Meme Mangles Constitutional Rights
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Yekcidmij
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I generally agree. The Constitution was written within a framework of individual rights and liberty. The Constitution didn't grant citizens rights, it was supposed to protect the rights everyone already possesses.
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SoldierOfTheKing
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Rights are legal concept. Nobody can possess rights in any meaningful sense except insofar as the law bestows them.
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Ringo84
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It's bemusing to me that the same people who claim to love the Constitution so much have either not failed it or conveniently forgotten:
"ALL men are created equal and endowed by their creator by certain inalienable rights, that among them are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".
Nowhere in any of that are 'Americans' or even 'law abiders' mentioned. It says "ALL men" and that's what it means.
Ringo
"ALL men are created equal and endowed by their creator by certain inalienable rights, that among them are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness".
Nowhere in any of that are 'Americans' or even 'law abiders' mentioned. It says "ALL men" and that's what it means.
Ringo
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Yet law breakers lose many of their rights so that debunks your position already. Plus, the constitution is the American constitution and what rights it gives it gives only to Americans.
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
These rights were protected by this constitution for those who are a part of the new Government. People from other governments are not a part of this constitution and it's rights.
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Ringo84
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That's not what it says. "All" means "all men are created equal". Nowhere does it invalidate other governments (that passage is referring to the founders dissolving ties with Great Britain, not invalidating other laws/governments) or say "restrictions apply. Americans only".
Carrying your point of view to an extreme would mean that we can't honor treaties because "all other governments are invalidated by our Constitution". That's not what it says and I have no clue where you're getting it from, but it's wrong.
Ringo
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No, I'm not wrong. The US constitution only protects America human rights not the rights of other governments and non-Americans. The United States was created to protect those rights for US citizens.
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Ringo84
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That's an excuse for not caring about the human rights of other people, especially those in our care.
If we take the Constitution's claim that "all men are created equal" seriously, then the human rights it protects should also protect the rights of """illegals""", migrants, criminals, and everyone else. The Constitution does not make that optional.
Ringo
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SoldierOfTheKing
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Ringo84
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It's still the basis on which our entire country is founded. Saying "oh, but you're not citizens, so we can do whatever we like with you" is antithetical to the founders' vision (to the extent that they had a unified vision, of course).
Saying "our enemies have no rights" is one of the unmistakable stepping stones of fascism.
Ringo
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I think other sovereign nations would object to the idea that the U.S. has authority within their borders.
The FFs loved lofty language, but in practice it is understood American authority only applies within American borders. Anything else is imperialism ... which did have its day, but didn't go well.
Further, conflating American interests with human rights, and human rights with Christianity, is a real problem.
The FFs loved lofty language, but in practice it is understood American authority only applies within American borders. Anything else is imperialism ... which did have its day, but didn't go well.
Further, conflating American interests with human rights, and human rights with Christianity, is a real problem.
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