Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

LoveGodsWord said:

Well that is easy. Your claiming in your posts that I believe is salvation by works yet I believe no such and despite me correcting you directly more then three times letting you know exactly what it is I believe by saying to you that OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8, you continue to post I am saying the opposite. Do you believe bearing false witness against your neighbore is a sin?

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Answer plainly... Is salvation contingent on the 10 commandments? Is justification measured by the 10 commandments?

No answer is an answer.

mdamon0501 said:

Grip has been trying to talk about Matthew 5:20 for awhile now. What Jesus means there is that the commandments which were given on Sinai are for the spiritual children of Hagar. Being under the Law of Sin and Death, yes, Jesus is correct, they would have to be more righteous than the Scribes and Pharisees. But Jesus has come to establish the Law through Faith. All of those scriptures deal with the core issue at the heart of the Gospel, for what reason did Christ die?

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Well stated!

AND - what Jesus and the epistles go on to explain is that the "law through faith" was established from the foundations of the world because Jesus was the lamb slain from the foundations of the world.

I've come to the conclusion that the Old and New Testaments are really two sides of the same coin. It is all rather "one covenant" (to use "reformation language". There is only One who ever obeyed the law perfectly. And that was because the law is spiritual and He had a Divine nature. God's obviously not capable of breaking His own law!

The temporal nature of Adam is what made him corruptible by the knowledge of good and evil to begin with. Though Adam had "freedom of choice"; he was not free from the consequences of obtaining that knowledge of good and evil.

Jesus on the other hand, having an aspect of his/His personhood that was Divine; was not corruptible by that knowledge. Now in the flesh He still could have chose to disobey; yet being created as an entity that was indeed wholly spiritual as well as "materially carnal", he was the only one capable of fulfilling the requirement of what these passages that speak of sinlessness demand.

So yeah, speaking of "bond woman" and "free woman". (Wow!)

Believers still contend with "remaining sin" because we don't cease to be the seed of the first Adam, even when we are born of the Spirit. Born of the Spirit does not mean 'conceived by the Holy Ghost'! We will never become in this life what Jesus was; because we did not start from the same origin point.

Grip Docility said:

They weren't so Eternal when ... wait for it... Moses cast them down towards the worship of a golden calf!

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Good catch - interesting - Moses "destroyed" the 10 commandments.

Oscarr said:

By your theology the only saved person is the one who has achieved a state where they are fully like Christ, that their sanctification is fully complete with no fault, shortcoming or failure. In other words, they have shed their mortal body and have now received their glorified body before they have even got to heaven! I would love to meet someone like that to find out what their secret in achieving perfection is.

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Didn't say that.

Here's my quote you responded to:

So apparently you're objecting to the apostle John, misconstruing what he said. John also said, "We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us." 1John 4:6 I hear what he's saying, do you?

Grip Docility said:

Love is eternal. Love is the eternal Law of God.

Satan was the Angel that leveraged the Stone Law Against mankind. I gave you the proof verses that couldn’t be more plain.

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And this was the "power of death" Satan "possessed" (the accusation rightfully leveled by the law). There seems to be a camp out there who don't understand that the atonement had everything to do with satisfying the wrath of God as is deserved upon sinners. They can only see as far as Jesus destroying Satan; yet fail to see their real danger comes from God because of their sin. Satan is but a mere actor in the overall Divine "play".

The Righterzpen said:

And this was the "power of death" Satan "possessed" (the accusation rightfully leveled by the law). There seems to be a camp out there who don't understand that the atonement had everything to do with satisfying the wrath of God as is deserved upon sinners. They can only see as far as Jesus destroying Satan; yet fail to see their real danger comes from God because of their sin. Satan is but a mere actor in the overall Divine "play".

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Yes

Though I see Satans evil as genuine and of his own will.

CharismaticLady said:

I disagree.

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I disagree to. The "son of perdition" / (anti-Christ) is named in John 17:12 as Judas. Dispensationalism is a heresy; but that's the subject of another thread.

Wordkeeper said:

Peter told Ananias that he could have kept all the proceeds of his sale for himself and use it freely as he wished, since it belonged to him. Sin became sin only when he committed a disloyal action.

There was no sin of "omission"...

