A Question About Ressurection Versus Instant Glorification

Lazarus Short

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2016
2,934
3,009
74
Independence, Missouri, USA
✟294,142.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Marital Status
Married
This has been nagging at me for some time, and it really did not gel in my mind until I was halfway through the thread title.

My sister-in-law died this morning. That made me think of every comment you commonly hear at funerals and the like:

They're in a better place...or with the Lord...or walking those streets of gold...or singing in the choir invisible...in the bosom of Abraham...or in short, poof, already in Heaven.

OTOH, we are told in the Bible to look forward to the Resurrection. Now, if we've already been in the Kingdom for some time, that sounds a bit creepy to me. How about you?

Are these two ideas even compatible? I'd like to see what others have to say on the subject. I apologize from the start if "Instant Glorification" is not the proper term.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tayla

Presbyterian Continuist

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Mar 28, 2005
21,810
10,792
76
Christchurch New Zealand
Visit site
✟827,033.00
Country
New Zealand
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
This has been nagging at me for some time, and it really did not gel in my mind until I was halfway through the thread title.

My sister-in-law died this morning. That made me think of every comment you commonly hear at funerals and the like:

They're in a better place...or with the Lord...or walking those streets of gold...or singing in the choir invisible...in the bosom of Abraham...or in short, poof, already in Heaven.

OTOH, we are told in the Bible to look forward to the Resurrection. Now, if we've already been in the Kingdom for some time, that sounds a bit creepy to me. How about you?

Are these two ideas even compatible? I'd like to see what others have to say on the subject. I apologize from the start if "Instant Glorification" is not the proper term.
When people die in the Lord, they go to Paradise. This is a place where the souls of the dead are in a pleasant place awaiting the second coming of Christ when they will be resurrected from the dead. We are in the kingdom already but it is a case of "now" but "not yet". We are in the kingdom positionally, and will be in it actually when Jesus comes again and we are glorified.

There are two places in Hades - Paradise, and the place where unconverted sinners go when they die. The Bible calls it hell, but it is sheol, but not gehenna (the lake of fire) which does not exist yet. In sheol, the unconverted are bound in chains awaiting the judgment. There is an impassable gulf between the two sections of Hades. We see this in Jesus account of the rich man and Lazarus (Luke 16:19-31).

When Jesus comes again, the dead who are in Paradise will rise first to be with the Lord and those who are still alive will rise into the air in the Rapture, and they all will be with the Lord when He comes to reign on earth for 1000 years. After that, the unconverted dead will be resurrected to face the White Throne judgment. The converted believers will not have to face that judgment because they have already judged themselves as sinners and have put their trust in Christ. They will be rewarded, not judged.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: Lazarus Short
Upvote 0

Servant of Yeshua

Active Member
Jan 17, 2019
123
70
Northern Hemisphere
✟14,613.00
Country
United States
Faith
Baptist
Marital Status
Married
So we have 2 things to really think about. The thought that at the rapture the dead in Christ will rise first. ( the 2 links in blue are from www.gotquestions.org)
Is the last trumpet of 1 Thessalonians 4 the same as the seventh trumpet of Revelation?
And that Jesus said to the thief, "Today you will be with me (Jesus) in paradise."
What did Jesus mean when He said, “Today you will be with me in paradise”?

But when it comes down to it, they both must be true. God is good, ALL the time. So it will be what it will be and we will both be true perhaps in a way that we cannot comprehend at this time.
One day we will understand all of those things which are a mystery to us at this time while we are limited.
 
Upvote 0

RaymondG

Well-Known Member
Nov 15, 2016
8,545
3,816
USA
✟268,974.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
I believe once we leave our bodies, there is no more concept of time or waiting, as we think of it now. What will happen, happens......but even if there were a sleep.....to the one sleeping, no time has passed....you close your eyes one moment and seem to open them again the very next moment.....just as when we sleep at night.

Waiting and even death is a human concept....only real to us.... Once finding the truth and being set free...both concepts are washed away and we pass from death to life....
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,698
5,613
Utah
✟713,373.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
This has been nagging at me for some time, and it really did not gel in my mind until I was halfway through the thread title.

My sister-in-law died this morning. That made me think of every comment you commonly hear at funerals and the like:

They're in a better place...or with the Lord...or walking those streets of gold...or singing in the choir invisible...in the bosom of Abraham...or in short, poof, already in Heaven.

