Calvinists do not really affirm "the purpose of man is to glorify God and enjoy him forever"

Rubiks · Jun 19, 2019

…Which is what the Westminster Catechism states, which was written by Calvinists.

If Calvinists were logically consistent, this would be true of the elect, but not mankind in general.

In case some wise guy wants to argue that the statement is technically correct because "glorifying God" is was intended for all people (which would include both accepting and rejecting him, whereas enjoying him would be intended for only the elect; A statement like "the purpose of man is to enjoy God or reject him forever" would be much more appropriate. That is obviously not how it was originally intended to be understood.

Gregory Thompson · Jun 19, 2019

Rubiks said:
…Which is what the Westminster Catechism states, which was written by Calvinists.

If Calvinists were logically consistent, this would be true of the elect, but not mankind in general.

In case some wise guy wants to argue that the statement is technically correct because "glorifying God" is was intended for all people (which would include both accepting and rejecting him, whereas enjoying him would be intended for only the elect; A statement like "the purpose of man is to enjoy God or reject him forever" would be much more appropriate. That is obviously not how it was originally intended to be understood.

Yeah, if it's the purpose of man to glorify God, how does an eternal bonfire where they're in too much pain to even speak glorify Him?

You know, since only a select group of people in countries with the philosophical basis to understand Calvinism can be saved and all.

Radagast · Jun 19, 2019

Rubiks said:
If Calvinists were logically consistent, this would be true of the elect, but not mankind in general.

Maybe you should find out a bit more about logic (and about Calvinism) before you say things like that.

RichardY · Jun 19, 2019

@Rubiks
Who are the elect?

Kate30 · Jun 19, 2019

RichardY said:
@Rubiks
Who are the elect?

Who are the elect. Anyone God has chosen from the 4 corners of the world. Past , present or future.

-57 · Jun 19, 2019

Rubiks said:
…Which is what the Westminster Catechism states, which was written by Calvinists.

If Calvinists were logically consistent, this would be true of the elect, but not mankind in general.

In case some wise guy wants to argue that the statement is technically correct because "glorifying God" is was intended for all people (which would include both accepting and rejecting him, whereas enjoying him would be intended for only the elect; A statement like "the purpose of man is to enjoy God or reject him forever" would be much more appropriate. That is obviously not how it was originally intended to be understood.

Michael Collum said:
Yeah, if it's the purpose of man to glorify God, how does an eternal bonfire where they're in too much pain to even speak glorify Him?

You know, since only a select group of people in countries with the philosophical basis to understand Calvinism can be saved and all.

In order for God to express Himself completely justice was something a Holy God had to demonstrate.
God is glorified when He shows justice.

Just for the record Michael Collum....Salvation isn't based upon a philosophical basis.

Dave L · Jun 19, 2019

Rubiks said:
…Which is what the Westminster Catechism states, which was written by Calvinists.

If Calvinists were logically consistent, this would be true of the elect, but not mankind in general.

In case some wise guy wants to argue that the statement is technically correct because "glorifying God" is was intended for all people (which would include both accepting and rejecting him, whereas enjoying him would be intended for only the elect; A statement like "the purpose of man is to enjoy God or reject him forever" would be much more appropriate. That is obviously not how it was originally intended to be understood.

Sin glorifies God. It reveals his mercy, grace, justice, sovereignty and many other attributes we would not know if not for sinful people.

Gregory Thompson · Jun 19, 2019

-57 said:
Just for the record Michael Collum....Salvation isn't based upon a philosophical basis.

I understand that

But I'm observing behavioral patterns and conversations I've had with calvinist types in the past, and just get the sense that there's more to it than is told to non-calvinists.

FireDragon76 · Jun 19, 2019

Michael Collum said:
Yeah, if it's the purpose of man to glorify God, how does an eternal bonfire where they're in too much pain to even speak glorify Him?

You know, since only a select group of people in countries with the philosophical basis to understand Calvinism can be saved and all.

That's a broader problem with orthodox Christianity, actually- the inherent egoism of it. We are supposed to be happy all eternity while there is a pit of suffering that still exists. It's called by theologians "the Problem of Hell".

