Wheaton scholars pen textbook bridging the Bible to ‘mainline science’

PloverWing

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I'll address some of the non-science issues here in a second post. I have been troubled as I've watched Wheaton over the last couple of decades dealing with the issues that Mathetes66 raised: LGBT issues and the awful episode with Dr. Hawkins. LGBT issues can't really be discussed on CF, though if you google "OneWheaton", you'll see a bit of the diversity that can be found among Wheaton's alumni.

I watched the developing news about Dr. Hawkins with much pain. She clashed with a member of the administration who, in my judgment, acted badly and has shown insufficient remorse. I spent months thinking "Is this the school I was so proud of? What are they doing?" I still have lingering bad feelings. But I was also reminded that a school is not its administration; rather, it is chiefly its students and faculty, and many of those students and faculty supported Dr. Hawkins in her beliefs that our Muslim brothers and sisters are worthy of our protection, that the three Abrahamic faiths are monotheistic, and that (good heavens!) Christianity is not a polytheistic religion that believes that there are multiple gods to worship.
 
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Mathetes66

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Christian beliefs ARE the same as verifiable evidence! The Scriptures teach this.

Luke 1:1-4 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled a among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were EYEWITNESSES & servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have CAREFULLY INVESTIGATED EVERYTHING from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the CERTAINTY of the things you have been taught.

Acts 1:1-3 The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do & teach, until the day when He was taken up to heaven, after He had by the Holy Spirit given orders to the apostles whom He had chosen. 3To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by MANY CONVINCING PROOFS, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Mark 16:14 Later as they were eating, Jesus appeared to the eleven & rebuked them for their unbelief & hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.

Hebrews 11:1-3 Faith assures us of things we expect & convinces us of the existing evidence of things we cannot see. This is why the ancients were commended. By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was MADE made out of things that are visible.

Rom 4:17 As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the presence of God, in whom he believed, the God who gives life to the dead & calls into being what does not yet exist.

Heb 11:7,27 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things NOT SEEN AS YET, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world & became heir of the righteousness which is by faith

Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great a salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord & was CONFIRMED TO US BY THEM THAT HEARD HIM.

Although archaeological finds are not inspired by God, they are HISTORICAL verifiable evidences that support what the Bible accurately says.

Does Archaeology Support the Bible?

Archaeology and the Historical Reliability of the New Testament

Charlotte Allen observes that “Archaeology, which was then a young science, was by & large ignored by the academic biblical scholars of the [19th] century. For the great German exegetes of the era … a voyage to Palestine was beside the point, as the life of the historical Jesus was for them solely a matter of interpreting texts.”[2] Today, scholars know that archaeological data can be a valuable aid to interpreting texts, as well as providing independent adjudication of a text’s historical veracity.

Allen affirms that archaeological excavations in the Holy Land have “tended to support the historical value of the Gospels, at least as sources of information about the conditions of their times.”[3] As Nelson Glueck states, on the one hand “It may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever contraverted a biblical reference”, whereas on the other “Scores of archaeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or exact detail historical statements in the Bible.”[4]

The famous archaeologist William F. Albright observes:

The excessive scepticism shown toward the Bible by important historical schools of the eighteenth-and-nineteenth centuries, certain phases of which still appear periodically, has been progressively discredited. Discovery after discovery has established the accuracy of innumerable details & has brought increased recognition to the value of the Bible as a source of history.[5]

Likewise, Joseph Free confirms: “Archaeology has confirmed countless passages which had been rejected by critics as unhistorical or contrary to known facts.”[6]

[1] Millar Burrows, What Mean These Stones? (New York: Meridian Books, 1956), p.1.

[2] Charlotte Allen, The Human Christ: The Search for the Historical Jesus (Oxford: Lion, 1998), p.187.

[3] Ibid, p.286.

[4] Nelson Glueck, Rivers in the Desert: A History of the Negev (New York: Farrar, Strauss & Cudahy, 1959), p.31.

[5] William F. Albright, The Archaeology of Palestine, pp.127-128, quoted by Josh McDowell, The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict (Nashvile: Thomas Nelson, 1999), p.61.

[6] Joseph Free, Archaeology and Bible History (Scripture Press, 1969), p.1.

2 Pet 3:4-6 Where is the promise of His coming?” they will ask. “Ever since our fathers fell asleep, everything continues as it has from the beginning of creation.” 5But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed & the earth was formed out of water & by water, through which THE WORLD AT THAT TIME perished in the flood.