OTOH, we are told in the Bible to look forward to the Resurrection. Now, if we've already been in the Kingdom for some time, that sounds a bit creepy to me. How about you?

Are these two ideas even compatible? I'd like to see what others have to say on the subject. I apologize from the start if "Instant Glorification" is not the proper term.

Paul sums it up here:

The Return of the Lord

1 Thessalonians 4

13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death, so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise.17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

All are asleep in the grave (dormant/unconscious state) until the return of the Lord. Then we are changed and received our glorified bodies.

1 Corinthians 15:52

51Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52in an instant, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed.

Info on justification, sanctification, glorification here:

Is Final Salvation Free or Contingent upon Obeying Commandments?

Sorry for your loss, may the Lord be with family and friends. God Bless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lazarus Short
Upvote 0

1213

Disciple of Jesus
Jul 14, 2011
3,661
1,117
Visit site
✟146,199.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
....My sister-in-law died this morning. That made me think of every comment you commonly hear at funerals and the like:

They're in a better place...or with the Lord...or walking those streets of gold...or singing in the choir invisible...in the bosom of Abraham...or in short, poof, already in Heaven...

I think the better place is compatible with this:

Jesus said to him, "Assuredly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
Luke 23:43
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,698
5,613
Utah
✟713,373.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I think the better place is compatible with this:

Jesus said to him, "Assuredly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise."
Luke 23:43

Some people take this verse to mean .... that the thief on the cross went to heaven that day (along with Jesus) ... this simply is not true and we know this because in acts Jesus himself did not ascend to heaven until 40 days later.

Acts 1

1In my first book, O Theophilus, I wrote about all that Jesus began to do and to teach, 2until the day He was taken up to heaven, after giving instructions through the Holy Spirit to the apostles He had chosen. 3After His suffering, He presented Himself to them with many convincing proofs that He was alive. He appeared to them over a span of forty days and spoke about the kingdom of God.

4And while they were gathered together, He commanded them: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift the Father promised, which you have heard Me discuss. 5For John baptized with water, but in a few days you will be baptized withb the Holy Spirit.”

The Ascension
Mark 16:19-20; Luke 24:50-53
 
Upvote 0

Butch5

Newbie
Supporter
Apr 7, 2012
8,932
767
62
Homer Georgia
Visit site
✟308,497.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
This has been nagging at me for some time, and it really did not gel in my mind until I was halfway through the thread title.

My sister-in-law died this morning. That made me think of every comment you commonly hear at funerals and the like:

They're in a better place...or with the Lord...or walking those streets of gold...or singing in the choir invisible...in the bosom of Abraham...or in short, poof, already in Heaven.

OTOH, we are told in the Bible to look forward to the Resurrection. Now, if we've already been in the Kingdom for some time, that sounds a bit creepy to me. How about you?

Are these two ideas even compatible? I'd like to see what others have to say on the subject. I apologize from the start if "Instant Glorification" is not the proper term.

Sorry to hear about your sister in law. To answer your question, the only hope for the Christian is the resurrection. There is no instant Glorification. When people die they are dead. Many don't like that idea and believe they live on after death and will take passages of Scripture and infer from them that they will live on after death. However, the Bible teaches no such thing
 
  • Agree
Reactions: Lazarus Short
Upvote 0

Hillsage

One 4 Him & Him 4 all
Supporter
Jun 12, 2009
5,244
1,767
The land of OZ
✟322,350.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
This has been nagging at me for some time, and it really did not gel in my mind until I was halfway through the thread title.

My sister-in-law died this morning. That made me think of every comment you commonly hear at funerals and the like:

They're in a better place...or with the Lord...or walking those streets of gold...or singing in the choir invisible...in the bosom of Abraham...or in short, poof, already in Heaven.

OTOH, we are told in the Bible to look forward to the Resurrection. Now, if we've already been in the Kingdom for some time, that sounds a bit creepy to me. How about you?

Are these two ideas even compatible? I'd like to see what others have to say on the subject. I apologize from the start if "Instant Glorification" is not the proper term.
Laz, long time no talk. I too am sorry for your loss.

Personally, I don't believe in the rapture...anymore. Even though we cut our teeth on it, and being in agreement with my wife, that we were so close to entering the 7 years of that 'great tribulation' before it, that we wouldn't even think of Karen being pregnant or breastfeeding, in those days....soon to come.


MAT 24:19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!


