Why are so many still in the elementary principles of Christ

hislegacy

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Think about the history of this forum. 90% or more is speaking directly to what the writer of Hebrews is saying we should leave.
 

OldWiseGuy

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It seems that Paul is concerned that some have stalled in their spiritual growth and are in danger of leaving the faith. He does add a caveat, that 'strong meat' is for those of 'full age'. From a personal point of view I don't think many are ready for this responsibility. It's the age we live in I believe. People mature much later than in the past.
 
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View attachment 258311

Think about the history of this forum. 90% or more is speaking directly to what the writer of Hebrews is saying we should leave.


That is because we neglect to diligently study the scriptures through which the Gospel of Christ is given. But it gets worse. There are an increasing number of people who claim Christ yet do not adhere to even the basics of Christianity.

Have you ever viewed the Barna statistics regarding biblical literacy within the Church? The findings are very dismal.

Furthermore, the scriptures are not being taught in their full counsel by many Pastors and Church leaders nor do they admonish they whom they are teaching to diligently read and study the scriptures. They are not prepared to give answer for the faith profess to be within them (1. Pet. 3:15) neither do they earnestly contend for the faith (Jude 3) or oppose those the lies that blind people to the truth of the Gospel nor do they confront the false doctrines and heresies that lead the saints astray , blaspheme God, and overthrow faith.

Where the truth of God does not abide, falsehood, lies, and heresies abound.
 
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Gideons300

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I'm other words:

Stop arguing about the Gospel and start living it.

Seems to fit forums nicely.
Agreed wholeheartedly. Now, unfortunately, it leaves us with another roadblock. How to live it.

We hear much talk in the New Testament about the importance of holiness, of keeping our body under, of running our race as if there is but one prize.

Do we hear it in our churches today? With few rare exceptions, no. And why do we not hear it? Simply because no one knows the HOW of holiness other than legalistic effort, which is totally unappealing and doesn't work anyway. LOL.

But we are about to discover what has long been lost to the church, ever since the last drops of the early rain fell in the first century..... the way to take our old nature out of the equation.

And when we do, and awake to HOW to walk in singleness of eye, as living sacrifices, the world will again see His bride in resplendent beauty, ready to meet her husband.

When will it happen? When we cannot live.... or love..... without it. Huge changes are coming. Buckle your spiritual seatbelts! The first drops of the latter rain are falling even now.

Blessings,

Gideon
 
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topher694

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Agreed wholeheartedly. Now, unfortunately, it leaves us with another roadblock. How to live it.

We hear much talk in the New Testament about the importance of holiness, of keeping our body under, of running our race as if there is but one prize.

Do we hear it in our churches today? With few rare exceptions, no. And why do we not hear it? Simply because no one knows the HOW of holiness other than legalistic effort, which is totally unappealing and doesn't work anyway. LOL.

But we are about to discover what has long been lost to the church, ever since the last drops of the early rain fell in the first century..... the way to take our old nature out of the equation.

And when we do, and awake to HOW to walk in singleness of eye, as living sacrifices, the world will again see His bride in resplendent beauty, ready to meet her husband.

When will it happen? When we cannot live.... or love..... without it. Huge changes are coming. Buckle your spiritual seatbelts! The first drops of the latter rain are falling even now.

Blessings,

Gideon
Well I preached on this very thing this weekend. I don't believe that the issue is that it is rare for churches to talk about noneagalistic holiness, there are plenty that do (granted not enough) . What IS rare is for an "explosive growth" church to do so.

Then the question becomes, when it is taught, are people willing to put it into practice in their own lives.
 
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Gideons300

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Well I preached on this very thing this weekend. I don't believe that the issue is that it is rare for churches to talk about noneagalistic holiness, there are plenty that do (granted not enough) . What IS rare is for an "explosive growth" church to do so.

Then the question becomes, when it is taught, are people willing to put it into practice in their own lives.
For someone who lived as the poster boy for Romans 7 for 38 years, being willing to walk in holiness (which I was) is not the same as being able (which I most definitely was not, lol).

When we take what God asks of us.... to love Him with ALL of our hearts, and to love others as we lvoe ourselves.... and apply it to our lives, do we truly believe we can do so if we just try harder?