2 Pet 3:10-13 But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be destroyed by fire & the earth & its works will be laid bare.

11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to conduct yourselves in holiness & godliness as you anticipate & hasten the coming of the day of God, when the heavens will be destroyed by fire & the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with God’s promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven & a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Those who doubted the global flood was true, which God gave as verifiable evidence, will doubt this present earth will also be destroyed, with heat this time, not water. The Bible verifies only 8 people survived the global flood. Jesus states on this next, the greatest tribulation on earth that has ever been seen, that if that time hadn't been shortened, not one human being would survive this one as well. Do we believe what Jesus said IS VERIFIABLY TRUE, even though we haven't seen it happen as yet?

Matt 24:21,22 For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now & never to be seen again. In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, not a single person will survive. But it will be shortened for the sake of God’s chosen ones.

What will happen then?

Rev 16:18ff And there were flashes of lightning & rumblings & peals of thunder, & a great earthquake the likes of which had not occurred since men were upon the earth—so mighty was the great quake. The great city was split into three parts & the cities of the nations collapsed...And every island disappeared & all the mountains were leveled.

Rev 8 continues with meteor showers & asteroids hitting the earth. Scientists are now predicting with verifying evidence that we can easily find much of planet earth & life on it being destroyed by such things & earthquakes & volcanic activity that will do the same! Global warming is true. Things are heating up more & more. Even the article below says that if the giant volcano of Yellowstone explodes, it could effectively devastate the world population & conceiveably destroy 5 billion people.

What if God did that with volcanoes all over the world at the same time?


Yellowstone volcano SHOCK: Eruption 'can kill 5 BILLION' in fiery fallout, warns geologist

One should be ready for Jesus' return & what is going to happen to the earth as we know it. This is not myth, fairy tales, but the truth of God's revelation in the Scriptures. Even atheistic scientists are greatly concerned with what is coming upon this earth.

Repent and believe the gospel of the coming kingdom of God before it is too late.

Matt 11:20 Then Jesus began to denounce the towns where he had done so many of His miracles, because they hadn’t repented of their sins and turned to God.
 
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~Zao~

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That's why I said that there are theological implications. Please remember that I don't think Paul was inerrant. He probably believed that there was an actual pair of humans. But his argument still works if there aren't. I use fictional characters as examples all the time when I'm teaching Sunday School. They give us a set of shared stories we can use to help talk about and understand things.

In Rom 5, he says Adam was a type of Christ. In 1 Cor 15, as all die in Adam, all will live in Christ. In both cases he's speaking of Adam as as an example to illuminate Christ. He does not say that we inherit Adam's sin. It's hard to see how we could inherit sin from a non-existent person, although we could regard Adam as symbolic even then. But he doesn't say that. He says that sin spread to all because all sinned.

And even if it did cause problem with Paul, given a choice between biologists and Paul on human origins, I'm going to take biologists. We'll accommodate our understanding of theology to what we know.

I noted above that accepting mainstream science, and particularly mainstream science, archaeology and history, really is only consistent with a model where the Bible is a human witness to God's work, but is not God's actual words.
Theological implications are not unusually found when more than one type of interpretation methods are employed.
 
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hedrick

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The famous archaeologist William F. Albright observes:
I grew up with "The Bible as History." I would no longer recommend it.

To quote from Wikipedia:

"In the years since his death, Albright's methods and conclusions have been increasingly questioned. William Dever claims that "[Albright's] central theses have all been overturned, partly by further advances in Biblical criticism, but mostly by the continuing archaeological research of younger Americans and Israelis to whom he himself gave encouragement and momentum ... The irony is that, in the long run, it will have been the newer 'secular' archaeology that contributed the most to Biblical studies, not 'Biblical archaeology.'"[15]

"Biblical scholar Thomas L. Thompson contends that the methods of "biblical archaeology" have also become outmoded: "[Wright and Albright's] historical interpretation can make no claim to be objective, proceeding as it does from a methodology which distorts its data by selectivity which is hardly representative, which ignores the enormous lack of data for the history of the early second millennium, and which wilfully establishes hypotheses on the basis of unexamined biblical texts, to be proven by such (for this period) meaningless mathematical criteria as the 'balance of probability' ..."[16]"
 
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hedrick

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The NT is fairly near the events. Luke probably had access to witnesses, or at least people separated by only one generation. This has little similarity to the OT before the time of the kings. There are issues even with Luke, but they are minor compared with the OT problems. This doesn't apply to the 2 Peter quote. Aside from questions about 2 Peter itself, the author wouldn't have had any more knowledge about prehistory than the OT authors.
 