All that coming from our indoctrination according to the false teaching of Hal Lindsey and his book which we devoured called 'The Late Great Planet Earth'. A book which sit on the shelf next to our bible. A book which is on 'I don't even know 'which' of his many 'revisions' he has since made, because he was a false prophet and teacher for sure in the first book. But they sold so good that he just change his theology definitions, kind of like Jehovah witnesses did after more than 144,00 joined their church membership. For those not knowing, in their beginning, that's all they believed would go to heaven, so you needed to get on 'their' church rolls while you could. Anyway the 'sheep' keep buying Hal's latest revision. :doh: OH, and we are on our 5th grandchild with the oldest being 24 now. :)

OK, as to your question, and my present belief. Man is a triune being, we are a spirit we have a soul and we live in a body.

1TH 5:23 May the God of peace himself sanctify you wholly; and may your spirit and soul and body be kept sound and blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

So when you die what happens to ALL THREE parts of your ONE 'HUMAN BEING? I believe your body/flesh returns to that which God made Adam out of and your spirit returns to God the spirit from whence it came.

ECC 12:7 and the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

That leaves one 1l3 of you left...where? I won't go in to depth, but those who believe, teach and quote scriptures believing in soul sleep are the camp I'm in. Your soul sleeps awaiting the day of judgment when ALL the graves will be opened and we will ALL stand before the judgment seat of Christ. Not to be judged as to whether or not our spirit was born again...that's the Great white throne judgment. The bema judgment is a judgment of the works of your soul which were manifested in how you 'walked with your flesh/body'. And those soul works determine your rewards IN heaven...NOT whether or not you get to GO TO heaven.

2CO 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive good or evil, according to what he has done in the body.

As for all the what happened to Lazarus stuff you read. No one is accounting for the fact that Jesus had to deal with Lazarus under the OLD covenant standard because Jesus hadn't died to make availavble the NEW covenant. Everything changed then. Just like everything change for how you received 'eternal life'.

MAR 10:17 And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?" 19 You know the commandments: 'Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.'"

Anybody here teaching that theology? I hope not.
 
Upvote 0

Hillsage

One 4 Him & Him 4 all
Supporter
Jun 12, 2009
5,244
1,767
The land of OZ
✟322,350.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Some people take this verse to mean .... that the thief on the cross went to heaven that day (along with Jesus) ... this simply is not true and we know this because in acts Jesus himself did not ascend to heaven until 40 days later.
It is true, but only consistent with what happened to his spirit in Ecc 12:7 and now here in;

LUK 23:46 Then Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!" And having said this he breathed his last.

So where did the body of Jesus go? The tomb, just like the thief next to him. Actually just like both thieves. Saved and unsaved.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,698
5,613
Utah
✟713,373.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
It is true, but only consistent with what happened to his spirit in Ecc 12:7 and now here in;

LUK 23:46 Then Jesus, crying with a loud voice, said, "Father, into thy hands I commit my spirit!" And having said this he breathed his last.

So where did the body of Jesus go? The tomb, just like the thief next to him. Actually just like both thieves. Saved and unsaved.

Yes, bodily of course ... however in that verse, what about His (Jesus) spirit?

Breath of life sustaining from His human form/life? Would have to be wouldn't it?

As some believe one's spirit/soul when they die continues on ... (goes somewhere)

Have studied this a lot and that just isn't supported by scripture.

So in regard to the OP, instant glorification is not possible.

1 Corinthians 15:43 ) The corpse that's planted is no beauty, but when it's raised, it's glorious. Put in the ground weak, it comes up powerful.

Glorification does not happen until the 1st resurrection, and that happens when He returns .... therefore all (at earthly death) wait in the grave (dormant, no thoughts etc)

Our salvation is finally and fully accomplished when we are either glorified in the resurrection or translated to heaven. Through glorification God shares with the redeemed His own radiant glory. This is the hope that all of us, as God's children, anticipate. Said Paul, "And we rejoice in our hope of sharing the glory of God" (Rom. 5:2, RSV).
 
Upvote 0

Hillsage

One 4 Him & Him 4 all
Supporter
Jun 12, 2009
5,244
1,767
The land of OZ
✟322,350.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Yes, bodily of course ... however in that verse, what about His (Jesus) spirit?

Breath of life sustaining from His human form/life? Would have to be wouldn't it?

