SPF

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Debating an atheist, or other person who believes a lie and is fully convinced that it's the truth, is completely pointless and hopeless.
They will never accept that what you are saying is true simply because you can prove it or argue for it well in a debate.
Paul would disagree with you. I recommend reading Acts 17, you'll see where Paul was moved by the Holy Spirit to debate and reason with the people of Athens.

It's interesting I say that as I've also said countless times that I believe a person's "block" in coming to Christ is of course their sinful nature, and is at it's root a moral problem, not an intellectual problem. People may sound like they have intellectual reasons for not accepting Christ, but if you dig deep enough, it's always going to be a moral reason.

But! That doesn't mean that engaging in reasons as to why Christianity is true and a valid worldview and a superior worldview is wrong. Peter encourages this:

1 Peter 3:15 - but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence;

I think one of the most important things to remember is that we are not doing the saving or convincing. The Holy Spirit is the one that convicts people and leads them to Christ. It's-not-us. Our job is to present the Gospel through our words and through our lives. We are not responsible for how people respond to how we live or what we say - that's on God. You and I don't lead people to Christ - The Holy Spirit does.

For me, when I engage in conversation and activity with atheists, I remind myself that sinners are doing what they're supposed to do - sin! That's why we are not supposed to judge those that are outside of the Church - why would we expect them to do anything but sin? Why would we expect them to do anything but call us crazy and delusional and wrong?

Our job is to simply love them and both live the truth and speak the truth. We can leave the saving to the Holy Spirit.
 
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Tropical Wilds

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I have never had an issue discussing faith with an Atheist, and the number of times I’ve been demeaned for my faith by an Atheist I can count on one hand.

The number of times I have been demeaned for my faith by other Christians, though...
 
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PaulCyp1

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What you say is very often true. On the other hand, many atheists do accept the truth and become Christian every year. All we can do is offer it. Whether to accept or reject it is their choice. But it can't be accepted unless it is offered.
 
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Blade

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I agree...never been a fan of debating. Been hard pressed to find TWO going in wanting to listen to learn to see if maybe they might be wrong. And now you must stay in your little group. Theres not ONE Body.. and man and even some believers in JESUS Christ WILL force this on you.

Then some post to have us talk about.. to see the different points of view... I like that some times. Again.. do WE go in it with LOVE? Or going in KNOWING we are right.
 
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Ronald

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I don't know if anyone has posted a thread like this one before.
I'm still new here (on CF) and I don't know what I'm doing. I don't even know if this is in the right forum.
Here goes:

I know that many Christians (myself included) enjoy having heated debates with atheists and other non-Christian people.

After hanging around this site looking at some of the debates and talking with a family member about it,
I have come to the conclusion:

Debating an atheist, or other person who believes a lie and is fully convinced that it's the truth, is completely pointless and hopeless.
They will never accept that what you are saying is true simply because you can prove it or argue for it well in a debate.

Debating someone, is not going to in any way help win them or other people to Christ.

You can present the truth in the best, fullest, most convincing way possible, but a person who wants to be an atheist is going to stay an atheist no matter how many times you disprove their beliefs or prove the truth of yours.

If one the main commands from God that Christians have is to try to win people to Christ, maybe we should stop trying to save people by proving them wrong (because it's not working).

I think that being "the light of the world" does not mean telling people how wrong they are.
I don't mean we're not supposed to tell people that they are wrong, I mean that once they've been told once or twice, they don't need to be told again and again in different ways that we believe they're wrong.

Whether they admit it or not and no matter how much of a "logical thinker" they are, all humans think and reason on an emotional foundation. Therefore it makes since that the best way to win atheists and other unbelievers to Christ is by showing them the love of Christ.

It really bothers me that some (I think most) Christians start name calling and bullying when they get angry in a debate. That's not at all going to win people to Christ.

Instead of doing things the same way our non-Christian opponents in debates are doing, maybe we should try doing things differently. Be in the world but not of the world.