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Mathetes66

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You offered NO refuting evidence concerning Albright's claims. Only claims generally. Evidence speaks louder than words. I can supply evidence. And by the way, the OT prophets & those spoken about in the OT, like David, Elijah, Elisha, Daniel were EYEWITNESSES to the actual empires in the old world & were part of them, so the OT is not easily dismissed, just as you seem to indicate those eyewitnesses in the NT were genuine.

Nebuchadnezzar found out there was indeed one true living & Creator God who humbled him & he testified as an eyewitness to the true God & the facts found in Scripture.

I barely skimmed the archaeological evidence verifying the Bible & its accuracy. I can go on page after page of these evidences but 'one convinced against their will is of the same opinion still.' I will save that for those who are truly interested.
 
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Tone

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read the Bible in light of mainstream understandings of science

So, read the Holy Bible...in light (is it really light?)...of the understandings of, largely unbelieving, people who use subjective methods to study a nature subject to corruption (decay)...?
 
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Tone

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Christian beliefs ARE the same as verifiable evidence! The Scriptures teach this.

Exactly! It's all a matter of what measure you are going to use to grasp the world around you...Scripture...or evolution...One is much older, much more proved, much more objective, and much more reliable...I will leave it up to the reader to decide which is the solid rock...and which is the sinking sand.
 
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Tone

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Revelation 21
"1Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and earth had passed away, and the sea was no more."

In the new heaven and the new earth...will it be according to what Scripture has to say...or according to what Darwin had to say? So why would you "read the Bible in light of mainstream understandings of science"...this so called knowledge will fade away along with all other corruption.

*But, the Word of the Lord will abide forever.
 
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throughfiierytrial

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Wheaton College (a conservative evangelical college) professors have penned what is believed to be the first college-level textbook outlining mainstream scientific theories on origins of life and how they fit within a biblical framework, something they say has been lacking in Christian higher education for decades.

“God created nature, He also gave Scripture...So theology is really designed to look at the data of Scripture, right? And science is designed to listen to the data of nature. Well, nature and scriptures shouldn't conflict because they’re both from God.”

Wheaton scholars pen first 'Origins' college textbook bridging the Bible to ‘mainline science’
Be interested to know if the professor finds that mainstream scientific theories fit well with the teachings of Scripture...if he concludes they do he does Christianity a huge disservice.
 
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GOD Shines Forth!

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. Ok I stopped reading when they sorta yelled at that lady for saying Muslims and Christians worship the same God . We do worship the same God Muslims belong to are one of the 3 abrahamic faiths . Judaism Islam and Christianity,. Anyone who doesn’t know that is simply ignorant . And a bible college should know this

Islam rejects Jesus Christ as God's Son. Therefore they do NOT have God. So no, they do not worship the one true and Living God (as Christians do) but a counterfeit.
 
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PloverWing

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Islam rejects Jesus Christ as God's Son. Therefore they do NOT have God. So no, they do not worship the one true and Living God (as Christians do) but a counterfeit.
When you say that, do you mean a) that Muslims worship an illusion, an idea of a Being who does not actually exist, or b) that Muslims worship a Divine Being who exists and is different from the Triune God of Christianity, or c) that Muslims worship God the Father only, without having the wisdom to see that God the Father is part of a Trinity?
 
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Brightmoon

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Islam rejects Jesus Christ as God's Son. Therefore they do NOT have God. So no, they do not worship the one true and Living God (as Christians do) but a counterfeit.
I took a college class on Islamic history because I was kinda tired of American history back in the 70s . That class has been a godsend as I didn’t fall for the 9/11 islamophobia hype and i lived in NYC when it happened. I also learned something I didn’t know . FYI they worship the same God as Christians and Jews
 
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GOD Shines Forth!

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When you say that, do you mean a) that Muslims worship an illusion, an idea of a Being who does not actually exist, or b) that Muslims worship a Divine Being who exists and is different from the Triune God of Christianity, or c) that Muslims worship God the Father only, without having the wisdom to see that God the Father is part of a Trinity?

a).

But I can’t know any individual Muslim's heart.
 
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GOD Shines Forth!