When he joined the church, his action was like that of Israel in leaving Egypt. But repentance, meta noia, requires completion: not only must a person leave serving mammon for treasure that rusts, he must start serving God for treasure that never perishes. It seems that Ananias was in transition: he left Egypt, but he had not yet committed to God, like Joshua in the OT and Peter in the NT.

Joshua 24
14Now, therefore, fear the LORD and serve Him in sincerity and truth; cast aside the gods your fathers served beyond the Euphrates and in Egypt, and serve the LORD. 15But if it is unpleasing in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselvesthis day whom you will serve, whether the gods your fathersserved beyond the Euphrates, or the gods of the Amorites in whoseland you are living. As for me and my house, we will serve the LORD!”

Matthew 19
27"Look!" Peter replied. "We have left everything and followed you. So what will we get?"

But (and it's a big "but"), God never faulted him for sitting on the fence. He was only found sinning when he reverted back to craving for the treasures of Egypt.

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None of these address the statement I made though.

LoveGodsWord said:

Hmm hatrick. None of what you have posted is true about anything I have said. How is anything you have said is true in any of the last three posts you have provided when I have only ever stated that . OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8 and that the seal of God is the Holy Spirit? It is sad you feel the need to make things up that have no truth in them brother rather then address the scriptures and the posts that have been provided to you. I will leave that between you and God.

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The use of scripture here and the duplicitous doctrine assertions further confirm my findings.

In post 588, the 4th Commandment is exalted, as well as the rest of the Law.

The way this type of doctrine reads is essentially the following...

Salvation is a free gift, but once you're saved, you are bound to maintain that salvation by obedience to Law. The Holy Spirit is said to be the seal, but the Law is powerful enough to "remove" the Holy Spirit from a Believer.

It is duplicitous as best and dishonest at the worst.

Post 588 is my defense, that I am being honest

LoveGodsWord said:

THEY WENT OUT FROM US.. (1 JOHN 2:18-19)
God's Word does indeed have an answer to those who fall away brother, but not by your interpretation of these scriptures.

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LoveGodsWord said:

If they contunued with us then they would be of us (by continuing to believe and follow the truth of God's Word) and would have been of us.

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There's yet another example of you making out your own comments to be scripture. You've been putting direct quotes from scripture in red. Yet what you've put above in red is not a quote from scripture but rather your attempt to make scripture say what you want.

Here' what the phrase imbedded in 1John 2:19 actually says, "if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us" NIV And here's how you butchered it: "If they contunued with us then they would be of us (by continuing to believe and follow the truth of God's Word) and would have been of us."

LoveGodsWord said:

Let's now link these scriptures back to the previous post in JOHN 8:31-36. Do you remember the conditions that JESUS states for those who are His DISCIPLES and as PAUL says CONTINUED WITH US?

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And once again you confusion conditions for salvation with the description of the saved.

LoveGodsWord said:

Then we read of BELIEVERS that have received God's Spirit and have fallen away.. HEBREWS 6:4-8

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Again you misconstrue passages talking about nominal Christians committing apostasy as if the passage is referring to the saved losing salvation.

Again Kenneth Wuest (A Translator of the NASB) on
Heb 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, (NIV)

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (AV)

"Partakers of the Holy Ghost"
We must be careful to note that the Greek word translated "partakers" does not mean "possessors," in the sense that these Hebrews possessed the Holy Spirit as an indwelling Person who had come to take up His permanent abode in their hearts. The word is a compound of the Greek verb "to have or hold", and a preposition meaning "with" thus "to hold with." It is used in Luke 5:7 where it is translated "partners," signifying one who co-operates with another in a common task or undertaking. It is used in Hebrews 1:9 where the angels are "fellows" of our Lord, partners or associates with Him in the work of salvation. It is used in Hebrews 3:1 where the recipients of this letter are called participators in the heavenly calling. That is, they participated together in the heavenly calling. These Hebrews had left the earthly calling of the nation Israel, and had identified themselves with the Church which has a heavenly calling. It is used in Hebrews 3:14, where it speaks of those who participate together in the Lord Jesus.