What do we tell a man caught in the web of inappropriate content? Think good thoughts? Get an accountability partner? Memorize more scripture? How exactly does one "bring every thought unto the obedience of Christ"? I can tell you this much. Whatever we are telling him isn't working.

Holiness is God's character grafted into us. It comes by abiding in Him because that is the only place we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, right?

But again, that leads to another dilemma, and a question. How do we abide in Him? Until we admit preaching the need for holiness is not enough to bring the desired results, we will continue to wallow in the wilderness, running endless religious laps, always moving, never truly getting anywhere.

There IS an answer, but God is waiting until we hunger and thirst for righteousness, and stop remaining satisfied with just forgiveness. It is the cry of our heart He is waiting to hear, and an admission that without a miracle, we are in deep trouble.

In these last days, God is awakening His own, and He will plant our feet on the highway of holiness despite our weaknesses. But until we can see that no amount of our effort will suffice, unless it is God in us doing the heavy lifting, we will remain NOT free indeed.

Amazing days are ahead......

blessings,

Gids
 
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Mathetes66

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The reason is the same reason the Paul found with the saints in the church at Corinth.

I Cor 1:10ff I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree together, so that there may be no divisions among you & that you may be united in mind & conviction. My brothers, some from Chloe’s household have informed me that there are quarrels among you. What I mean is this: Individuals among you are saying, “I follow Paul,” “I follow Apollos,” “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.”

13Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul? I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus & Gaius, so no one can say that you were baptized into my name. Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that I do not remember baptizing anyone else. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with words of wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

18For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.”

20Where is the wise man? Where is the scribe? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God, the world through its wisdom did NOT KNOW Him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.

22Jews demand signs & Greeks search for wisdom, but we preach Christ CRUCIFIED, a stumbling block to Jews & foolishness to Gentiles, but to those who are called, both Jews & Greeks, Christ the power of God & the wisdom of God. For the foolishness of God is wiser than man’s wisdom & the weakness of God is stronger than man’s strength.

I Cor 2:1,2,6,13 When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except JESUS CHRIST & HIM CRUCIFIED. Among the mature, however, we speak a message of wisdom—but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. No, we speak of the mysterious & hidden wisdom of God, which He destined for our glory before time began. And this is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom, but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.

I Cor 3:1-9,18-21
Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual, but as worldly—as infants in Christ. I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for solid food. In fact, you are still not ready, for you are still worldly.

For since there is jealousy & dissension among you, are you not worldly? Are you not walking in the way of mankind? 4For when one of you says, “I follow Paul” & another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere men?

5What then is Apollos? And what is Paul? They are SERVANTS through whom you believed, as the Lord has assigned to each his ROLE. I planted the seed & Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. He who plants & he who waters are one in purpose & each will be rewarded according to his own labor. For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.

Let no one deceive himself. If any of you thinks he is wise in this age, he should become a fool, so that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is FOOLISHNESS in God’s sight. As it is written: “He catches the wise in their craftiness.” And again, “The Lord knows that the thoughts of the wise are futile (empty, vain).” THEREFORE STOP BOASTING IN MEN.

Heb 5:7-14; 6:11,12 During the days of Jesus’ earthly life, He offered up prayers & petitions with loud cries & tears to the One who could save Him from death, & He was heard because of His reverence. Although He was a Son, He LEARNED OBEDIENCE FROM WHAT HE SUFFERED. And having been made perfect, He became the source of eternal salvation to all who OBEY Him & was designated by God as high priest in the order of Melchizedek.

We have much to say about this, but it is hard to explain, because you are DULL OF HEARING. Although by this time you ought to be teachers, you need someone to reteach you the basic principles of God’s word. You need MILK NOT SOLID FOOD! For everyone who lives on milk is STILL AN INFANT, INEXPERIENCED IN THE MESSAGE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. But SOLID FOOD IS FOR THE MATURE, THOSE WHO BY CONSTANT USE HAVE TRAINED THEIR {SPIRITUAL} SENSES TO DISTINGUISH GOOD FROM EVIL.