As some believe one's spirit/soul when they die continues on ... (goes somewhere)

Have studied this a lot and that just isn't supported by scripture.
I believe I shared scriptures proving that when the spirit departs, it goes to God which causes physical or bodily death upon leaving. Is that consistent with what you would believe? But let me add this. I do not define the 'breath of God' as oxygen. I define 'breath of God' as spirit life and the symbolic/metaphorical definition of spirit is "wind or air".

As I'm sure you know definitions of words are very important to 'mutual' understanding. Understanding not only one another but also the truth. So I'm reading you saying "form/life" as well as "spirit/soul". Can you unpack for me just what you mean with those two quotes? Are you saying, with those slashed words, that 'they are related' and if so just how do you relate or define them individually. Especially in regard to the triune human being.

So in regard to the OP, instant glorification is not possible.

1 Corinthians 15:43 ) The corpse that's planted is no beauty, but when it's raised, it's glorious. Put in the ground weak, it comes up powerful.

Glorification does not happen until the 1st resurrection, and that happens when He returns .... therefore all (at earthly death) wait in the grave (dormant, no thoughts etc)

Our salvation is finally and fully accomplished when we are either glorified in the resurrection or translated to heaven. Through glorification God shares with the redeemed His own radiant glory. This is the hope that all of us, as God's children, anticipate. Said Paul, "And we rejoice in our hope of sharing the glory of God" (Rom. 5:2, RSV).

I would agree that 'instant glorification' is not accomplished here on earth. But there is a degree of glorification which can and does occur this side of the grave even in our 'mortal' bodies.

In the context of this verse below we see that Moses body was also glorified to a great degree on Mount Horeb. Even though the 'brightness' of his glory/splendor faded with time.

2CO 3:12 Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, 13 not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not see the end of the fading splendor.......18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being changed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

Your thoughts?
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,698
5,613
Utah
✟713,373.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I believe I shared scriptures proving that when the spirit departs, it goes to God which causes physical or bodily death upon leaving. Is that consistent with what you would believe? But let me add this. I do not define the 'breath of God' as oxygen. I define 'breath of God' as spirit life and the symbolic/metaphorical definition of spirit is "wind or air".

As I'm sure you know definitions of words are very important to 'mutual' understanding. Understanding not only one another but also the truth. So I'm reading you saying "form/life" as well as "spirit/soul". Can you unpack for me just what you mean with those two quotes? Are you saying, with those slashed words, that 'they are related' and if so just how do you relate or define them individually. Especially in regard to the triune human being.



I would agree that 'instant glorification' is not accomplished here on earth. But there is a degree of glorification which can and does occur this side of the grave even in our 'mortal' bodies.

In the context of this verse below we see that Moses body was also glorified to a great degree on Mount Horeb. Even though the 'brightness' of his glory/splendor faded with time.

2CO 3:12 Since we have such a hope, we are very bold, 13 not like Moses, who put a veil over his face so that the Israelites might not see the end of the fading splendor.......18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being changed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

Your thoughts?

2 Corinthians

18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into His image with intensifying glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

Moses ... reflected the glory

so, the reflection being a degree (differs or different)

Being the OP was in relationship to an earthly death ... then in earthly death one can no longer reflect the glory of the Lord, because they are in the grave (so I took that instant glorification was referring to full glorification, yet to come)

full glorification will be when, when we are changed and become like Him (1st resurrection) ie does not happen instantaneously when one dies.
 
Upvote 0

Hillsage

One 4 Him & Him 4 all
Supporter
Jun 12, 2009
5,244
1,767
The land of OZ
✟322,350.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
2 Corinthians

18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into His image with intensifying glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.

so, the reflection being a degree (differs or different)

Moses ... reflected the glory
I believe the glory/splendor/brightness on Moses face was dimming like a light bulb being dimmed from less juice...from within.

IMO there are many more translations which differ with your NIV version above. It appears to be a minority view as far as I'm concerned with the below translations.

KJV 2CO 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

RSV 2CO 3:18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being changed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

NAS 2CO 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.


IOW, I think scripture is pretty clear that the glory comes from the spirit of Christ within and it manifests his image as perfectly or as imperfectly as a mirror. A reflection determined by, as much as, the spirit of Christ as is "formed" in our body.

GAL 4:19 My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!

A little child formation is an 'immature Christian formation' of Christ in us, therefore leaving a poor reflection of Christ through us to the world or other saints in the church, I think.


