Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

LoveGodsWord said:

It is ONLY those who BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD to the END that will be saved

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CharismaticLady said:

I know what I would say, but why do you believe Christ died?

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And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment, so Christ also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await him.

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bcbsr said:

Not possible given that "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." But thanks for sharing the verses you utterly misconstrued of which I've spoken to you previously. Confusing Old Covenant with New. Confusing genuine believers with those only nominally so. Artificially adding the phrase "in order to be saved" to all commands. Confusing Cause and Effect. And of course as you have done previously you'll end up claiming that anyone who disagrees with your interpretation disagrees with God's Word as you apparently have the notion that your comments are themselves the Word of God. And that's how our conversations usually go.

But central to your misreading of scripture is that your concept of the gospel lacks the concept of trusting in God which is essential to gospel. Without that trust one is not qualified to be saved. For to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

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mdamon0501 said:

The Book of Hebrews makes this incredibly clear, when read carefully. To establish a better covenant than the old, for it was flawed, and led no-one to righteousness.

Hebrews 9:28



Righteousness by Faith in Christ Alone

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mdamon0501 said:

Heading off to bed, been a pleasure everyone! Grace to you all!

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CharismaticLady said:

Me too!

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CharismaticLady said:

So if we Jesus takes away our sin, He leaves some?

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mdamon0501 said:

Grip has been trying to talk about Matthew 5:20 for awhile now. What Jesus means there is that the commandments which were given on Sinai are for the spiritual children of Hagar. Being under the Law of Sin and Death, yes, Jesus is correct, they would have to be more righteous than the Scribes and Pharisees. But Jesus has come to establish the Law through Faith. All of those scriptures deal with the core issue at the heart of the Gospel, for what reason did Christ die?

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LoveGodsWord said:

MATTHEW 5:20 is in relation to the NEW COVENANT promise of HEBREWS 8:10-12 (from JEREMIAH 31:31-34).

RIGHTOUESNESS FROM THE INSIDE OUT

JESUS came to magnify the LAW from the INSIDE OUT quoting MATTHEW 5:17-32 (thoughts and feelings) in fulfillment of *ISAIAH 42:21. This is to show that unless our RIGHTOUESNESS EXCEEDS the RIGHTOUESNESS of the Scribes and Pharisees we can in no way enter into the KINGDOM of HEAVEN. Jesus is saying the problem runs deeper then outward observance to the 10 Commandments. EVIL begins in the HEART. BREAKING GOD's 10 COMMANDMENTS from the heart defile a man *MATTHEW 15:18-19. JESUS is saying we can be outwardly perfect and blameless like the Scribes and Pharisee but inwardly like dead mans bones *MATTHEW 23:27-28. JESUS magnified the LAW to the INSIDE OUT. To show us that we are all sinners in need of a Saviour and that sin originates in the HEART (thoughts and feelings). That is why we have the NEW COVENANT promise and need to be BORN AGAIN by Faith in God's WORD for salvation to be free from SIN (breaking any one of God's 10 commandments) *HEBREWS 8:10-12; 1 JOHN 3:3-10.

If we are not BORN AGAIN into the NEW COVENANT promise and continue in it we will not enter the kingdom of Heaven *1 JOHN 2:3-4; 1 JOHN 2:3-4. ALL those who KNOWINGLY break any one of God's 10 commandments stand guilty before God of sin *JAMES 2:10-11. All those who KNOWINGLY CONTINUE in UNREPENTANT SIN will not enter into God's KINGDOM *HEBREWS 10:26-27 because they reject the gift of God's dear son *ROMANS 6:23. God's 4th Commandment is one of the 10 Commandments that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what sin is. There is no such thing as the 9 commandments in God's WORD. The same as there is no scripure that says God's 4th commandment is Abolished and we are now commanded to keep Sunday as a Holy day.