We want each of you to show this same diligence to the very end, in order to make your hope sure. Then you will not be SLUGGISH, but will imitate those who through faith & patience inherit what has been promised.

I Cor 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I set aside childish ways.

Eph 4:1-6,11-16 As a prisoner in the Lord, then, I urge you to walk in a manner worthy of the calling you have received: with all humility & gentleness, with patience, bearing with one another in love & with diligence preserve the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace.

11And it was He who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists & some to be pastors & teachers, to equip the saints for works of ministry, to build up the body of Christ, until we all reach unity in the faith & in the knowledge of the Son of God, as we mature to the full measure of the stature of Christ.

14Then we will NO LONGER BE INFANTS, TOSSED ABOUT BY THE WAVES & CARRIED AROUND BY EVERY WIND OF TEACHING & BY THE CLEVER CUNNING OF MEN IN THEIR DECEITFUL SCHEMING. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things GROW UP INTO CHRIST HIMSELF, who is the Head. From Him the whole body is fitted & held together by every supporting ligament & as each part does its WORK (PART, ROLE), the body grows & builds itself up IN LOVE.

Those who are mature seek unity in the body of Christ but not at the expense of false teaching, able to discern what is good vs what is evil, recognizing & steering clear of the evil things. They focus on teaching people to love & obey Christ & live out sound doctrine in their lives.

No longer do people get tossed all over by every deceitful wind of teaching, contrary to the faith once for all delivered to the saints. There are no outbursts of anger & temper tantrums, when people can't get their way or selfishly seeking things for themselves. Instead maturity serves & builds others up, freely giving since they have freely received from Christ.

The main solution to get rid of immaturity in the body of Christ: Preach the cross, Jesus Christ & Him crucified. Denying self, taking up one's personal cross daily, dying to self & instead of going their own selfish way, they follow Christ & imitate Him, remaining in His words. They then experience true freedom in their lives & grow in the leading & power of the Spirit, being vibrant witnesses for Him.




4There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
 
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topher694

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For someone who lived as the poster boy for Romans 7 for 38 years, being willing to walk in holiness (which I was) is not the same as being able (which I most definitely was not, lol).

When we take what God asks of us.... to love Him with ALL of our hearts, and to love others as we lvoe ourselves.... and apply it to our lives, do we truly believe we can do so if we just try harder?

What do we tell a man caught in the web of inappropriate content? Think good thoughts? Get an accountability partner? Memorize more scripture? How exactly does one "bring every thought unto the obedience of Christ"? I can tell you this much. Whatever we are telling him isn't working.

Holiness is God's character grafted into us. It comes by abiding in Him because that is the only place we do not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, right?

But again, that leads to another dilemma, and a question. How do we abide in Him? Until we admit preaching the need for holiness is not enough to bring the desired results, we will continue to wallow in the wilderness, running endless religious laps, always moving, never truly getting anywhere.

There IS an answer, but God is waiting until we hunger and thirst for righteousness, and stop remaining satisfied with just forgiveness. It is the cry of our heart He is waiting to hear, and an admission that without a miracle, we are in deep trouble.

In these last days, God is awakening His own, and He will plant our feet on the highway of holiness despite our weaknesses. But until we can see that no amount of our effort will suffice, unless it is God in us doing the heavy lifting, we will remain NOT free indeed.

Amazing days are ahead......

blessings,

Gids
I guess my point is that the same issues that hinder ministries from truly equipping believers to overcome are the very same issues that also hinder believers from truly following ministries that do equip them for it.
 
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Gideons300

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I guess my point is that the same issues that hinder ministries from truly equipping believers to overcome are the very same issues that also hinder believers from truly following ministries that do equip them for it.
I agree wholeheartedly. The question is.... when do we finally stop and ask God why it is not working. He does have an answer for us. Could it be He is waiting on us to cry out in hunger for us to be freed from the power of sin and self rule and made into overcomers like He has promised us?

Blessings,

Gideon
 
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trophy33

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Because we live 2,000 years after the apostles died and we have many possibilites how to understand baptism, faith, works, judgement etc.

There is no final worldly authority like the apostle Paul who would correct us. Therefore these "basics" are the source of unending discussions.
 