Being the OP was in relationship to an earthly death ... then in earthly death one can no longer reflect the glory of the Lord, because they are in the grave (so I took that instant glorification was referring to full glorification, yet to come)

full glorification will be when, when we are changed and become like Him (1st resurrection) ie does not happen instantaneously when one dies.

I think we've drifted from the OP actually.
 
Upvote 0

eleos1954

God is Love
Supporter
Nov 14, 2017
9,698
5,613
Utah
✟713,373.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
I believe the glory/splendor/brightness on Moses face was dimming like a light bulb being dimmed from less juice...from within.

IMO there are many more translations which differ with your NIV version above. It appears to be a minority view as far as I'm concerned with the below translations.

KJV 2CO 3:18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

RSV 2CO 3:18 And we all, with unveiled face, beholding the glory of the Lord, are being changed into his likeness from one degree of glory to another; for this comes from the Lord who is the Spirit.

NAS 2CO 3:18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.


IOW, I think scripture is pretty clear that the glory comes from the spirit of Christ within and it manifests his image as perfectly or as imperfectly as a mirror. A reflection determined by, as much as, the spirit of Christ as is "formed" in our body.

GAL 4:19 My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!

A little child formation is an 'immature Christian formation' of Christ in us, therefore leaving a poor reflection of Christ through us to the world or other saints in the church, I think.




I think we've drifted from the OP actually.

"I think we've drifted from the OP actually."

Yeah, a little bit, not unusual, one thing leads to another ;o)

I think we agree ... any degree of glory that may be found in us (while in our earthly body) is but a reflection of Christ in us and nothing of ourselves.

In relation to our earthly death, glorification does not happen until the 1st resurrection.

God Bless.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,396
81
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟528,512.00
Faith
Non-Denom
This has been nagging at me for some time, and it really did not gel in my mind until I was halfway through the thread title.

My sister-in-law died this morning. That made me think of every comment you commonly hear at funerals and the like:

They're in a better place...or with the Lord...or walking those streets of gold...or singing in the choir invisible...in the bosom of Abraham...or in short, poof, already in Heaven.

OTOH, we are told in the Bible to look forward to the Resurrection. Now, if we've already been in the Kingdom for some time, that sounds a bit creepy to me. How about you?

Are these two ideas even compatible? I'd like to see what others have to say on the subject. I apologize from the start if "Instant Glorification" is not the proper term.

Dear Laz: The mystery in which our Father dwells, leaves me with more questions than clear answers. There are indications that we are looking thru darkened glass at a realm of spirit and life. The writer to the Hebrews declares we "have come" to Mt. Zion & to the spirits of just men "made perfect". St. Paul indicates his desire to depart this realm "to be with Christ".

I find it hard to conceive that the life of our God in this mortal man (particulary the "especially" of His grace) must wait in the graveyard for the last call of metamorphoo.

"We all must die and are like water spilled on the ground that cannot be gathered up again, but the Lord does not take away life, instead He devises ways for the banished to be restored."
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Lazarus Short
Upvote 0

Hillsage

One 4 Him & Him 4 all
Supporter
Jun 12, 2009
5,244
1,767
The land of OZ
✟322,350.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
"I think we've drifted from the OP actually."

Yeah, a little bit, not unusual, one thing leads to another ;o)
True, and those who first landed on this thread do appear to have flown anyway.

I think we agree ... any degree of glory that may be found in us (while in our earthly body) is but a reflection of Christ in us and nothing of ourselves.
Not so sure about that. Below, brother FineLinen mentions the metamorphoo. A Greek word used only a few times in the NT. Once of Jesus on the mount of 'transfiguration', two is of Moses in the 2Cor text I mentioned earlier. And lastly is here;

ROM 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed/metamorphoo by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


In relation to our earthly death, glorification does not happen until the 1st resurrection.

God Bless.
So, I'm thinking there is a glorification that is available here and now. And that we are to seek to manifest it here an now even as we seek to honor God here and now.

ROM 2:7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;

I'm don't think this verse is speaking of seeking any of those three things in the hereafter. :idea:
 
Upvote 0

FineLinen

Senior Veteran
Supporter
Jan 15, 2003
12,119
6,396
81
The Kingdom of His dear Son
✟528,512.00
Faith
Non-Denom
True, and those who first landed on this thread do appear to have flown anyway.