The word (metochos) was so used in secular Greek. Moulton and Milligan give examples of its usage in the following phrases: "We, Dionysius son of Socrates and the associate collectors;" Pikos son of Pamonthes and his colleagues," "the Joint-owner of a holding," "I am unable to take part in the cultivation," "Some do so because they are partners in their misdeeds." Thus the word signifies one who participates with another in a common activity or possession. It is so used here. These Hebrews became participators in the Holy Spirit insofar as an unsaved person can do so, namely, in the sense that they willingly co-operated with Him in receiving His pre-salvation ministry, that of leading them on step by step toward the act of faith. He had led them into the act of repentance. The next step would be that of faith. Here they were in danger of turning their backs upon the Spirit and returning to the sacrifices. Peter in his first epistle (1:2) in the words, "through sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience," speaks of this work of the Holy Spirit on the unsaved, setting them apart from unbelief to faith. This word in its context does not at all imply that these Hebrews had been born of the Spirit, sealed with the Spirit, indwelt by the Spirit, anointed with the Spirit, baptized by the Spirit into the Body of Christ, or filled with the Spirit. This work of the Holy Spirit in leading them on towards faith was a once-for-all work, so thoroughly done that it needed never to be repeated. However, there was nothing permanent of itself in this work, for the work was only a means to an end. This is shown by the aorist participle used, referring to the mere fact, not a perfect, speaking of a finished act having present results. The fact that the writer did not use the perfect tense here, which is a specialized tense, but rather the aorist, which is the maid of all work, points to the incompleteness of the work of the Spirit in the case of these Hebrews. So far as the work had been done, it was perfect, thorough. But it would not be complete until the Hebrews accepted the proffered faith from the Spirit. The incompleteness of the work would be due, therefore, not to the Spirit, but to their willingness to go on as a partner or cooperator with the Spirit.
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LoveGodsWord said:

Not at all. You have not provided a single scripture that teaches once saved always saved.

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Some among the many verses indicating faith as the sole condition for salvation: John 3:16; John 5:24; Rom 4:1-8; Gal 3;11,12; Rom 10:1-13; Eph 2:8,9;

Some among the many verses indicating once saved, always saved: 1John 2:19; Rom 8:1,2; Rom 8:38,39; John 5:24; 2Tim 4:18; John 10:9; Acts 2:21; Acts 16:31; Rom 6:5; Rom 6:8; Rom 10:9; 1Tim 2:11; 1Cor 3:15; 2Cor 1:21,22; Eph 1:5,11,13-14; Heb 7:25; 1Pet 1:3-5;

Some among the many verses speaking of performance being an indicator rather than the cause of a person's salvation. (Salvation by Works Christians typically confuse the condition for salvation with the condition of the saved) 1John 3:9,10; 1John 3:6; 2Cor 5:17; Jer 31:33,34; Rom 8:9; 1John 5:3-5; Jer 32:38-41

Romans 3:21-31 NASB

But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, [22] even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe; for there is no distinction; [23] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, [24] being justified as a gift by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; [25] whom God displayed publicly as a propitiation in His blood through faith. This was to demonstrate His righteousness, because in the forbearance of God He passed over the sins previously committed; [26] for the demonstration, I say, of His righteousness at the present time, so that He would be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. [27] Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith. [28] For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law. [29] Or is God the God of Jews only? Is He not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, [30] since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. [31] Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

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LoveGodsWord said:

MATTHEW 24:13 [12], And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. [13], But he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

MARK 13:13 [13], And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure to the end, the same shall be saved.

HEBREWS 3:13-14 [13], But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. [14], For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

HEBREWS 3:6 [6], But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm to the end.

COLOSSIANS 1:12-14; 23
[12], Giving thanks to the Father, which has made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light:
[13], Who has delivered us from the power of darkness, and has translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
[14], In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins.....
[23], If you continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which you have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister

ROMANS 6:22 [22], But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end everlasting life.

REVELATION 2:26 [26], And he that overcomes, and keeps my works to the end, to him will I give power over the nations

2 THESSALONIANS 2:1-3 [1], Now we beseech you, brothers, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together to him, [2], That you be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. [3], Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition

HEBREWS 10:26-27 [26], For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sins, [27], But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

HEBREWS 6:4-8 [4], For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, [5], And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6], If they shall fall away, to renew them again to repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. [7], For the earth which drinks in the rain that comes oft on it, and brings forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receives blessing from God:
[8], But that which bears thorns and briers is rejected, and is near to cursing; whose end is to be burned.

