Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

CharismaticLady said:

So you are going to continue to take Romans 7:14-23 out of context? Romans 2 shows a Gentile with a conscience, and does what his conscience tells him to do, and he is a law unto himself. Even by adding verse 13 shows that the whole problem is sin.

13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

Sin is what Jesus came to extinguish in the flesh. He took away our sin so that we could have the Spirit to fulfill the righteous requirement of the law, without the law of sin and death. Romans 7 is about being under the law of sin and death, and having no power, but to struggle

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies d]">[d]through His Spirit who dwells in you.

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Oscarr said:

John was countering the Gnostic heresy which taught that the spiritual side of a believer was most important and the physical was nothing - that as long as a believer had faith in Christ and was born again in his spirit, what happened in his physical body meant nothing; so he could go on living just as he pleased. This meant that a Gnostic just carried on sinning and depended on his spiritual side to be justified. So, it is important that we view John's writing in its true context.

The truth is that we are justified by faith in Christ alone, but our sanctification depends on obeying the commands of Christ in the gospels and in the Holy Spirit writing in the Epistles. Our new heart's desire is to be totally holy before the Lord, but we can't achieve that without the help of the Holy Spirit, so we resist temptation with His help so that we continually work on improving our sanctification each day.

If a person thinks that they can have faith in Christ and just continue in their previous sins and do just what they please, they are deceived. It is just that I oppose the Arminian doctrine of total sanctification by faith, involving sinless perfection.

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Grip Docility said:

I'll be sincere, from my perspective...

It wasn't until I surrendered that I began to grown in Christ. I genuinely rest. When I "worked" for holiness... It always seemed to be further and further away.

When I surrendered and began to "be still"... entirely new life came to me.

When I was still and prayed... He listened.

All of my genuine efforts have "made Ishmael". The times I threw my hands up and said... I give up Lord... everything miraculously fell into place!

I gave up on Ishmael, and waited for Isaac.

Do I still fail? YOU BET YA! Is He working on my soul every day? I would be a liar if I said He wasn't.

That's my 2 cents.

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mdamon0501 said:

Amen!

I have had the exact same experience. There is no conviction that I could build up in my heart that was powerful enough to get away from sinning. Prayer on the other hand, and trust in God as the only thing which can save me from my flesh has been the most wonderful thing. Never in the past did I have such conviction as when I surrendered my role, and said "Help me Jesus."

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bcbsr said:

Actually the theme of 1John is about how to identify those born of God and distinguish them from the children of the devil. Yes, he spoke to issues of Gnosticism. But I don't think you understand what he said.

He's not saying that you have to behave in such and such a way in order to be saved, which is salvation by works. Rather he's say that those who have been born of God do behave in such and such a way. Which is just what the verses I pointed out said. And there are a plethora of such verses throughout 1John.

You seem to be misconstruing what John is saying, crossing the line in to salvation by works.

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mdamon0501 said:

I cant stress that enough to my friends.

You don't know how to pray? Ask Jesus to teach you.

You can't understand a passage in scripture? Ask Jesus to teach you.

You can't escape something which is crushing your spirit? Ask Jesus to heal you.

Your soul is rent in half by the woes of life? Ask Jesus for help.

Ask Jesus.

Its that simple.

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mdamon0501 said:

Amen!

I have had the exact same experience. There is no conviction that I could build up in my heart that was powerful enough to get away from sinning. Prayer on the other hand, and trust in God as the only thing which can save me from my flesh has been the most wonderful thing. Never in the past did I have such conviction as when I surrendered my role, and said "Help me Jesus."

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imMD said:

MeToo.

It's the difference between wishing, from the outside, that the Abundant Live is real, and being grateful for that life already given. We just have to be trained in living it.

Yes, the true path to holiness is to allow Jesus to implement it in my life, which just happens to be exactly what He wants to do!

much love!
mark

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CharismaticLady said:

So you don't believe one that starts out following Christ can sin again and lose their salvation? If they sin again, does it just mean they weren't saved in the first place? So, how can one be assured of their salvation?

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fhansen said:

Very good point. The truth is that no one has 100% certainty of salvation, of whether or not their names are written in the Book of Life.

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Grip Docility said:

Say what?

John 3:16 ... revision 2 ?

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fhansen said:

There's a walk that goes with the talk. Scripture affirms that not all who think and say they're Christians will be saved. And we'd also have to ignore the multitude of passages that warn and admonish believers about failing to come through in one way or another, or of turning back away from God and returning to sin. No one can predict who will persevere and who will not.

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Grip Docility said:

Faith in the Lion of Judah... The Lion of Judah fights for us... Exodus 14:14

Why do people over complicate the simplicity?

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fhansen said:

I don't know. But maybe that's what you're doing. Scripture is pretty straightforward on this matter anyway

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CharismaticLady said:

I believe we can have assurance according to 1 John 3:18-23. The test is, ask yourself if your prayers are answered, because that will reveal whether you have a personal relationship with God and abide in Him.

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