Not so sure about that. Below, brother FineLinen mentions the metamorphoo. A Greek word used only a few times in the NT. Once of Jesus on the mount of 'transfiguration', two is of Moses in the 2Cor text I mentioned earlier. And lastly is here;

ROM 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed/metamorphoo by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.


So, I'm thinking there is a glorification that is available here and now. And that we are to seek to manifest it here an now even as we seek to honor God here and now.

ROM 2:7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;

I'm don't think this verse is speaking of seeking any of those three things in the hereafter. :idea:

Dear Hillsage: There appears to be so much that evades our grasp in the glorious heavenly Realm of our God. Your thoughts in this post reflect what Abba is doing now in the remnant of His great love & grace in the present continuous tense of becoming.

Ah, metamorphoo! Beginning in the mind of a crawling creature, something akin to heavenly transformation begins with a weaving out of which emerges new dimensions of grandeur!

freedombutterfly.jpg
 
Upvote 0

Hillsage

One 4 Him & Him 4 all
Supporter
Jun 12, 2009
5,244
1,767
The land of OZ
✟322,350.00
Country
United States
Faith
Charismatic
Marital Status
Married
Dear Hillsage: There appears to be so much that evades our grasp in the glorious heavenly Realm of our God. Your thoughts in this post reflect what Abba is doing now in the remnant of His great love & grace in the present continuous tense of becoming.

Ah, metamorphoo! Beginning in the mind of a crawling creature, something akin to heavenly transformation begins with a weaving out of which emerges new dimensions of grandeur!

freedombutterfly.jpg
I was told long ago about the story of a pastor in a Japanese POW camp. When it was discovered he was a Christian Pastor he was pulled out of the ranks and taken outside the camp to dig his grave and be shot. As he dug he lamented and whined to God about how unfair this all was. That he, a servant of the Lord should die like this. But then his 'attitude' changed. He dwelt upon the promises of God and the glory of the hereafter, and how his tribulations and days of strife were almost over. He began to sing praises to God with an ever growing smile upon his face. Then, suddenly the guards who were standing over him with guns ready got a look of abject fear on their faces. They asked him to tell them of this God whom he was worshiping. He did, and they gave their lives to the Lord. Upon questioning them after, he asked why they had such a change of heart. As he was singing and praising.....he transfigured and was glowing with the spirit of Christ within breaking through his earthen vessel of flesh.

To what degree did this man 'manifest' the glory of the Christ within? I don't know. I can't even find an account on Google to support this story I heard decades ago. So I'll give a personal testimony, for what it's worth to unbelieving believers here.

Several years back, I was asked to attend a deliverance session with the sister and brother in law of a young Mexican man I was mentoring at the time. They were visiting from a town a 100 miles away. His sister was being pulled out of bed by the feet at night by a demon, with her husband hanging on to keep her. This was something that brother said he'd witness as a child in Mexico growing up when their mom was part of some occult thing. It had quit when they left Mexico for America, But now was back. A group of us went to pray over them. Every one gathered around and prayed, declared, 'cast out in the name of Jesus' for a length of time. It was a time I couldn't even enter into because of the chaos and yelling as though demons had to respond because authority in creased with volume. :doh:So I sit an prayed for 'His word' to pray, before even joining the others. But it was 'a word' which never came until everyone else quit. Surprised when it did come, I stood up and walked over to the couple seated in 'two chairs side by side' so 'everyone' could lay hands on them earlier. But now it was just me. I laid hands on each one's shoulder and began to pray and declare, and when I finished I sit back down. No big deal, no bells or whistles and we all went home. The next day her brother came to me and said; "This morning my sister asked me who the 'shiny one' was who prayed for them last night?" He ask her what she was talking about. She said; "Last night when that last man prayed for us, we both 'felt' something at the same time. We both opened our eyes and looked up at him and he was 'SHINING'." :amen:and :amen: Their deliverance and victory took place that night. And, even later, when they would talk to the brother on the phone they would always ask "How is the shiny one doing?" So yes I do believe in glory this side of everlasting/adios glory.
 
Last edited:
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

imMD

Active Member
Jun 18, 2019
44
24
California
✟17,026.00
Country
United States
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Just to remember . . . 2 Corinthians 5 tells us that if our earthly tent is dissolved, We Have a building not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.

Perhaps our spiritual existance is a little more substantial than we suspect!

Much love!
 
  • Agree
Reactions: FineLinen
Upvote 0