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I took a college class on Islamic history because I was kinda tired of American history back in the 70s . That class has been a godsend as I didn’t fall for the 9/11 islamophobia hype and i lived in NYC when it happened. I also learned something I didn’t know . FYI they worship the same God as Christians and Jews

I don’t buy that at all, per Scripture. College courses mean less than zero to me, no authority.
 
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Brightmoon

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I don’t buy that at all, per Scripture. College courses mean less than zero to me, no authority.
So you're basing your opinion of another religion on your ignorance about it . Sorry but that is a stupid way to judge anything
 
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GOD Shines Forth!

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So you're basing your opinion of another religion on your ignorance about it . Sorry but that is a stupid way to judge anything

I never said I haven’t read about Islam. I have. They do not believe God has a Son. Scripture says they are LYING. That’s what I said.
 
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Brightmoon

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I never said I haven’t read about Islam. I have. They do not believe God has a Son. Scripture says they are LYING. That’s what I said.
. You know I was about 11 when I read Jonathan Swift’s gullivers travels for the first time. On one of his voyages he bumped into a society who fought horrible and destructive wars over which end of a boiled egg to open first. The big end or the little end . Religious people who quibble over beliefs remind me of that book every time and I find it difficult to take them seriously as thinkers
 
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Christian beliefs ARE the same as verifiable evidence! The Scriptures teach this.

Luke 1:1-4 Many have undertaken to draw up an account of the things that have been fulfilled a among us, just as they were handed down to us by those who from the first were EYEWITNESSES & servants of the word. With this in mind, since I myself have CAREFULLY INVESTIGATED EVERYTHING from the beginning, I too decided to write an orderly account for you, most excellent Theophilus, so that you may know the CERTAINTY of the things you have been taught.

Acts 1:1-3 The first account I composed, Theophilus, about all that Jesus began to do & teach, until the day when He was taken up to heaven, after He had by the Holy Spirit given orders to the apostles whom He had chosen. 3To these He also presented Himself alive after His suffering, by MANY CONVINCING PROOFS, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking of the things concerning the kingdom of God.

Mark 16:14 Later as they were eating, Jesus appeared to the eleven & rebuked them for their unbelief & hardness of heart, because they did not believe those who had seen Him after He had risen.

Hebrews 11:1-3 Faith assures us of things we expect & convinces us of the existing evidence of things we cannot see. This is why the ancients were commended. By faith we understand that the entire universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was MADE made out of things that are visible.

Rom 4:17 As it is written: "I have made you a father of many nations." He is our father in the presence of God, in whom he believed, the God who gives life to the dead & calls into being what does not yet exist.

Heb 11:7,27 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things NOT SEEN AS YET, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world & became heir of the righteousness which is by faith

Heb 2:3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great a salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord & was CONFIRMED TO US BY THEM THAT HEARD HIM.

Although archaeological finds are not inspired by God, they are HISTORICAL verifiable evidences that support what the Bible accurately says.

Does Archaeology Support the Bible?

Archaeology and the Historical Reliability of the New Testament

Charlotte Allen observes that “Archaeology, which was then a young science, was by & large ignored by the academic biblical scholars of the [19th] century. For the great German exegetes of the era … a voyage to Palestine was beside the point, as the life of the historical Jesus was for them solely a matter of interpreting texts.”[2] Today, scholars know that archaeological data can be a valuable aid to interpreting texts, as well as providing independent adjudication of a text’s historical veracity.

Allen affirms that archaeological excavations in the Holy Land have “tended to support the historical value of the Gospels, at least as sources of information about the conditions of their times.”[3] As Nelson Glueck states, on the one hand “It may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever contraverted a biblical reference”, whereas on the other “Scores of archaeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or exact detail historical statements in the Bible.”[4]

The famous archaeologist William F. Albright observes:

The excessive scepticism shown toward the Bible by important historical schools of the eighteenth-and-nineteenth centuries, certain phases of which still appear periodically, has been progressively discredited. Discovery after discovery has established the accuracy of innumerable details & has brought increased recognition to the value of the Bible as a source of history.[5]

Likewise, Joseph Free confirms: “Archaeology has confirmed countless passages which had been rejected by critics as unhistorical or contrary to known facts.”[6]

[1] Millar Burrows, What Mean These Stones? (New York: Meridian Books, 1956), p.1.

[2] Charlotte Allen, The Human Christ: The Search for the Historical Jesus (Oxford: Lion, 1998), p.187.

