Sola Fide (Faith Alone) Sets the Record Straight

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Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.
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Because they did not BELIEVE. See John 3:18. Again, 1 John 2:3-4 is the effect and not the cause of knowing or not knowing the Lord. You are teaching salvation by works.

Also, when you read John 3:18, you also have to keep reading on into the "reference to the Condemntation" in John 3:19-21. Verse 20 makes it really clear. It says all who do evil hate the light. So if a believer in the Belief Alone camp says they can sin and still be saved on occasion because their future sins are paid for by Jesus, they are not telling the truth because John 3:20 says all who do evil hate the light. The true light that lights the way of every man.
 
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anna ~ grace

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It takes much wrestling over verbiage Chosen, but I have yet to meet a Catholic or Orthodox Believer (That Knows And understands their catechism) that says anything but Jesus Saves.

As for who a Christian is... I have no right to say who is and who isn’t.

I ask people if Christs Life, Death, Burial and Resurrection is sufficient to save a person and listen for any “yeah but’s”.

I don’t consider that person unsaved (at “yeah but”) or if they go beyond “yeah but” and even incorporate works of the flesh into their salvation. I do however challenge their premise with scripture and note Paul’s words about “any other Gospel”.

Sadly, the hard core works based refuse to say they are saved. They honestly say this and it upsets me. By their own mouth they deny Christ’s sufficiency to save.
They do tend to view salvation as a journey, though. As a journey of Christ saving us through faith and through what we do in Him, in response to His grace.
 
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Grip Docility

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Also, when you read John 3:18, you also have to keep reading on into the "reference to the Condemntation" in John 3:19-21. Verse 20 makes it really clear. It says all who do evil hate the light. So if a believer in the Belief Alone camp says they can sin and still be saved on occasion because their future sins are paid for by Jesus, they are not telling the truth because John 3:20 says all who do evil hate the light. The true light that lights the way of every man.

Jason,

One sacrifice for all sin. That’s the Gospel. Jesus Saves totally, not partially.

To have the blood of Jesus defiled and say we are capable of Saving ourselves in any fashion is to negate the need for Jesus Christ!
 
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Grip Docility

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They do tend to view salvation as a journey, though. As a journey of Christ saving us through faith and through what we do in Him, in response to His grace.

I agree... but that is not what St. Paul teaches, so I have two choices... compromise biblical doctrine to appease doctrine that has discouraged many from understanding the true struggle even Christians have... to the point they give up or never come to Christ in the first place... or I speak honestly towards people that study their bible and bind heavy burdens up on believers and unbelievers backs, alike.
 
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anna ~ grace

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I agree... but that is not what St. Paul teaches, so I have two choices... compromise biblical doctrine to appease doctrine that has discouraged many from understanding the true struggle even Christians have... to the point they give up or never come to Christ in the first place... or I speak honestly towards people that study their bible and bind heavy burdens up on believers and unbelievers backs, alike.
What about looking into how and why Catholic and Orthodox Christians read and understand Scripture the way they do?

I don't doubt your sincerity or faith, brother. But there are communities of us who have existed for 2,000 years. We have had and read and studied Scripture for 2,000 years. In Greek, Latin, Aramaic, and other languages. Our Divine Liturgies and Masses are full of Scripture. And we have never held that God's grace saves us only through faith.
 
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Grip Docility

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What about looking into how and why Catholic and Orthodox Christians read and understand Scripture the way they do?

I don't doubt your sincerity or faith, brother. But there are communities of us who have existed for 2,000 years. We have had and read and studied Scripture for 2,000 years. In Greek, Latin, Aramaic, and other languages. Our Divine Liturgies and Masses are full of Scripture. And we have never held that God's grace saves us only through faith.

I, too, acknowledge your faith and sincerity. I have no desire to wrestle out the Faith Alone part.

I will simply ask this...

What does Romans 4:1-6 mean to you?

I have read your posts and know all of your hope is in Him and not yourself.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you, agent of Christ’s Mercy and Love.
 
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Danthemailman

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Again, I don't believe in Salvation by Works Alone-ism. So there is no confusion on my believing that we are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace through faith. A believer cannot obey the Lord unless they first believe in Jesus as their Savior, and believe the gospel (i.e. to believe in His death and resurrection for salvation) via by faith. Most of the time, this involves seeking forgiveness of one's sins with the Lord Jesus Christ, as well. This is the Justification Process. This is where salvation starts. This is where we stand our ground involving our salvation. It the foundation upon which we build. Jesus. Works of faith and or holy living is the next step or stage in the salvation process (i.e. Sanctification by God doing the good work through us). If a person is not entering into this next step or stage of salvation, they not making good on their prayer to the Lord or in truly believing in Jesus as their Savior.

God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).
You teach salvation by faith AND WORKS. Justification is not a process, but ongoing sanctification is. Man is saved through faith and not by works (Ephesians 2:8,9; Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:9); yet genuine faith is vindicated, substantiated, evidenced by works (James 2:14-24).

*Christ saves us through faith based on the merits of His finished work of redemption "alone" and not based on the merits of our works.

It is through faith "in Christ alone" (and not by the merits of our works) that we are justified on account of Christ (Romans 3:24; 5:1; 5:9); yet the faith that justifies is never alone (solitary, unfruitful, barren) if it is genuine (James 2:14-24). *Perfect Harmony*
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:oldthumbsup:

Until you get this right your doctrine will remain out of balance and you will continue to confuse descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture. The end result is type 2 works salvation.
 
