Star of David - your comments

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Yeshua is our JEWISH Messiah...gentiles are grafted in. Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Romans 11

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Sounds good to me............

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Yeshua is our JEWISH Messiah...gentiles are grafted in. Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Romans 11

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You don't understand Romans 11:13-24, where Paul uses the allegory of a tree. He says the natural branches are lopped off and only those who have faith in Jesus can be grafted into that tree.

This is Bible ABC; the opportunity for Salvation is NOW and many prophesies tell of the virtual demise of Judah for their continuing rejection of Jesus. Isaiah 4:3-4, Isaiah 6:11-13, Isaiah 22:11b-14, Romans 9:27, +

keras said:

You don't understand Romans 11:13-24, where Paul uses the allegory of a tree. He says the natural branches are lopped off and only those who have faith in Jesus can be grafted into that tree.

This is Bible ABC; the opportunity for Salvation is NOW and many prophesies tell of the virtual demise of Judah for their continuing rejection of Jesus. Isaiah 4:3-4, Isaiah 6:11-13, Isaiah 22:11b-14, Romans 9:27, +

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Oh I understand it alright. He was speaking to gentiles. The natural branches are Jews. He also told the gentiles that some Jews have been broken off so gentiles could be grafted in...and for gentiles NOT to boast.

keras said:

You don't understand Romans 11:13-24, where Paul uses the allegory of a tree. He says the natural branches are lopped off and only those who have faith in Jesus can be grafted into that tree.

This is Bible ABC; the opportunity for Salvation is NOW and many prophesies tell of the virtual demise of Judah for their continuing rejection of Jesus. Isaiah 4:3-4, Isaiah 6:11-13, Isaiah 22:11b-14, Romans 9:27, +

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And that rejection led to the wrath upon them in the 1st century..........

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html
"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM

POV: Administrative | Factional | Military | Theological


David Roberts' "Siege of Jerusalem" / Legion Six Victorious | Summary of Josephus


Rom 3:22
and the righteousness of God is through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference,

Gal 2:16
having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh.'

According to Revelation 14, the Saints in the 1st century were to hold on to their endurance and Faith of Jesus, it says so right here:

Rev 14:12
Here is the patience/endurance<5281> of the Saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus/

Revelation 13:10
If any to-captivity into captivity is going away.
If any in sword to be killed, is binding him in sword to be killed.
Here is the patience/endurance<5281> and the faith of the Saints
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Captivity and sword Luke 21:24 Revelation 13:10

Jeremiah 15:2
“And it shall be, if they say to you, ‘Where should we go?' then you shall tell them, ‘Thus says the LORD:
“Such as are for death, to death;
And such as are for the sword, to the sword;
And such as are for the famine, to the famine;
And such as are for the captivity, to the captivity.” '

.Luke 21:24
And they shall be falling to mouth of sword and they shall be being led captive into all the nations.
And Jerusalem shall be being trodden by nations until which may be being filled times of nations.
[Deuteronomy 28:68/Reve 11:2/13:10]
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The Destruction of Jerusalem - George Peter Holford, 1805AD
The Destruction of Jerusalem

The day on which Titus encompassed Jerusalem, was the feast of the Passover................

Of the Jews destroyed during the siege, Josephus reckons not less than ONE MILLION AND ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND, .................Of the captives the whole was about NINETY-SEVEN THOUSAND.

........the tallest and most beautiful youths, together with several of the Jewish nobles were reserved by Titus to grace his triumphal entry into Rome.
After this selection, all above the age of seventeen were sent in chains into Egypt, to be employed there as slaves,
or distributed throughout the empire to be sacrificed as gladiators in the amphitheatres ;
whilst those who were under this age, were exposed to sale.[Deuteronomy 28:68]

Douggg said:

There have been three kings over united Israel. Saul and David, anointed by Samuel the prophet. Solomon, by Nathan the prophet.

(The Antichrist will be anointed by the false prophet.)

At the time of Jesus, the land of Israel was divided up into three regions. Galilee, Samaria, Judea. With Judea being the most prominent, and where Jerusalem was located.