Just a thought.
I've spent years debating atheists, coming away from almost all of it with a similar feeling, that it is a waste of time. This is wrong though. Apologetics, a defense for the Christian faith, on every level is necessary. Though the blind cannot see, keep in mind, THE WORK OF THE HOLY SPIRIT DOES NOT GO OUT VOID! Sometimes we witness to someone and think, What the heck was the point in all that? You do not know where that person is at or what issues behind all their arguments can be touched in a special prompting and message by the Holy Spirit working through you. We think our thoughts are all self generated, but sometimes we are unaware that the Holy Spirit planted that very response at the right time for that person to hear.
Listen, I think some of these folks are either angry with God or are seeking something subconsciously, testing Christianity, testing our knowledge and it confounds them somehow. People see things that we have that they don't and are attracted to it. They come to this forum. Why? Just to bash us and prove us fools. Sometimes it appears that way. Maybe they are trying to save us from our delusions of grandeur (Jesus, Heaven, faith, hope, etc.) But they are here for a reason that maybe they don't understand. They could very well be working for Satan too - we don't know. They pretend to be sound, solid in their thinking and "science" (if you want to call it that); but they are lost and weak, pretending to be strong. Without God, there is an empty void, a sense that life has no purpose or meaning. I know, they brush that off as if it matters much.
My father was an atheist for most of his life. At ten years old, he had seven sisters, a mom and a dying Dad. He was brought up Catholic. So he knelt down and prayed to God to save his father's life. God said no, he died and crushed this little boy. So, from that point on, my Dad did not believe. Then later on in life my brother died and once again he was devastated. He said he believed less. Wait, I thought he didn't believe? See, he was more angry.
So what was I to do. I wrote 30 page editorial of various arguments refuting the TOE. I spent some time on it and gave it to him. That was my attempt to use apologetics. Apparently, it went on disbelieving. Then I wrote a book about Christianity. Let me back up a bit. There have been letters, long letters about my faith that I wrote to him and after so many, he firmly said, "Don't ever give me any scriptures anymore or mention the Bible ..."! Okay, so a decade later, I wrote this book and he said, "Oh, my son has written a book, I'll have to read it." I said, you told me once never to give you another scripture, this book has 570 of the most powerful scriptures." Well, he was weak, in his 80's, his health failing, had seen the better years of his life and finally, there was nothing left to look forward to. So, what's next after death he probably pondered. Well, his wife told me she caught him praying to God one day (something I recommended in the book if you were to take it seriously). I think this atheist made his piece with God before death. Why? Because I want to think that ... because he was my Dad? No. Because he was a good, loving man, a good father, a hard worker. He lived by Biblically principles that he didn't realize were in the Bible. He used to tell us to live by the Golden Rule. I told him, "Where do you think that came from"? He said, "It evolved through civilization." I said no, it came from Jesus: Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. And other principles too numerous to mention. Long story short, He exhibited gentleness, kindness, goodness, hope, peace, love, PATIENCE, self control. This is the fruit of the Holy Spirit is it not? Could it be His work? Of course it was. He prepared him, because God knows he would someday return.
You'll never know what atheist will turn towards God, you won't know how or when, but don't think that all we do is a waste of time.
 
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NeedyFollower

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I don't know if anyone has posted a thread like this one before.
I'm still new here (on CF) and I don't know what I'm doing. I don't even know if this is in the right forum.
Here goes:

I know that many Christians (myself included) enjoy having heated debates with atheists and other non-Christian people.

After hanging around this site looking at some of the debates and talking with a family member about it,
I have come to the conclusion:

Debating an atheist, or other person who believes a lie and is fully convinced that it's the truth, is completely pointless and hopeless.
They will never accept that what you are saying is true simply because you can prove it or argue for it well in a debate.

Debating someone, is not going to in any way help win them or other people to Christ.

You can present the truth in the best, fullest, most convincing way possible, but a person who wants to be an atheist is going to stay an atheist no matter how many times you disprove their beliefs or prove the truth of yours.

If one the main commands from God that Christians have is to try to win people to Christ, maybe we should stop trying to save people by proving them wrong (because it's not working).

I think that being "the light of the world" does not mean telling people how wrong they are.
I don't mean we're not supposed to tell people that they are wrong, I mean that once they've been told once or twice, they don't need to be told again and again in different ways that we believe they're wrong.