[3] Ibid, p.286.

[4] Nelson Glueck, Rivers in the Desert: A History of the Negev (New York: Farrar, Strauss & Cudahy, 1959), p.31.

[5] William F. Albright, The Archaeology of Palestine, pp.127-128, quoted by Josh McDowell, The New Evidence That Demands A Verdict (Nashvile: Thomas Nelson, 1999), p.61.

[6] Joseph Free, Archaeology and Bible History (Scripture Press, 1969), p.1.

2 Pet 3:4-6 Where is the promise of His coming?” they will ask. “Ever since our fathers fell asleep, everything continues as it has from the beginning of creation.” 5But they deliberately overlook the fact that long ago by God’s word the heavens existed & the earth was formed out of water & by water, through which THE WORLD AT THAT TIME perished in the flood.

2 Pet 3:10-13 But the Day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar, the elements will be destroyed by fire & the earth & its works will be laid bare.

11Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to conduct yourselves in holiness & godliness as you anticipate & hasten the coming of the day of God, when the heavens will be destroyed by fire & the elements will melt in the heat. But in keeping with God’s promise, we are looking forward to a new heaven & a new earth, where righteousness dwells.

Those who doubted the global flood was true, which God gave as verifiable evidence, will doubt this present earth will also be destroyed, with heat this time, not water. The Bible verifies only 8 people survived the global flood. Jesus states on this next, the greatest tribulation on earth that has ever been seen, that if that time hadn't been shortened, not one human being would survive this one as well. Do we believe what Jesus said IS VERIFIABLY TRUE, even though we haven't seen it happen as yet?

Matt 24:21,22 For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now & never to be seen again. In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, not a single person will survive. But it will be shortened for the sake of God’s chosen ones.

What will happen then?

Rev 16:18ff And there were flashes of lightning & rumblings & peals of thunder, & a great earthquake the likes of which had not occurred since men were upon the earth—so mighty was the great quake. The great city was split into three parts & the cities of the nations collapsed...And every island disappeared & all the mountains were leveled.

Rev 8 continues with meteor showers & asteroids hitting the earth. Scientists are now predicting with verifying evidence that we can easily find much of planet earth & life on it being destroyed by such things & earthquakes & volcanic activity that will do the same! Global warming is true. Things are heating up more & more. Even the article below says that if the giant volcano of Yellowstone explodes, it could effectively devastate the world population & conceiveably destroy 5 billion people.

What if God did that with volcanoes all over the world at the same time?


Yellowstone volcano SHOCK: Eruption 'can kill 5 BILLION' in fiery fallout, warns geologist

One should be ready for Jesus' return & what is going to happen to the earth as we know it. This is not myth, fairy tales, but the truth of God's revelation in the Scriptures. Even atheistic scientists are greatly concerned with what is coming upon this earth.

Repent and believe the gospel of the coming kingdom of God before it is too late.

Matt 11:20 Then Jesus began to denounce the towns where he had done so many of His miracles, because they hadn’t repented of their sins and turned to God.
unless they’re accurate descriptions of nature , religious beliefs are opinions

Is Scripture in a state of corruption like nature?
The Bible has been edited a lot, it’s not pristine. Corrupted is a decent description of what was done to the Bible. Nature is nature and humans are damaging it and natural phenomena is responding to that damage. Nature is not corrupt that’s just what it does and how it’s supposed to act.
YOu can suggest anything you wish.

But is this summary wrong?

Darwin's Theory Of Evolution
I think not as it is written by evolutionsts.

This is my favorite part of teh whole treatise:

Darwin's Theory of Evolution - A Theory In Crisis
Darwin's Theory of Evolution is a theory in crisis in light of the tremendous advances we've made in molecular biology, biochemistry and genetics over the past fifty years. We now know that there are in fact tens of thousands of irreducibly complex systems on the cellular level. Specified complexity pervades the microscopic biological world. Molecular biologist Michael Denton wrote, "Although the tiniest bacterial cells are incredibly small, weighing less than 10-12 grams, each is in effect a veritable micro-miniaturized factory containing thousands of exquisitely designed pieces of intricate molecular machinery, made up altogether of one hundred thousand million atoms, far more complicated than any machinery built by man and absolutely without parallel in the non-living world.
. TL;DR. Michael Denton’s book is full of errors and no one in the science community took it seriously when it was written over a decade ago and certainly don’t take it seriously now
 
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