Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

parousia70 said:

“And they shall dwell safely, ALL OF THEM”?

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The Israel that currently occupies a small part of the holy Land, is not the Israel that is prophesied to be there. All the usurpers and the evil neighbors will be gone and the Lord will protect His faithful people. Jeremiah 12:14, Joel 2:18-29, + Note in Joel 2:30-31 the description of the forthcoming Day of the Lord's fiery wrath, that will clear and cleanse the holy Land for His people.
Very soon now; in our perception of time!

keras said:

Very soon now; in our perception of time!

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I'll grab the popcorn!
If I hold a Jiffypop pan directly at the CME I bet it'll pop up perfectly!

nolidad said:

Matthew 24:15-16 King James Version (KJV)
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

this has yet to happen!

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Messiah, and history, disagree.

parousia70 said:

I'll grab the popcorn!
If I hold a Jiffypop pan directly at the CME I bet it'll pop up perfectly!

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As the temperature of the many prophesied fiery Day of the Lord's wrath will be 7 times the ambient temp, expect to have your brains boiled as well. Isaiah 30:26a. Malachi 4:1, 2 Peter 3:7

It is rather peculiar that many scientists, incl NASA, know of the likelihood of this prophesied event, but Bible students just can't see it. The reason for this is given to us in Isaiah 29:9-12, Matthew 11:25, 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12

jgr said:

Messiah, and history, disagree.

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Well your man Woodrow you quote is great at personal eisegesis but fails at Biblical exegesis! He is a full fledged allegorical preterist here!

The Olivet Discourse, the disciples asked Jesus 3 specific Questions:

1. When will the temple be destroyed
2. What is the sign of your coming (or return)
3. What is the sign that the end of the age has begun!

Jesus knew the abomination was a person! Jesus said He would stand in the Holy Place- that is a specific place in the temple! Paul confirmed it is a person as well:

2 Thessalonians 2:3-5 King James Version (KJV)
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?

No world ruler has of yet entered the holy place and declared themself God. IN Jesus and Pauls day it would have been Cesar and no Cesar ever entered the temple and did that! Ergo it is still a future event.

jgr said:

Messiah, and history, disagree.

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I have to write another response! If I ever play twister-I want Ralph Woodrow on my team!!! They way he twists reason and Scripture is breathtaking.

No Jew, especially Jesus would ever think that "when you see the abomination, who makes desolate stasnding in the holy place" simply referred to Jerusalem. Any Jew who had an IQ above 1 knew that yes Jerusalem was THE holy city, but not the HOLY PLACE! There is only one piece of geography that a Jew would ever call "THE HOLY PLACE" that is the room right before the holy of holies! Woodrow has been misled by philosophy and not sound exegesis of the word.

parousia70 said:

If the Holy, Inspired, INFALLIBLE 1st century apostles were WRONG about it, (as you insist they were), how can you be so sure that fallible 21st century internet guys such as yourself are Right?

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Well we cannot say for sure how strong they thought the end of-the age and the return of Jesus would happen in their lifetime, but their writings do give a strong flavor they thought it could be.

But in the Olivet Discourse and the Book of Ezekiel God inspired clear specific signs to tell His children we were living in the last days!

parousia70 said:

Rather, Holy Scripture teaches that the world will exist forever (Ecc 1:4; Ps 78:69; 89:36-37; 104:5; 148:4-6; Eph 3:21) and that human generations are perpetual (Ps 145:13; Dan 4:3,34; Dan 7:14,18,27; Lk 1:33)

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Well your error is the same as many translators errors! The OT& word for forever is "owlam" which has many meaning. Eternal is definitely one, but so aren't indefinite. a long period an undefined period. Context determines meaning.

Luke uses aiaon which also means forever or an age- context determines meaning.

But how long will Jesus reign as King?

1 Corinthians 15:22-28 King James Version (KJV)
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.

27 For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him.

28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

The Bible declares Jesus reigns UNTIL death is destroyeds (in the lake of fire) then He gives everything back to Our Father!

How long does this earth last?

2 Peter 3:10
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
2 Peter 3:12
Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with ferventheat?

Revelation 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.

parousia70 said:

Who are the Priests with the demonstrable Levitical lineage?

How did they demonstrate that lineage?

Do they (or you) know where the Urim and Thummim are (Ezra 2:63)??
They are biblically necessary to discern priestly genealogy of purported Jews who lost their familial records after being scattered (which would be every and any purported Jew alive today)

So, someone who already has proven priestly genealogy (which would be no one today) needs to find them and consult with them before any Temple rituals can take place, according to the Law...

Now, since Modern Jews don't follow the Law (which Biblically makes them uncircumcised heathen in Gods eyes according to scripture) they probably don't much care.

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YOu are thinking form Mans perspective not Gods. Let me remind you of what Jesus said:

Matthew 19:26
But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.