Whether they admit it or not and no matter how much of a "logical thinker" they are, all humans think and reason on an emotional foundation. Therefore it makes since that the best way to win atheists and other unbelievers to Christ is by showing them the love of Christ.

It really bothers me that some (I think most) Christians start name calling and bullying when they get angry in a debate. That's not at all going to win people to Christ.

Instead of doing things the same way our non-Christian opponents in debates are doing, maybe we should try doing things differently. Be in the world but not of the world.

Just a thought.
Yes ..I wondered the same thing . It seems in the book of Acts and elsewhere that " God added to the church daily " ...and elsewhere , unless the Lord build the house , they who labor , labor in vain . Jesus said , unless the Father draw them , no man can come unto me . " So it is of course the work of God if we can only get out of the way and not be an obstacle to God .
Now I do believe that we are to preach the word but also as you say , to demonstrate the love of God with meekness and humility .
 
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grandvizier1006

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People have to be willing to listen, and most people in general aren't. Real life debates are much more productive than Internet ones. I would suggest avoiding all of the atheists in these forums, if possible.
 
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madisonshpprd

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I don't know if anyone has posted a thread like this one before.
I'm still new here (on CF) and I don't know what I'm doing. I don't even know if this is in the right forum.
Here goes:

I know that many Christians (myself included) enjoy having heated debates with atheists and other non-Christian people.

After hanging around this site looking at some of the debates and talking with a family member about it,
I have come to the conclusion:

Debating an atheist, or other person who believes a lie and is fully convinced that it's the truth, is completely pointless and hopeless.
They will never accept that what you are saying is true simply because you can prove it or argue for it well in a debate.

Debating someone, is not going to in any way help win them or other people to Christ.

You can present the truth in the best, fullest, most convincing way possible, but a person who wants to be an atheist is going to stay an atheist no matter how many times you disprove their beliefs or prove the truth of yours.

If one the main commands from God that Christians have is to try to win people to Christ, maybe we should stop trying to save people by proving them wrong (because it's not working).

I think that being "the light of the world" does not mean telling people how wrong they are.
I don't mean we're not supposed to tell people that they are wrong, I mean that once they've been told once or twice, they don't need to be told again and again in different ways that we believe they're wrong.

Whether they admit it or not and no matter how much of a "logical thinker" they are, all humans think and reason on an emotional foundation. Therefore it makes since that the best way to win atheists and other unbelievers to Christ is by showing them the love of Christ.

It really bothers me that some (I think most) Christians start name calling and bullying when they get angry in a debate. That's not at all going to win people to Christ.

Instead of doing things the same way our non-Christian opponents in debates are doing, maybe we should try doing things differently. Be in the world but not of the world.

Just a thought.
Though the people others debate with might have a hardened heart, public debates and recorded ones have actually helped me, and many others find Christ because of the well thought-out refutations and answers given by the Christian. I understand just regular debates on Twitter are something that could be avoided, but as for formal debates, I’m all for it!
 
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PeachyKeane

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Okay, I'm going to admit to something here. I was an atheist for a good 17-18 years. So, I know a fair bit about who atheists are, how they think, why they don't believe, and such.

Growing up, my mother used to force my family to go to church, so it just became a part of my life, but in my teenage years my faith started to fade. When I got to college, and my mother wasn't around to force me to go to church, I found that I really didn't have reason to go. I still identified as Christian, but I found my faith rather empty. Being alone in a new town where I didn't know anyone, I got on my computer and went to an MSN chat room for Christians looking for advice.
When I went in, I asked the question "what do you do if you feel you're losing your faith?". One person responded: "Just remember Jesus and the Resurrection." To which I foolishly responded "What if you're not sure you believe in the resurrection?"

It was like everybody in the chat room jumped on me at once. One person even asked something along the lines "How dare you even ask that question?". I had only replied to one person before I was ejected and banned from the room by a moderator with the reasoning "This room is for Christians Only." And just like that, in a mere ten minutes, I was no longer a Christian. I accepted this very quickly. I was hurt, and I was angry, and I felt rather rejected. But, I had a new path.

I spent most of my first college years trying to figure out what I believed. I studied Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, and other concepts and ideas that had caught my interest. But, before I had finished my second year I knew that I was an atheist.