The messiah was expected to reunite all of Israel into one nation again, and be the one king over Israel. The reuniting of Israel, the stick of Juda with the stick of Joseph, is actually an end times prophecy in Ezekiel 37. No longer split into the two kingdoms which followed Solomon's reign. It happened in 1948.

Ezekiel 37: 22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

The event that took place which the crowd wanted make Jesus king, it was in Galilee, way up north in the land of Israel. But it wasn't time. So Jesus departed into the wilderness.

The prophecies regarding Jesus as King were to take place in Jerusalem.

Zechariah 9:9 Rejoice greatly, O daughter of Zion; shout, O daughter of Jerusalem: behold, thy King cometh unto thee: he is just, and having salvation; lowly, and riding upon an ass, and upon a colt the foal of an ass.

At the right time, Jesus was hailed as the King of Israel, riding into Jerusalem on the donkey.

John 12:12 On the next day much people that were come to the feast, when they heard that Jesus was coming to Jerusalem,

13 Took branches of palm trees, and went forth to meet him, and cried, Hosanna: Blessed is the King of Israel that cometh in the name of the Lord.

14 And Jesus, when he had found a young ass, sat thereon; as it is written,

15 Fear not, daughter of Sion: behold, thy King cometh, sitting on an ass's colt.
________________________________________________________________

Even following the resurrection of Jesus, and the last time the disciples saw of Jesus earth, they were wondering if the time had come for him to become King of Israel, restoring the kingdom.

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.

____________________________________________________________

The Antichrist role is someone who the Jews will mistakenly believe is their messiah, and the person will be anointed the King of Israel (although not approved by God to be their king). It only lasts until he betrays them, and claims to have achieved God-hood.

The next and final role of the person is with him as being the beast in Revelation. The King of the Roman Empire of the end times.

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Douggg said:

The messiah was expected to reunite all of Israel into one nation again, and be the one king over Israel. The reuniting of Israel, the stick of Juda with the stick of Joseph, is actually an end times prophecy in Ezekiel 37. No longer split into the two kingdoms which followed Solomon's reign. It happened in 1948.

I am not convinced that is actually true ...that was the Jews expectation but Jesus said something different ...better but different . Think not that I came to bring peace but a sword ...Jesus came to bring division ...dividing the light from the dark ...the lie from the truth .

"Father , I pray they all be one as you and I are one " - Jesus .

What happened in 1948 ? Theodor Herzl was an atheist ...How is Israel ( he who wrestles with God ) composed of atheist ? It contradicts common sense . No ...you are talking about secular Israel which was recognized and befriended first by the other secular nation , The United States in 1948 .





Ezekiel 37: 22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all:

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I don't know brother . It seems that the new covenant fulfilled and expanded the old covenant ....a better covenant which fulfilled God's promise to Abraham and the messianic pronouncements in Isaiah .... a light to the gentiles . Of course Paul said there is no longer any racial distinctions ..neither jew nor greek . He further said ...."I no longer know any man after the flesh ." Paul was pretty adamant regarding separating into Jew and non Jew . So much so that he called out Peter for dissembling when the Judiazers came up from Jerusalem and questioned Peter for fellow-shipping with gentiles .
And it was also told us in Romans 16-17 ..mark those who cause divisions and offenses contrary to the teaching you have learned and avoid them ...

There is no longer two nations . Those who know and love God and those who do not .

Micah 3 :10 Says They build up Zion with blood and Jerusalem with iniquity .

God fulfilled his old covenant promise to Israel but Israel rebelled and fell away so that the gentiles could be grafted into the vine . Why does Paul say we wait for a Jerusalem which is above ?

Who started this business that secular Israel is the same as Abraham's seed ? Jesus certainly did not...nor John the Baptist ...surely you will say to me ..we have Abraham as our father ..I tell you , God is able to raise up children of Abraham from these rocks .

Many people say we should side with secular Israel because of the biblical promises regarding blessing and curses . That was to Abraham ...and in Abraham and his seed ( Jesus ).