MATTHEW 13:18-23 [18], Hear you therefore the parable of the sower.
[19], When any one hears the word of the kingdom, and understands it not, then comes the wicked one, and catches away that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by the way side. [20], But he that received the seed into stony places, the same is he that hears the word, and immediately with joy receives it; [21], Yet has he not root in himself, but endures for a while: for when tribulation or persecution rises because of the word, by and by he is offended. [22], He also that received seed among the thorns is he that hears the word; and the care of this world, and the deceitfulness of riches, choke the word, and he becomes unfruitful.[23], But he that received seed into the good ground is he that hears the word, and understands it; which also bears fruit, and brings forth, some an hundred times, some sixty, some thirty.

REVELATION 2:26 And he that overcomes, and keeps my works to the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

REVELATION 3:5 He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

REVELATION 3:12 Him that overcomes will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write on him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from my God: and I will write on him my new name.

REVELATION 3:21 To him that overcomes will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

REVELATION 21:7 He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

wait for it...

JAMES 1:12 [12], Blessed is the man that endures temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord has promised to them that love him.

Now who are all these WARNINGS to BELIEVERS or UNBELIEVERS?

Hope this helps

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Mt 24:13:Mk 13:13 In light of 1John 2:19 enduring to the end doesn't cause salvation but rather indicates genuine faith. In fact your reference to Heb 3:13-14; Heb 3:6; Col 1:12-14,23; and you could have included 1Cor 15:2, all speak about a past or present condition being true only if a future condition is true. Which is to say that if a person doesn't endure in their confidence of faith to the end, then they were never really of the faith to begin with. Which is the same as 1John 2:19

As for Rom 6:22; Rev 22:6; And the list of Rev verses on overcoming are all taking about the effects of being saved. As it says, "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9 for example. And as for "overcoming", it's again an indicator that one had been born of God rather than being a condition to be saved, as it says, "everyone born of God overcomes the world." 1John 5:4

Stop confusing conditions for salvation with the condition of the saved.

The falling away of 2Thess 2 are referring to the apostasy of false brethren, like those who abandon the gospel of grace for a salvation by works soteriology. Likewise for Heb 6:4 passage. I had previously provided an analysis of that passage by one of the NASB translators who shows that it's referring to nominal Christians falling away. The sower parable of Mt 13 is one of a number of parables of Mt 13 that speak of nominal faith among the Christian community. Only those with saving faith are saved.

And as for the "crown of life" of James 1:12 it's not eternal life. It's a reward, not a gift. There will be a judgement for those born of God mentioned in 1Cor 3:11-15. It's not a heaven/hell judgement. But rather a judgement for rewards IN ADDITION to salvation, as it says in 1Cor 3:15 that no matter what the person will still be saved. And that's the context of what verses like 1Co 9:24 "Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize." If the prize is eternal life, then clearly that would be contrary to eternal life being a free gift. If you view the prize as eternal life, then you believe in salvation by works.

bcbsr said:

There's yet another example of you making out your own comments to be scripture. You've been putting direct quotes from scripture in red. Yet what you've put above in red is not a quote from scripture but rather your attempt to make scripture say what you want.

Here' what the phrase imbedded in 1John 2:19 actually says, "if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us" NIV And here's how you butchered it: "If they contunued with us then they would be of us (by continuing to believe and follow the truth of God's Word) and would have been of us."

And once again you confusion conditions for salvation with the description of the saved.

Again you misconstrue passages talking about nominal Christians committing apostasy as if the passage is referring to the saved losing salvation.

Again Kenneth Wuest (A Translator of the NASB) on
Heb 6:4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, (NIV)

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (AV)

"Partakers of the Holy Ghost"
We must be careful to note that the Greek word translated "partakers" does not mean "possessors," in the sense that these Hebrews possessed the Holy Spirit as an indwelling Person who had come to take up His permanent abode in their hearts. The word is a compound of the Greek verb "to have or hold", and a preposition meaning "with" thus "to hold with." It is used in Luke 5:7 where it is translated "partners," signifying one who co-operates with another in a common task or undertaking. It is used in Hebrews 1:9 where the angels are "fellows" of our Lord, partners or associates with Him in the work of salvation. It is used in Hebrews 3:1 where the recipients of this letter are called participators in the heavenly calling. That is, they participated together in the heavenly calling. These Hebrews had left the earthly calling of the nation Israel, and had identified themselves with the Church which has a heavenly calling. It is used in Hebrews 3:14, where it speaks of those who participate together in the Lord Jesus.