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anna ~ grace

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I, too, acknowledge your faith and sincerity. I have no desire to wrestle out the Faith Alone part.

I will simply ask this...

What does Romans 4:1-6 mean to you?
Sure. Nothing we do can merit our trusting in Christ. Nothing we do can merit our saving faith in Christ. While this is true, it is not faith alone which saves. Faith is a gift of God, who also calls us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, by grace. Faith, and works.

God be with you, friend, and thank you for your kindness, and thoughtfulness. Christ bless you.
 
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Danthemailman

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Also, when you read John 3:18, you also have to keep reading on into the "reference to the Condemntation" in John 3:19-21. Verse 20 makes it really clear. It says all who do evil hate the light. So if a believer in the Belief Alone camp says they can sin and still be saved on occasion because their future sins are paid for by Jesus, they are not telling the truth because John 3:20 says all who do evil hate the light. The true light that lights the way of every man.
Another example of confusing descriptive passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture.
 
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Grip Docility

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Sure. Nothing we do can merit our trusting in Christ. Nothing we do can merit our saving faith in Christ. While this is true, it is not faith alone which saves. Faith is a gift of God, who also calls us to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, by grace. Faith, and works.

God be with you, friend, and thank you for your kindness, and thoughtfulness. Christ bless you.

I will simply say you don’t put the cart before the horse. You know those works are His and not yours. I know genuine humility, rooted in Jesus, by Jesus, when it is spoken.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you.
 
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anna ~ grace

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I will simply say you don’t put the cart before the horse. You know those works are His and not yours. I know genuine humility, rooted in Jesus, by Jesus.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you.
Sure. The works through which God saves us as we follow Christ and are conformed to His image are works which we do through grace. We do them, our will is active, yet we do these saving works by God's grace. Apart from Him, we'd have and be absolutely nothing.

Bless you, friend.
 
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Grip Docility

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Sure. The works through which God saves us as we follow Christ and are conformed to His image are works which we do through grace. We do them, our will is active, yet we do these saving works by God's grace. Apart from Him, we'd have and be absolutely nothing.

Bless you, friend.

In the heart of debate, standing alone in the stead of a Christian gripped by brutal sin, the Orthodox have always come to my side, in defense of the struggling individual’s stead in Christ.

I didn’t understand the verbiage initially, but I learned to recognize the imparted Spirit Of Grace.

It was through this that I ceased concern over the “Orthodox” understanding of Justification.

I thank you for your blessings and wish them back to you and the Love of your life, as well.

- Grip
 
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bcbsr

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Belief Alone Propnent says that all you need to do is believe and you are saved..
By that definition it appears that Jesus is a "Belief Alone Proponent" as you put it.

"I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24

As is his apostle Paul, "That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, "Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame." Rom 10:9-11

Jason versus the Lord Jesus and the apostle Paul. Who do you think I'm leaning towards?
 
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bcbsr

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So if a believer in the Belief Alone camp says they can sin and still be saved on occasion because their future sins are paid for by Jesus, they are not telling the truth because John 3:20 says all who do evil hate the light. The true light that lights the way of every man.
Once again, as I pointed out to your previously, you yourself believe that one can sin and not lose their salvation, as long as the sin is not the in Jason Category of non-grevious sins.
 
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anna ~ grace

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Seeing as this kind of question is not really allowed on these forums. I assume you're just bating people to get them banned.
No, I'm not. Just wanted to know. It seems, these days, there are threads started which seem to infer that Christians who reject Sola Fidé are Christians in name only, and are not true Christians.

I would hope that Christians who do adhere to Sola Fidé would still regard devout Catholic, Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East, and other Christians as fellow Christians.
 
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bcbsr

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Jesus Himself gave two great commandments: love God and love your neighbor as you love yourself.

In short, faith and works.
Jesus said those are the two great commandments of the Law of Moses.

But under the New Covenant, the two greatest commandments are given in 1John 3:23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.
 
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Grip Docility

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No, I'm not. Just wanted to know. It seems, these days, there are threads started which seem to infer that Christians who reject Sola Fidé are Christians in name only, and are not true Christians.

I would hope that Christians who do adhere to Sola Fidé would still regard devout Catholic, Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East, and other Christians as fellow Christians.

When you speak of utter reliance on Jesus Christ for everything you salvationally need, you are agreeing with Faith Alone.

It is the accusations of people against the sufficiency of Jesus Christ and His completed work that twists what Faith Alone means.

No believer in Faith Alone, that understands surrender to God, denies that God utilizes us and works through His children to further the Gospel and reshape the very souls of its adherents.

Ephesians 2:8-10 and Romans 4:1-6, teach Faith Alone. The rejection of the doctrine of Faith Alone invents accusations against Faith Alone that aren’t in the doctrine.

This is the topic of the OP.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Aha! I agree with you. James isn't arguing against faith alone. James is agreeing with Jesus, where John 15 is written.

I'll craft an analogy...

Lets say there is a mighty body of water...

Rapid.jpg


A piece of Bamboo can divert some of this water to be diverted by a system of Bamboo, for 100's of miles.

Drip-irrigation-using-bamboo.jpg


The Bamboo will have this water flowing from it, as long as it stays "in" the original water source. This is Faith.

The water is not our own and merely flows through us as a result of our Faith.

Friend I already showed you that this analogy does not address John 15:2 where Jesus says The Father cuts off every branch in Me that does not bear fruit. So even tho these branches are attached to the vine they are not bearing fruit. So in reference to your analogy we have pieces of bamboo that are in the stream but are not carrying water. So this analogy does not fit the message in John 15.
 
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