Yeshua HaDerekh said:

Oh I understand it alright. He was speaking to gentiles. The natural branches are Jews. He also told the gentiles that some Jews have been broken off so gentiles could be grafted in...and for gentiles NOT to boast.

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But it is clear, is to not; that the only people who are attached to that Tree, are faithful Christians.
This cuts out every person who rejects Jesus, they are the 'chaff' that Jesus will winnow out and burn. Matthew 3:7-12, Luke 19:27

LittleLambofJesus said:

And that rejection led to the wrath upon them in the 1st century..........

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Exactly as prophesied.
Ezekiel 21:14 says that the great Sword of slaughter will strike Judah 3 times.
1/ Babylon
2/ Rome
3/ Still to come, this time by the Lord Himself. Ezekiel 15:6-8, Jeremiah 21:11-14, Zephaniah 1:14-18

parousia70 said:

If they are not physically Jewish are they still physical Israel?

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No.

keras said:

But it is clear, is to not; that the only people who are attached to that Tree, are faithful Christians.
This cuts out every person who rejects Jesus, they are the 'chaff' that Jesus will winnow out and burn

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Romans 11:24 suggests a preference for genetic Hebrews, who are the 'natural' branches. The rest of the world constitutes the 'wild' branches, which is speaking about genetics. Gentiles are genetically the wild olive tree. When one believes they get grafted in and become Spiritual Israel. But this verse is still denoting the physicality of race.

friend of said:

Romans 11:24 suggests a preference for genetic Hebrews, who are the 'natural' branches. The rest of the world constitutes the 'wild' branches, which is speaking about genetics. Gentiles are genetically the wild olive tree. When one believes they get grafted in and become Spiritual Israel. But this verse is still denoting the physicality of race.

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You are right and God does know who the physical Israelites are, Amos 9:9, but mostly they don't.
Although it is easy enough to sort it out; those who have accepted the Gospel. mainly the Western, Caucasian peoples are Israelite by descent and now also by belief and faith.
Jesus was sent to save the House of Israel and He achieved that objective; we Christians are the proof of it. The House of Judah, has an entirely different future. Only those Jews who have become Christian now, will be saved. Isaiah 29:1-4, Romans 9:27

Douggg said:

The Jews, Israel, turn to Jesus embracing the new covenant to be right with God, in the middle of the 7 years of Daniel 9:27, forthcoming.

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This belief is a tenet of the 'rapture to heaven' belief.
Where they must have the Jews on earth, while they sit in heaven, doing what; they don't know.
This whole idea is a fairy tale and is totally unbiblical.

Jesus said: for His followers to proclaim the Gospel until He Returns, Matthew 28:19-20, and He will be with us, spiritually until then.
The Jews have many prophesies about their fate and none say they will ever 'get right with God'.

keras said:

The House of Judah, has an entirely different future. Only those Jews who have become Christian now, will be saved.

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I agree with Douggg's interpretation that one day in the future, maybe soon maybe later, many that hail from the house of Judah will come to faith in Christ.

It just doesn't make sense to me that God would select a chosen people, carry them throughout history as documented in the OT, only to cast them off and reject them. In His omniscience, why wouldn't He have selected a race that would come to return His love? I can only conclude that one day, in the future, Judah will undergo a widespread conversion to Christ and acknowledge Him as Israel's savior.

friend of said:

I agree with Douggg's interpretation that one day in the future, maybe soon maybe later, many that hail from the house of Judah will come to faith in Christ.

It just doesn't make sense to me that God would select a chosen people, carry them throughout history as documented in the OT, only to cast them off and reject them. In His omniscience, why wouldn't He have selected a race that would come to return His love? I can only conclude that one day, in the future, Judah will undergo a widespread conversion to Christ and acknowledge Him as Israel's savior.

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But He DOES have that people! He watches over them, still in dispersion; Amos 9:9
They, WE Christians, are the Israelites of God, whether by faith or by descent; most often by both.

Thinking the Jews will be saved and redeemed, conflicts with all the prophesies. Only a remnant will be saved and they will join with their brethren. Romans 9:27

keras said:

Your post #97 is correct, excepting for this statement.