RIGHTESOUSNESS comes from LOVE because LOVE is the fulfilling of God's LAW and the very expression of what LOVE is *ROMANS 13:8-10. He that does not LOVE does not KNOW GOD for GOD IS LOVE * 1 JOHN 4:8. All those who are BORN AGAIN have a NEW HEART TO LOVE and FOLLOW GOD *1 JOHN 4:7. This is the NEW COVENANT promise *HEBREWS 8:10-12. Those who are BORN AGAIN do not practice SIN (breaking God's Commandments) *1 JOHN 3:4-9. This is why JOHN finishes on this subject by saying; For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous *1 JOHN 5:3 and is why JESUS says IF you LOVE me KEEP my commandments *JOHN 14:15. UNLESS we are BORN AGAIN under the NEW COVENANT to LOVE we will not enter the KINGDOM of HEAVEN *JOHN 3:3-7. We need to be changed from the INSIDE OUT to walk in God's Spirit. We do this by BELIEVING and FOLLOWING God's WORD.

Those who CONTINUE in known unrepentant sin are the Scribes and Pharisees and do not know the POWER of God to free the sinner from their sins.

God's bless brother.

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bcbsr said:

Yet another example of you confusing Cause and Effect. Genuine believers do persevere to the end. Their persevering doesn't cause their salvation, rather it identifies that they had already been saved.

Notice the tense:
Heb 3:14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end

Explain why the perfect tense is used there? How can something in the past be true only if something in the future is true? It's because the future event reveals what had already been the case.

Same with 1John 2:19
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us.
For if they had belonged to us, (ONCE SAVED)
they would have remained with us; (ALWAYS SAVED)
but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

In contrast, in your soteriology man is not saved by Christ, but by his own human effort. Your gospel is basically that same as those in Paul's time pushing justification by the law. You've simply replaced "the law" with a set of commands in the NT, appending each with "in order to be saved". Do you think the only possible motivation for obeying commands is in order to be saved?

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LoveGodsWord said:

1. God's 10 Commandments are not the law of MOSES *EXODUS 32:16. Your mixing up the MOSAIC BOOK of the law *EXODUS 24:7 from the old COVENANT with God's ETERNAL LAW in the NEW COVENANT that give us the KNOWLEDGE of what SIN is when broken *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11.

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LoveGodsWord said:

2. GALATIANS 3:10-12 is in reference to those who seek their salvation by the works of the law. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8.
Hope this helps

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Grip Docility said:

IMO, You’re reading it wrong. It’s not about Law Keeping.

It’s about Christ Keeping us.

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LoveGodsWord said:

No one said it is about law keeping. If no one said is is about lawkeeping why are you pretending that I am saying something that I am not? OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8.

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bcbsr said:

You're mistaken there. The 10 commandments are an essential part of the Law of Moses both in Exodus and Deuteronomy. And it is you who are the one who are confusing Old Covenant with New. The Old Covenant is "the man who does these things with live (have eternal life) by them" Gal 3:12. That's your gospel. It's a performance based salvation covenant that you preach. The New Covenant is "The righteous will live (have eternal life) by faith." Gal 3:11 Simply by believing the promise of God one has eternal life, as Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." Jn 5:24

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bcbsr said:

Yet your gospel is that a person must be obedience to God's law in order to have eternal life. Right? It's the same as "the man who does these things with live (have eternal life) by them" Gal 3:12 By you misplacing "in order to be saved" you end up with Old Covenant salvation by works. While fruit is evidence that one has already been saved, it is not the condition to be saved. You have confused the condition to be saved with the condition of the saved.

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LoveGodsWord said:

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Well that is not true. It is God's WORD not mine that says that role of God's ETERNAL LAW (10 commandments) in the NEW COVENANT is to give us a KNOWLEDGE of what sin is not me *ROMANS 3:20; ROMANS 7:7; 1 JOHN 3:4; JAMES 2:10-11. As posted to your friend. Your trying to make things up now I have never said or do I believe. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *JAMES 2:18-20; 26 and our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *MATTHEW 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50. We are saved by GRACE through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God *EPHESIANS 2:8.



It is true we seem to follow a different Gospel. In my view only God's WORD is true and we should believe and follow it *ROMANS 3:4. Sadly your words in this section are only your words and are not what I believe whatsoever. OBEDIENCE to God's LAW is not how we are saved it is the FRUIT of God's work in us as we BELIEVE and FOLLOW his WORD. You have not grasped this yet have you brother?

Not sure how many times I have posted this though.

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