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mourningdove~

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Why are so many still in the elementary principles of Christ


Because "that's" where "they" are! :)

The way I see it …
as brothers and sisters in Christ, we can lovingly share what we know, believe …
but our ultimate Teacher is the Holy Spirit …


And when we are born again, He takes us and leads us to maturity in Christ …
on the spiritual path that He knows is best for each of us, individually.


That journey can, and often does, consist of many "twists and turns" …
sometimes "3 steps forward, and 2 steps back" …
and around and around the same "mountain" do we sometimes go …
but He never "gives up on us", never stops working to lead us to spiritual maturity …
and eternal happiness in Christ.


We are not "all the same" when we are born again.
Persons are different ages, different socioeconomic backgrounds ...
some more "broken" and wounded by life than others …
some having had more advantages in life than others …
oh, so many variables.


It can seem odd … frustrating at times … to see persons not appearing to "advance" …
but how can we truly "judge" those things?

It is only God that truly knows the heart of a man, or woman …
and the work He is accomplishing in it.


Though I found your question to be very thought-provoking …
and I know many of the "church" answers that could apply …
I know better than to try and start listing them …
because I know the many times I have needed a "repeat" lesson in the faith …
and later asked myself, "Why did it take so long?" …
only to not get a "simple" answer.


I am grateful for the lessons that never did stop,
before I was able to grasp what the Lord was wanting me to see …

"Oh, give thanks to the Lord, for He is good!
For His mercy endures forever."

~ Psalm 136:1

 
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hislegacy

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I agree wholeheartedly. The question is.... when do we finally stop and ask God why it is not working. He does have an answer for us. Could it be He is waiting on us to cry out in hunger for us to be freed from the power of sin and self rule and made into overcomers like He has promised us?

Blessings,

Gideon

2 Cor 5 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
Agreed - the moment of accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior - we are in Christ and old things have passed away, all things have become new.

We need to start teaching and preaching what redemption has provided for us. Set people free from their past and on the path of Righteousness. The problem is too many religious wanting to keep people at the foot of the Cross forever repenting, forever focused on sin and weakness and not on the majesty and greatness of God in them making them righteous as a gift.

Time to graduate people past the elementary teachings and release them into this great revival happening all around us
 
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Blade

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There are "words" I believe we need to be careful of. "MANY" "MOST". Seen talked to many, most have we? Can't be Churches were talking about. I've seen allot of posts but.. even then can't then base it off that persons one post I read.

Yes to get off milk on to meat! Paul was over them.. He has a right to speak to them. Sorry.. who here has this right? I am going to guess they (most many) don't know who you are nor what you personally believe. YES that really mattes. What comes to mind is the OT.. sorry.. when did the spirit leave me to you? (yes we now each have the holy spirit) :)

That preacher that starts that Church.. helps them.. He then goes.. comes back many months later or year or two. Comes back to find out..they have not grown. THAT preacher has a right to speak to them.

I say this allot.. it USE to be when someone like this or the one that would come up saying "THUS SAYS THE LORD" they would ask him/her who are you? Who knows you? How long have you walked in what you preach/teach? All would go pray for a very long time. WE DONT do this ...yet its very wise no?
 
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Gideons300

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There are "words" I believe we need to be careful of. "MANY" "MOST". Seen talked to many, most have we? Can't be Churches were talking about. I've seen allot of posts but.. even then can't then base it off that persons one post I read.

Yes to get off milk on to meat! Paul was over them.. He has a right to speak to them. Sorry.. who here has this right? I am going to guess they (most many) don't know who you are nor what you personally believe. YES that really mattes. What comes to mind is the OT.. sorry.. when did the spirit leave me to you? (yes we now each have the holy spirit) :)

That preacher that starts that Church.. helps them.. He then goes.. comes back many months later or year or two. Comes back to find out..they have not grown. THAT preacher has a right to speak to them.

I say this allot.. it USE to be when someone like this or the one that would come up saying "THUS SAYS THE LORD" they would ask him/her who are you? Who knows you? How long have you walked in what you preach/teach? All would go pray for a very long time. WE DONT do this ...yet its very wise no?
Do you realize that multitudes are sitting under preachers who will not say the hard things that need to be said, either for fear of losing tithers or simply because they themselves have been deluded into believing continuing in sin is not dangerous?