Jesus is our Christian Lord, the Jews have rejected Him and they face a judgment/punishment that will leave only a remnant; the few thousand Messianic Jews, who will join with their Christian brethren. Romans 9:27, Jeremiah 50:4-5

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Keras, you're on the right track but I think you're too focused on the definition of the word remnant instead of taking into consideration what the bible actually says about the size of the remnant.

For starters, the 144,000 Jews alone is much more than a few thousand Jews. (Yes, they are Jews from Jewish tribes descendants of Jacob. Not gentiles tribes of Smith and Jones we all like to promote).


A remnant in the dictionary also means a smaller percentage, not necessarily a small group. One third will be saved. One third the entire population of Jews on earth is not a very small remnant.


And the reason why Israel will need to expand it's borders again immediately after the tribulation from the Nile to the Euphrates is because of the multitude of Jews returning home to Israel after the tribulation. The land is too small to hold the returning remnant.

Another things is prior to the first coming, not all the Jews were gathered back into Israel. The descendants from the 10 tribes - a much larger group of Jews - never had a chance to witness Jesus as did the descendants from the kingdom of Judah: Judah, Benjamin and Levi. The descendants from the kingdom of Israel never heard Jesus proclaim the gospel nor rejected Him. This is a very very large group of Jews that will accept Jesus during the tribulation because this time when Jesus return, He will finally fulfill all their expected prophecies of the Messiah being the great leader and defender of Israel and will believe.

During the second coming, after the next gathering near the beginning of the tribulation, all the Jews from all tribes together will be as one house to hear Jesus proclaim the gospel throughout Israel and all over the world. This is a much much larger group of Jews that will occupy Israel in the very near future.

Douggg said:

The Jews, Israel, turn to Jesus embracing the new covenant to be right with God, in the middle of the 7 years of Daniel 9:27, forthcoming.

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I actually agree with you on something here. The Jews will embrace Jesus as their Messiah by the midpoint. However I don't see how you came to this conclusion if you believe the Jews will anoint the antichrist as their Messiah. How will the Jews realize Jesus is their Messiah if they've make the a/c their king?

keras said:

Thinking the Jews will be saved and redeemed, conflicts with all the prophesies. Only a remnant will be saved and they will join with their brethren. Romans 9:27

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I'm not even saying that they will be saved by virtue of their race, I'm just saying that the final cutoff hasn't occurred yet, He's still dealing with that tribe.

Edit: I'm not being very articulate atm.

friend of said:

No.

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Scripture for that?

friend of said:

It just doesn't make sense to me that God would select a chosen people, carry them throughout history as documented in the OT, only to cast them off and reject them.

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He's Never Rejected them!

In Elijah's era, the multitude of Israelites who worshiped the false god Baal was so great that faithful Israel narrowed to a mere seven thousand men (1 Kings 19:1-18; Rom 11:2-4) and the rest were excommunicated out of the Covenant forever. That faithful remnant at that time constituted ALL Israel, and from that time forward ONLY the descendants of those 7000 were Gods Covenanted Israel. The rest, again, were cut off forever.

That's how God preserves His remnant in times of Great Apostasy.

Scripture records numerous apostasies by--and subsequent excommunications of--seditious sons of Abraham, while a faithful remnant remained ... and through the remnant and the remnant alone, "All Israel" Carried on...

Examples may be multiplied: God struck down thousands of rebellious Israelites in the wilderness (Num 14:26-45; Num 21:5-9; Num 16:1-50), though the church was preserved and led to the Promised Land (Acts 7:38-45); In Isaiah's day, apostasy became so rampant that "All Israel" continued to exist through a small but faithful remnant (Isa 10:22-23; Isa 1:7-9; Rom 9:27-29); And again as mentioned above, in Elijah's era, the multitude of Israelites who worshiped the false god Baal was so great that "All Israel" narrowed to a mere seven thousand men (1 Kings 19:1-18; Rom 11:2-4). Lastly, at the close of the Old Testamental age, Israel was again reduced to a small remnant of faithful elect ones (Rom 11:5). The Jewish Pharisees and temple rulers grew wicked to the point of killing God's holy Messiah and apostles (1 Thess 2:14-16), and throngs wanted Caesar as king instead of Messiah, the son of David (Jn 19:15). Then, as in times past, "All Israel" survived and continued on EXCLUSIVELY through the faithful sons, the Nazarene Sect (The REMNANT), while the unfaithful apostates were "cut off" from among the people FOREVER.