As God did not give the details of how He will work this out- I leave it to HIm. He is for more capable thian our puny human efforts anyway!

nolidad said:

Well your man Woodrow you quote is great at personal eisegesis but fails at Biblical exegesis! He is a full fledged allegorical preterist here!

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There was nothing allegorical about what occurred in 70 AD. It was the epitome of literal, raw, divine judgment, punishment, and destruction.

Dispensationalists who claim to believe Scripture literally cannot escape the literality of Matthew 24. Its events were described literally by Christ, and confirmed literally by Josephus and other literal eyewitness historians.

You should acquaint yourself with their testimonies.

nolidad said:

Jesus knew the abomination was a person!

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Scripture for that?

I can save you some time.

Matthew 24:15:

946 [e]
bdelygma
βδέλυγμα
abomination
N-ANS

◄ 946. bdelugma ►
Strong's Concordance
bdelugma: a detestable thing
Original Word: βδέλυγμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: bdelugma
Phonetic Spelling: (bdel'-oog-mah)
Definition: a detestable thing
Usage: an abominable thing, an accursed thing.

Consistent with Jesus' description.

2 Thessalonians 2 is unrelated to Matthew 24:

• The words "abomination" and/or "desolation" do not appear in 2 Thess. 2.
• The abomination of desolation in Matthew 24 stands in the holy place.
• The man of sin in 2 Thess. 2 sits in the temple.
• The man of sin in 2 Thess. 2 claims to be God; the abomination of desolation in Matthew 24 does not.

jgr said:

There was nothing allegorical about what occurred in 70 AD. It was the epitome of literal, raw, divine judgment, punishment, and destruction.

Dispensationalists who claim to believe Scripture literally cannot escape the literality of Matthew 24. Its events were described literally by Christ, and confirmed literally by Josephus and other literal eyewitness historians.

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70 Ad was the literal fulfillment of the Luke 21 portion of the Olivet discourse.

Luke 21:20
And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh

But if you want to say MAtthew 24 was fulfilled in 70 AD. Thjen answer these things please as they are historic !

Just by way of reminder, here are the three questions the disciples asked:

3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

Matthew 24:
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.

A) When did the abomination stand in the holy place? Not eh holy city but the holy place (within the inner sanctuary of the Temple)

B) Are you declaring that there has not been greater tribulation since the 4 year siege of Jerusalem any where ion the world in the last nearly 2,000 years?

Jews did not flee Judea in 66-70 AD.

YOU need to be more careful. The abomination of Desolation is a specific person who will do a specific thing! It is not just a generic detestable thing Paul also warned of it in 2 Thess. so it had not happened yet in His day! He under the inspiration called it a person- why do you not also?

jgr said:

Dispensationalists who claim to believe Scripture literally cannot escape the literality of Matthew 24. Its events were described literally by Christ, and confirmed literally by Josephus and other literal eyewitness historians.

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Josephus did not say that the Roman destruction of teh city and the temple fulfilled Matt. 24! He was not even a believer!

But He did witness teh punishment for Isrtael committing teh unpardonable sin in MAtt. 12 and the answer of teh first of the three questions the disciple asked Jesus- when will the temple be destroyed.

that was answered in Luke 21.

If you place Luke 21 and MAtt. 24 side by side- you will see that passages that appear similar are in fact speaking of different times.

YOu do not like Paul and Jesus being put together about the abominable one who makes desolate (the more literal translation-yes a person can be abominable) then simply show between 66-70 AD one who enbtered into the holy place (the inner temple) and you have a case! Jesus said it would be so well known that word gets out so that all of Judea would know to flee!

Here are the three passages from Daniel Jesus told us to pay attention to:

Daniel 9:27
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Daniel 11:31
And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
In Context | Full Chapter | Other Translations
Daniel 12:11
And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.


So:

1`. Who made a 7 year treaty with Israel between 66-70 AD and in the middle fo it broke it?

2. What he makes desolate is where the sacrifice and oblation are offered when did that happen between 66-70 AD

3. When did Roma set up an abomination in the temple after they caused teh sacrifice to cease for 1,290 days?

You will not unless you allegorize scriptures.

(Much) More evidence.

nolidad said:

If you place Luke 21 and MAtt. 24 side by side- you will see that passages that appear similar are in fact speaking of different times.

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They are parallel accounts of the same events at the same times.

Matthew: "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you, For many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many" (24:4,5).
Luke: "And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived; for many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and the time draweth near; go ye not therefore after them" (21:8).

Matthew: "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom" (24:6,7).
Luke: "But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified; for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by [immediately]. Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom (21:9,10).

Matthew: "And there shall be famines and pestilences, and earthquakes in divers places, all these are the beginning of sorrows (24:7,8).
Luke: "And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines and pestilences, and fearful sights" (21:11).

Matthew: "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.., And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold" (24:9-12).
Luke: "They shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony...I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist...and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (21:12-17).