The word (metochos) was so used in secular Greek. Moulton and Milligan give examples of its usage in the following phrases: "We, Dionysius son of Socrates and the associate collectors;" Pikos son of Pamonthes and his colleagues," "the Joint-owner of a holding," "I am unable to take part in the cultivation," "Some do so because they are partners in their misdeeds." Thus the word signifies one who participates with another in a common activity or possession. It is so used here. These Hebrews became participators in the Holy Spirit insofar as an unsaved person can do so, namely, in the sense that they willingly co-operated with Him in receiving His pre-salvation ministry, that of leading them on step by step toward the act of faith. He had led them into the act of repentance. The next step would be that of faith. Here they were in danger of turning their backs upon the Spirit and returning to the sacrifices. Peter in his first epistle (1:2) in the words, "through sanctification of the Spirit unto obedience," speaks of this work of the Holy Spirit on the unsaved, setting them apart from unbelief to faith. This word in its context does not at all imply that these Hebrews had been born of the Spirit, sealed with the Spirit, indwelt by the Spirit, anointed with the Spirit, baptized by the Spirit into the Body of Christ, or filled with the Spirit. This work of the Holy Spirit in leading them on towards faith was a once-for-all work, so thoroughly done that it needed never to be repeated. However, there was nothing permanent of itself in this work, for the work was only a means to an end. This is shown by the aorist participle used, referring to the mere fact, not a perfect, speaking of a finished act having present results. The fact that the writer did not use the perfect tense here, which is a specialized tense, but rather the aorist, which is the maid of all work, points to the incompleteness of the work of the Spirit in the case of these Hebrews. So far as the work had been done, it was perfect, thorough. But it would not be complete until the Hebrews accepted the proffered faith from the Spirit. The incompleteness of the work would be due, therefore, not to the Spirit, but to their willingness to go on as a partner or cooperator with the Spirit.

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Those who were believers on the Old Testament side of Pentecost were in a different position in regards to the indwelling of the Holy Ghost than those post Pentecost. This is what the epistles explain as "I will write my law on their heart."

Once the atonement had been completed in "earthly time"; the Holy Ghost was allowed to cleave unto the spirit of a believer thus conceiving in them a new creature in Christ.

Prior to this, although one in the OT may have been atoned for; the Holy Ghost only came upon certain people for the purpose of their performing a task. (like being a king, or being a prophet). After "task accomplished" the Spirit "left". He had not become a permeant part of their being.

In earthly analogy; the Holy Ghost cleaving unto a believer is the consumption of their salvation relationship to Christ. He has "claimed" them by the Spirit.

Also, just because something is "aorist" and not "perfect" doesn't mean it's not "present tense" or even something that originated as an event in the past. All "secondary tenses" are "present" that "occurred in the past". Whereas primary tenses are present or future.

Also "partaker" is not the only verb used in reference to the believer's positional relationship to the Holy Ghost. "Dwell" is also used; and "dwell" as a verb, as it relates to the Holy Ghost in a believer is generally "present tense". One can "partake" in something because of being "dwelled by". Yet one can also "not partake" in something. "Partake" is often used in reference to activities like communion, or preaching. It refers to an action taken on account of; as opposed to a state of. This is why Hebrews talks about gentile unbelievers not having permanence in things of God. If you compare all the Scriptures and put them all together, you see the reason for that is because there is no "indwelling".

CharismaticLady said:

So you are going to continue to take Romans 7:14-23 out of context? Romans 2 shows a Gentile with a conscience, and does what his conscience tells him to do, and he is a law unto himself. Even by adding verse 13 shows that the whole problem is sin.

13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful.

Sin is what Jesus came to extinguish in the flesh. He took away our sin so that we could have the Spirit to fulfill the righteous requirement of the law, without the law of sin and death. Romans 7 is about being under the law of sin and death, and having no power, but to struggle

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. 11 But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies d]">[d]through His Spirit who dwells in you.