And yet some want to make an issue out of using generalities that are indeed true for many saints in these last days? We need to stop being offended for a word and get offended at the lukewarm walk that has become the Western church.

Do not people have the right to simply bypass the words of someone who warns of danger? Can they not take them to heart if they feel it is true, or simply ignore the counsel if it is believed to be off base?

Watchmen have a holy responsibility to share the truth that needs to be shared. God tells them if they share and it is ignored, the blood pf those needing warning is on their own hands. But if the watchman does not speak, ignoring the prompts of the Holy Spirit, for fear of offending, or being disliked, then the blood of those who should have been warned is on the hands of the watchman himself.

It is not a 'pleasant' ministry, trust me. But with the conditions found in the world today, and with the church sleepwalking through life, waiting for the Heavenly Bible bus to rescue them from all these 'sinners' that offend, no ministry right now is more called for. I pray for the day that is is not so, and it IS coming. ☺️

I have tried as best I can to make sure the reader knows that the motive is pure when I share. But share I must. Woe to me if I do not.

I fully realize that some things I share are hard to hear. If you have read a number of my posts, I think you will find that most are encouraging and faith-filled, as I try to help strugglers find the way to the victorious life of overcoming that Jesus has purchased for us.

However, just as important as building up the new man is developing a true understanding that the old nature must be put off, and that will happen only when we finally begin to see it as an evil supplanter, one that cannot be tamed or reasoned with. It will not gradually die as we have been taught, simply by the passage of time. Reckoned dead by faith. That is the only way to make our tree good.

But how many there are who feel they are just fine and have need of nothing. Oh, they are growing towards holiness, but that is a far cry from growing IN IT.

The world clearly sees our folly. Our shallowness. Our lack of passion for souls. Our 'non-Christian' side at work or on Saturday nights. Sadly, we do not.... yet.

May God break us of our contentment without godliness and pour out His Spirit again upon us without measure. May we love ALL the words God has for us, not just the ones that do not challenge us. Words that taste sweet to our mouths but bring bitterness to our stomachs.

Tears must be shed, there is no substitute, but those tears will water our seeds of faith that will grow and bear true fruit, and when that happens, we of all people will be the most amazed.

blessings to you, dear brother

Gideon
 
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ByTheSpirit

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James tells us that works is the evidence of faith. Maybe the church needs to teach more about works. The world certainly can use more good works.
Problem is so much of the church is grace centered that just the mention of works gets you hissed at for teaching heresy
 
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ByTheSpirit

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Honestly I think the author of Hebrews (no proof it was Paul), was trying to dissuade his audience from reverting back to Judaism, or at least trying to separate Jewish practices and customs from grace centered Christianity. The author later goes on to state that his readers should spur each other on to love and good works.

Again I think its meant specifically for a group of people who were probably former Jews and being tempted to fall back into their Jewish customs and practices.

Still does have an application for each of us; we should leave our past behind and look forward to the life God wants from us, a life filled with good works that come from genuine love.

Plus the other problem is there are a multitude of people in the CF-verse that want to be heard. No matter the topic, they want to get their message out and it can often times be a rather basic and elementary subject.
 
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That is because we neglect to diligently study the scriptures through which the Gospel of Christ is given. But it gets worse. There are an increasing number of people who claim Christ yet do not adhere to even the basics of Christianity.

Have you ever viewed the Barna statistics regarding biblical literacy within the Church? The findings are very dismal.

Furthermore, the scriptures are not being taught in their full counsel by many Pastors and Church leaders nor do they admonish they whom they are teaching to diligently read and study the scriptures. They are not prepared to give answer for the faith profess to be within them (1. Pet. 3:15) neither do they earnestly contend for the faith (Jude 3) or oppose those the lies that blind people to the truth of the Gospel nor do they confront the false doctrines and heresies that lead the saints astray , blaspheme God, and overthrow faith.

Where the truth of God does not abide, falsehood, lies, and heresies abound.
To be honest... The book of acts believers had No new testiment
They had the Holy Spirit faith and obedience.
 
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