Matthew: "Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains" (24:16)
Luke: "Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto." (21:21)

jgr said:

They are parallel accounts of the same events at the same times.

Matthew: "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you, For many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many" (24:4,5).
Luke: "And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived; for many shall come in my name saying, I am Christ, and the time draweth near; go ye not therefore after them" (21:8).

Matthew: "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars. See that ye be not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom" (24:6,7).
Luke: "But when ye shall hear of wars and commotions, be not terrified; for these things must first come to pass; but the end is not by and by [immediately]. Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom (21:9,10).

Matthew: "And there shall be famines and pestilences, and earthquakes in divers places, all these are the beginning of sorrows (24:7,8).
Luke: "And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines and pestilences, and fearful sights" (21:11).

Matthew: "Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.., And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold" (24:9-12).
Luke: "They shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake. And it shall turn to you for a testimony...I will give you a mouth and wisdom which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist...and some of you shall they cause to be put to death. And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake" (21:12-17).

Matthew: "Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains" (24:16)
Luke: "Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto." (21:21)

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Now post teh ones that appear similar but are not. I am not saying there are not identical passages, but there are passages that seem similar but are speaking of different times.

Matt.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.


LUKE:
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matt. :
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another


LUKE:
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death

Some evnts Jesus spoke are events leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem which is the judgment for Israel rejecting the Messiah. Othiers are for the last days before Jesus physically returns.

jgr said:

(Much) More evidence.

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Well some glaring errors in his escschatology!

1. By 70AD the gospel had not even gone through the Roman Empire- never mind the world.
2. Who made a covenant for 7 years with Israel between 30-70AD and broke it in the middle?
3. Who is the one who came on the wings of abomination to maker desolate - who stood in the holy place?
4. Simon was a Samaritan! No self respecting Jew would even look at Him as a Messiah!
5. Nation against nation and kingdom against kingdom refers to a world war for it is the world in question by the disciples! Yes Rome fought many small wars- but if you study the Jewish meaning of the phrase nation...kingdom.... Rome never had that!
6. "
21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened." Do you really think that happened between 66-70 AD? Not even close!

7. As you insist that MAtt. 24 is the roman siege then tell us when this happened:
Matt. 24:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:

30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Jesus said IMMEDIATELY AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS! So according to your eisegesis these are historic events as well, So when did they happen?

See if a Word in advance is prophesy it has to be fulfilled 100% not almost or like ivory soap 99 44/100% fulfilled

LittleLambofJesus said:

Typical futurist zionist dispensationalist beliefs.........

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What a ridiculous statement! Apart from being very rude and quite untrue.

It seems that some people are so worried about what could happen during their lifetime, they are like snails; they curl up inside their shells and deny the foot that's about to crush them.
But what they fail to see, is for those Christians who stand strong in their faith during all that is so clearly prophesied to happen before Jesus Returns, they will be protected and saved by the Lord.

Preterism is a total crock, a deception, as the plainly stated events in Revelation and throughout the Bible pertaining to the last days, simply have not happened yet. They will, or what is our Bible? Just a fairy tale?

LittleLambofJesus said:

Typical futurist zionist dispensationalist beliefs.........
Great post jgr and I agree.

Have you and/or other members looked at this thread I created sometime back?
I will be happy to go over each of the posts if someone wants to post on it.

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew 24:1
And Jesus going out of the Temple<2411>
Mark 13:1
And of His going out<1607> of the Temple<2411>
Luke 21:5
and of some saying concerning the Temple<2411>
==================================================
I put a link to each verses of Matthew 24 below, in case one wants to look up individual verses.
I include the verses of Mark 13 and Luke 21/Luke 17 if they are there
Any input from other members is welcome.
============================

I have heard members on here say that Matthew 24 and Luke 21 are speaking of different timing/events.
Some Partial Preterists view the first half of the Olivet Discourse as 70ad and the rest 2000 yrs in the future.

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Thanks LLoJ; do you have the set of verses where Paul declares that the gospel had already reached the whole world in his day?

nolidad said:

Now post teh ones that appear similar but are not. I am not saying there are not identical passages, but there are passages that seem similar but are speaking of different times.

Matt.
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

16 Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:

17 Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:

18 Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.


LUKE:
20 And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

21 Then let them which are in Judaea flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.

23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.

19 And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days!

20 But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:

21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

Matt. :
9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

10 And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another


LUKE:
12 But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute you, delivering you up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.

13 And it shall turn to you for a testimony.

14 Settle it therefore in your hearts, not to meditate before what ye shall answer:

15 For I will give you a mouth and wisdom, which all your adversaries shall not be able to gainsay nor resist.

16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death

Some evnts Jesus spoke are events leading up to and including the destruction of Jerusalem which is the judgment for Israel rejecting the Messiah. Othiers are for the last days before Jesus physically returns.

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The parallels that I posted relate to events leading up to 70 AD. I concur that later in the chapters are described events associated with the Second Coming.