Just as the jewish church abode with Moses in the wilderness (Acts 7:37-38), so Jesus had HIS jewish church (Mt. 16:18-19).

St. Paul said that when the nation was in mass apostasy, the TRUE NATIONAL Israel was carried on not through the lineages of the wicked sons but rather through the OBEDIENT FEW (called the "remnant"), such as was true in Isaiah's day (Romans 9:27-29) and Elijah's day (Romans 11:3-5).

St. Peter says the same thing at Acts 3:22-24, where it is clear that the wicked jews who refuse Christ were to be "cut off from among the People of Israel" while the faithful jews (John the Baptist, Joseph and Mary, the Twelve, the Seventy, the three thousand on Pentecost day, and many thousands of other jews) were the True Faithful Israel.

And within a few years after Pentecost, the faithful Israel learned how to start accepting both jewish and also gentile followers from all over the empire to convert into their Nation (1 Peter 2:9-10; Mt 21:40-45). And so the tiny remnant True Israel grew into a worldwide Judaism living under the promised NEW covenant of Israel's Messiah.

And so it was also in Moses' day, when the countless thousands of wicked sons of Abraham were slain in the wilderness while the faithful sons of Abraham survived and got to enter the Promised Land. We must NEVER count the continuation of Israel through the wicked sons but rather always through the faithful remnant!

Israel survived *exclusively* in the sect of the Nazarenes. They received with joy their promised New Covenant and obediently rejected all former biases against the non-Abrahamic families of earth so that Genesis 12:3 might finally be attained (Gal 3:7-9/Rom 4:13-18)---via the work of the Jewish Messiah. This sole surviving form of covenant Judaism is known worldwide as Christianity, the Jewish church gone global.

The church always was the covenanted Israel, the church continues to be the covenanted Israel. The only difference is that the NEW covenant of Israel enabled Jewish fullness to be bestowed upon gentile people groups (Gen 12:3).

The REAL "replacement theology" is the one who seeks to REPLACE the Faithful Sons of Abraham with the Wicked ones as the true Heirs.

Such is, sadly, RAMPANT here on CF.

Seville90210 said:

For starters, the 144,000 Jews alone is much more than a few thousand Jews. (Yes, they are Jews from Jewish tribes descendants of Jacob. Not gentiles tribes of Smith and Jones we all like to promote).

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This is where you display a severe lack of understanding, in that there are TWO Houses; Israel and Judah.
Israel was the kingdom that separated from Judah in King Rehoboam's time. They were exiled and have never yet rejoined.
So 12,000 X 2 will come from the tribes of Judah and Benjamin. The remaining 120,000 of Revelation 7:3-8, will come out of the ten Northern tribes of the House of Israel. Who are now, mainly; the Christian; Western, nations of the world.
All selected by Jesus, Revelation 14:1, out of the vast multitude of faithful Christians, in Jerusalem, soon after the Sixth Seal event has cleared and cleansed the entire Middle East. Revelation 7:9, Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10

parousia70 said:

The REAL "replacement theology" is the one who seeks to REPLACE the Faithful Sons of Abraham with the Wicked ones as the true Heirs.

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I agree with your post #119.
It amazes me to see how some people almost worship the Jews, being sadly deceived into thinking that they are still the chosen people of God.
They do this because their false teachers have conned them into believing they will be whisked to heaven, while the Jewish people must be punished, to correct them before Jesus Returns as their true Messiah. Neither idea is Biblical and neither will happen.
Only faithful Christians will occupy all of the holy Land. WE will shout: Blessed is He who comes in the Name of the Lord.