-57 · Jun 19, 2019

Michael Collum said:
I understand that

But I'm observing behavioral patterns and conversations I've had with calvinist types in the past, and just get the sense that there's more to it than is told to non-calvinists.

I think a Calvinist would tell you God saves you. Chooses you from before the earth was even made.

Dave L · Jun 19, 2019

-57 said:
I think a Calvinist would tell you God saves you. Chooses you from before the earth was even made.

Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. Eternal life has no beginning or end.

TheSeabass · Jun 19, 2019

RichardY said:
@Rubiks
Who are the elect?

The ones who have, by free will choice, obeyed the gospel of Christ and are added by God to the group called Christian.

Kate30 · Jun 19, 2019

-57 said:
I think a Calvinist would tell you God saves you. Chooses you from before the earth was even made.

Yes that’s what the bible tells us. He knew us before the foundation of the world. I would agree with John Calvin. You might like to also add Augustine and the apostle Paul. There are many more.

Dave L · Jun 19, 2019

Many think that by acting like a Christian you become one. But God turns people into Christians through the new birth and then they act like Christians because of their new nature.

Rubiks · Jun 19, 2019

Radagast said:
Maybe you should find out a bit more about logic (and about Calvinism) before you say things like that.

Care to explain my error?

Hammster · Jun 19, 2019

Rubiks said:
…Which is what the Westminster Catechism states, which was written by Calvinists.

If Calvinists were logically consistent, this would be true of the elect, but not mankind in general.

In case some wise guy wants to argue that the statement is technically correct because "glorifying God" is was intended for all people (which would include both accepting and rejecting him, whereas enjoying him would be intended for only the elect; A statement like "the purpose of man is to enjoy God or reject him forever" would be much more appropriate. That is obviously not how it was originally intended to be understood.

Let’s say that you are correct. What is to be gained by this?

Rubiks · Jun 19, 2019

Hammster said:
Let’s say that you are correct. What is to be gained by this?

So you agree with my original post?

I don't gain anything. I am just pointing out that "God predestines some to salvation and some to damnation for his glory" is incompatible with "God's purpose for humanity is to enjoy him forever." and "the purpose of Hell was for the devil and his angels" despite often hearing these statements (or something very similar to them) from the same people.

-57 · Jun 19, 2019

Dave L said:
Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. Eternal life has no beginning or end.

I see eternal life two ways.

One with no beginning or end...like God as well as one with a beginning, that is when a person is regenerated and eternal in a future direction.

-57 · Jun 19, 2019

TheSeabass said:
The ones who have, by free will choice, obeyed the gospel of Christ and are added by God to the group called Christian.

I've already show your so-called free-will is based upon happenstance...as the Armenian bases salvation upon your choice filtered through life's experience. That is depending upon your life's situation, what happened to you, your experiences you decide to accept or reject Christ Jesus as the savior. If you are fortunate enough to have the "correct" experiences you can choose Jesus. But as we know our salvation isn't dependent on our life's experience. It's based upon God choosing us.

TheSeabass · Jun 19, 2019

-57 said:
I've already show your so-called free-will is based upon happenstance...as the Armenian bases salvation upon your choice filtered through life's experience. That is depending upon your life's situation, what happened to you, your experiences you decide to accept or reject Christ Jesus as the savior. If you are fortunate enough to have the "correct" experiences you can choose Jesus. But as we know our salvation isn't dependent on our life's experience. It's based upon God choosing us.

One must hear the gospel to have faith (Romans 10:17). God has given Christians the duty of the great commission to take the gospel to the lost, and he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved (Mark 16:15-16). Those that do hear, believe and are baptized make up the chosen of God ie Christians. God is not a respecter of persons and unconditionally, capriciously chooses winners and losers against the will of men. Calvinism's idea of election is completely different from the Bible's teaching on election.

Calvinists do not really affirm "the purpose of man is to glorify God and enjoy him forever"

proud libtard

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

comes and goes

Holotheist. Whig. Monarchical Modalism.

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Change is inevitable, feel free to spare some.

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

proud libtard

Psalm 144:1

proud libtard

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads