We force equal treatment by the law.

If I were a Christian, I might find those with Satanic beliefs....even reprehensible Satanic beliefs....completely disagreeable and I might even think that I should be able to deny such a person opportunities. If I owned a business, I might believe that I should be able to deny him a job....if I ran a college, I might believe I should be able to deny him admission.

Yet legally speaking....I cannot. It doesn't matter how awful his religious beliefs are....even if they were, for example, extremely racist Satanic beliefs. I could not legally deny him.

It is not quite so cut and dried but I take your meaning and understand your example.

I think most of us would agree that generally speaking, that's a good thing. It keeps people from discriminating against people for simply disagreeing with their religious beliefs. As you said, it quickly becomes a slippery slope.

So what's the fundamental difference here?? His beliefs weren't imbued in him by a religious institution? Does that somehow make them more reprehensible?

Less reprehensible, to my way of thinking.

I honestly can't say I think this was a morally good thing....nor can I definitely say it was morally bad. All I know for certain is it seems excessive.

I do not necessarily disagree. I find this case troubling. However I see that there must be a balance. The question, to my mind, is where do we draw the line?
 
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Belk

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To answer this, I'd say we compel it the same way we compel all other kinds of non-discrimination. If he is discriminated against for such reasons, he can seek justice.



Forgiveness for what? He didn't do anything to Harvard. I'm not saying that he should be forgiven by those he offended with his words/beliefs.

They can chastise him all they like. I'm saying that a business or institution shouldn't discriminate against him.

So are all forms of discrimination to be off limits?
 
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Belk

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I suppose I would argue that the principle is the same. Our nation decided that discrimination against religious beliefs was wrong back in a time when such beliefs were more visible than today....that a business or private institution has an obligation to serve everyone regardless of belief.

Nowadays, social media has made all kinds of beliefs highly visible...and while we might find them disagreeable or even completely reprehensible...there is an ethical obligation to serve all equally regardless of belief. I simply don't see beliefs originating within religion as different in any manner.


But we did not decide that. We only protect certain forms of beliefs.
 
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