Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

Presbyterian Continuist · Jun 18, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
I agree with @Phil W, and don't know how you can't see that verses 8 and 9 are to be read together. Verse 8 is mankind since Adam before Christ where all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, and 9 is how to become a Christian. Notice they are cleansed of ALL SIN, so how can we still have sin as verse 8 says?

John is writing to Christian believers, not to unbelievers.

Grip Docility · Jun 18, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Was Jesus bad???

Jesus is YHWH! Jesus is GOD!

The Righterzpen · Jun 18, 2019

Wordkeeper said:
You mean the presence of sin indicating a lack of salvation.

Which i agree with. No change in mindset, no meta noia, beginning with corrected thinking and continuing into corrected action, does reflect a lack of salvation.

Define "presence of sin".

A life that shows no evidence of repentance is evidence of having never been saved. Yet no mere mortal is ever sinless on this side of eternity.

mdamon0501 · Jun 18, 2019

This is like sitting in class with your hand raised, but the teacher just wont call on you.

bcbsr · Jun 18, 2019

Phil W said:
The key to your wonderful verse is this..."and believes Him who sent me".
Jesus said the truth would free us from committing sin...in John 8:32-34.
Do you believe it?

Do you believe that upon coming to faith a person's fate is finalized as Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24 Or do you believe in salvation by works? Is your trust in your own performance to save you? For if you feel that your salvation is contingent upon your performance, then it is in that performance that you are placing your trust to save you.

In contrast those of us who believe the gospel have placed our trust in Jesus to save us. We believe that if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile— the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Apparently you don't believe as we do.

CharismaticLady · Jun 18, 2019

Oscarr said:
John is writing to Christian believers, not to unbelievers.

So if we Jesus takes away our sin, He leaves some?

mdamon0501 · Jun 18, 2019

*cough* Sinai *cough*

Galatians 4:24-31

CharismaticLady · Jun 18, 2019

Grip Docility said:
Jesus is YHWH! Jesus is GOD!

Right, but the scripture you quoted has Jesus telling them not to call him good.

CharismaticLady · Jun 18, 2019

bcbsr said:
Do you believe that upon coming to faith a person's fate is finalized as Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24 Or do you believe in salvation by works? Is your trust in your own performance to save you? For if you feel that your salvation is contingent upon your performance, then it is in that performance that you are placing your trust to save you.

In contrast those of us who believe the gospel have placed our trust in Jesus to save us. We believe that if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile— the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him,for, "Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved."

Apparently you don't believe as we do.

Do you believe in positional righteousness, or practicing righteousness?

LoveGodsWord · Jun 18, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Times of ignorance were when they didn't know who the Messiah was, now they know. The time of ignorance is over.

As for James, if you walk in the Spirit you won't sin.

Nope JAMES 4:17 and ACTS 17:30-31 does not say that whatsoever. Are you 1stCenturyLady?

Grip Docility · Jun 18, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Right, but the scripture you quoted has Jesus telling them not to call him good.

No... it has Him “God winking”.

He asks why they call Him Good and says only God is Good.

God is Saying only God is Good.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 18, 2019

Grip Docility said:
Sin reigned Long before the Law.

It has everything to do with these verses.

1 Corinthians 15:54-56 ; Hebrews 2:14

That is my answer.

What was born in Mt. Sanai?

My question to you that you did not respond to was...

Do you know why God gave us His 10 commandments? What do you think the scriptures mean here *MATTHEW 5:20; MATTHEW 9:12-13; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4; ROMANS 13:8-10; HEBREWS 8:10-12?

You do not have to answer the questions just say so if you do not know.

mdamon0501 · Jun 18, 2019

Grip has been trying to talk about Matthew 5:20 for awhile now. What Jesus means there is that the commandments which were given on Sinai are for the spiritual children of Hagar. Being under the Law of Sin and Death, yes, Jesus is correct, they would have to be more righteous than the Scribes and Pharisees. But Jesus has come to establish the Law through Faith. All of those scriptures deal with the core issue at the heart of the Gospel, for what reason did Christ die?

Grip Docility · Jun 18, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
My question to you that you did not respond to was...

Do you know why God gave us His 10 commandments? What do you think the scriptures mean here *MATTHEW 5:20; MATTHEW 9:12-13; ROMANS 3:31; ROMANS 8:1-4; ROMANS 13:8-10; HEBREWS 8:10-12?

You do not have to answer the questions just say so if you do not know.

You don’t like my answer, but I gave it.

The Stone was born on Sainai

bcbsr · Jun 18, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Indeed ! Only problem with your message here is that God's WORD WARNS us that we can GRIEVE and EXTINGUISH (put out) God's Spirit if we choose as BORN AGAIN BELIEVERS do not CONTINUE to BELIEVE and FOLLOW God's WORD and return to a life of sin...

Not possible given that "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." But thanks for sharing the verses you utterly misconstrued of which I've spoken to you previously. Confusing Old Covenant with New. Confusing genuine believers with those only nominally so. Artificially adding the phrase "in order to be saved" to all commands. Confusing Cause and Effect. And of course as you have done previously you'll end up claiming that anyone who disagrees with your interpretation disagrees with God's Word as you apparently have the notion that your comments are themselves the Word of God. And that's how our conversations usually go.

But central to your misreading of scripture is that your concept of the gospel lacks the concept of trusting in God which is essential to gospel. Without that trust one is not qualified to be saved. For to the man who does not work but trusts God who justifies the wicked, his faith is credited as righteousness.

Grip Docility · Jun 18, 2019

mdamon0501 said:
Grip has been trying to talk about Matthew 5:20 for awhile now. What Jesus means there is that the commandments which were given on Sinai are for the spiritual children of Hagar. Being under the Law of Sin and Death, yes, Jesus is correct, they would have to be more righteous than the Scribes and Pharisees. But Jesus has come to establish the Law through Faith. All of those scriptures deal with the core issue at the heart of the Gospel, for what reason did Christ die?

That’s a fact! :oldthumbsup:

CharismaticLady · Jun 18, 2019

mdamon0501 said:
for what reason did Christ die?

I know what I would say, but why do you believe Christ died?

CharismaticLady · Jun 18, 2019

LoveGodsWord said:
Nope JAMES 4:17 and ACTS 17:30-31 does not say that whatsoever. Are you 1stCenturyLady?

Yes. My profile says aka 1stcenturylady. I had computer problems and had to buy a whole new membership.

CharismaticLady · Jun 18, 2019

Grip Docility said:
No... it has Him “God winking”.

He asks why they call Him Good and says only God is Good.

God is Saying only God is Good.

I can buy that.

LoveGodsWord · Jun 18, 2019

CharismaticLady said:
Yes. My profile says aka 1stcenturylady. I had computer problems and had to buy a whole new membership.

Ok thanks for being honest. Nice to see you. God's Spirit told me.

Does willful sin separate the elect from God?

Does willful sin separate those once saved from God.

No, obedience is "works" and we are not saved by works.

Yes, willful sin must be repented from in order to stay saved.

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