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It goes like this...

The Law of Sin and Death is what imputes Sin... through the accusations of Satan.

Christ Crucified all charges of Sin in His flesh.

It’s either Saved from the Imputed Law, through Christ’s imputed Righteousness... or Damned by the Law.

There is no in-between.

Either a Believer is Dead to the Law and Alive in Christ... Or a Believer is Dead to Christ and Condemned by the Law.

It’s a 1 or a 0

Binary!

When someone resurrects the Law, they are Re-Crucifying Jesus Christ.

Sin cannot be imputed when someone is Dead to the Law.

If a Believer Claims that Jesus Christ’s Grace is dependent on Obedience to ordinances Of Law, they have left Christ and Rejoined with the Law.

The Believer that judges self or others by the Law of Sin and Death is no longer in Christ and their state is worse than before they knew Jesus Christ, because they are defeated by the very thing Jesus Christ freed them from the condemnation of!

CharismaticLady said:

What if you were single and committed fornication every time you go on a date. Is that sin, or imputed righteousness?

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This person would reap a life of meaningless relationships, break peoples hearts and be convicted of the selfishness of it all so deeply, that they would be humbled to the point of tears and agony.

This person would be doing this on a level between them and God.

Only God knows their heart. It is not for us to judge a person’s life.

The harlot to be joined to is the Law. The fornication is fidelity invested in Carnal Righteousness and Judgment Of fellow man.

This is what work out your own salvation with fear and trembling means.

It’s a polite way of saying, we need to mind our own business because we all are forgiven massive debts of sin we can’t afford to pay off.

To sin no more means to UNBELIEVE no more. It means that we are to have Faith that Jesus Saves genuine sinners.

Jesus is for the Broken! Not the artificially broken... or the pretend broken... but genuine sinners... hurt by a Stone world that scars us...

Compassion and Love are paramount! Maybe the lonely person has issues that the siblings in Jesus can help them deal with!

My point is... Jesus never condemned or condoned sin... but forgave real sinners and loved real sinners.

It was the self righteous that got His wrath.

Oscarr said:

(RE: manifesting humility to God)
It is in total dependence on Christ and not in anything of ourselves.

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Sorry, but if "we" are expressing something it is "us" doing it.
I would think your answer would have been more in line with..."By obeying everything He tells us to do."

Oscarr said:

You are merely expressing Arminian doctrine which includes sanctification by faith, something the Scripture does not teach anywhere. Sanctfication by faith is a false doctrine and leads to error and self-righteousness.

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All I see of what you reply to is scripture.
But as long as you are opening the door...isn't everything 'by faith'?
We accept Christ by faith, don't we? Believing that He is and that He died for our past sins?
Believing that without Him all would be consigned to destruction?
We believe that baptism in the name of Jesus Christ remits our past sins, by faith.
We have faith that the Nicene Creed (this site's regulatory anthem) is true.
Etc, etc.
To say that sanctification is by faith includes faith that it is the blood of Christ that sanctifies us, and that the blood is applied when we are "immersed" into Christ and into His death.
So, sanctification is by faith, the blood of Christ, and by our baptism.
We can't cut a single part out of the complete formula.

Belief is faith.

BTW, I regard Arminianism with all the other worthless code-words.

Phil W said:

Sorry, but if "we" are expressing something it is "us" doing it.
I would think your answer would have been more in line with..."By obeying everything He tells us to do."

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No one can obey God perfectly, but God.

The Gap between the Creator and the Creation is so great in Righteousness that He alone can be our “Ladder”.

You can’t buy that ladder. You can’t work for that ladder..

We have to admit we need the Ladder!

He is Jacob’s Ladder! We are not the Ladder and we only have access to Him by His Mercy and Love!

Grace that is merited isn’t Grace at all!

Oscarr said:

Let me get this straight. You are now fully like Christ now!!

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It is written..."Herein is our love made perfect, that we may have boldness in the day of judgment: because as he is, so are we in this world." (1 John 4:17)
We will never be alike in knowledge, not until after our resurrection at least, but God doesn't withhold the necessary things to keep us in His hands.
Are you not "as He is...in this world"?