However, during my undergrad I had also met a friend who was very, very Catholic. He and I were both sort of outcasts, and became very close friends. We also spent times around a table or even driving debating God, Christ and everything.

I debated family members, friends, and strangers about God, Christ and everything as an atheist. I debated Jews, Muslims, Hindus and other atheists as an atheist. Truth be told, I still could.

So, knowing what I know, and being where I've been:

Every atheist has their obstacles to faith. Maybe someone has one that is insurmountable, but I was out there for almost two decades, and I found my way back. You will never craft an argument that will save someone. That's not your job. What you can do is help lift obstacles off of the path they need to take to find Christ themselves. That means finding out what keeps them from believing, and giving them the means to get past that.

You'd be surprised how often you are the obstacle. I was on the fence looking for Christians to pull me in, instead they literally shut me out, and that was it. I was gone for eighteen years. It was easy to stay gone because it was fairly obvious to me that Christians were arrogant, hollier-than-thou, jerks who hated me because I wasn't like them. That's a good reason to stay away from them, and it felt good to know that I wasn't one of them.

They aren't the enemy. I spent years and years listening to politicians, preachers, people on line, and even bumper stickers tell me how I was the enemy, or evil, or stupid. I listened as people explained why I didn't believe, what I really did believe, what I really did worship, what my motives were, and so on. They always presumed to know me better than I knew myself despite never having met me. I knew the truth. Having people lie about me did not attract me to the faith.

Don't be more arrogant than aware. When I debated my Catholic friend in particular, he would start a rebuttal with a phrase like "Yeah, but what if..." or "maybe it's not like that, maybe it's like this...". This very much played into my way of thinking (which is how a lot of atheists think), by considering a new option. He didn't play the "I have the truth and you don't" card. Even though you see it as explaining God's authority, atheists don't see it that way. To them it looks like you're attempting to argue from an authority they won't recognize, rather than knowledge, understanding, or reason. You look arrogant, and unable to justify your claims through normal discourse.

Remember that they don't believe what you believe. In keeping with the bit above, saying "I have the truth and you don't", "You're going to hell", and "One day you'll be judged!" are all "arguments" that don't hold much water with people who don't already believe what you believe.

Remember, they probably understand you better than you understand them. Most atheists come from some faith background, and in our society that's usually Christianity. They're probably far more familiar with Christian thought than you are with "not-Christian" thought. That's to your disadvantage. You've probably never been in their shoes, and cannot see things from their perspective. For most Christians there's a pretty good chance they haven't put a lot of thought into their faith. Atheists generally have put a lot of thought into why they don't believe.

It's okay to say "I don't know". Atheists are actually generally okay hearing "I don't know" if you don't know the answer to something. Don't make stuff up and call it truth. They would rather have you admit your limitations than get caught in a web of rationalizations. On the other hand, saying "I won't debate this" looks like you don't know, but are too prideful to admit you don't know.

Don't act like you're better than them. This seems redundant and obvious. It's not. They know you're not better than them, and they're more than happy to bring you down a peg or two to prove it to you.

It's okay to get to know them without trying to convert them. For one, you want to understand where they're coming from. Two, you want to understand what their obstacles are. Three, you want to be able to see things from their perspective. Four, it assures them that you don't believe you are better than them. Five, it builds trust.
 
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dms1972

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I think there is a time to debate and a time to not debate. The main problem when one tries to merely win an argument, rather than winning a soul to Jesus Christ. Its not wise to debate the wrong questions either on any issue not just the issues of faith and belief.

"The heart has its reasons which reason knows nothing of...We know the Truth not only by the reason, but by the heart." Pascal
 
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ml5363

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I don't know if anyone has posted a thread like this one before.
I'm still new here (on CF) and I don't know what I'm doing. I don't even know if this is in the right forum.
Here goes:

I know that many Christians (myself included) enjoy having heated debates with atheists and other non-Christian people.

After hanging around this site looking at some of the debates and talking with a family member about it,
I have come to the conclusion:

Debating an atheist, or other person who believes a lie and is fully convinced that it's the truth, is completely pointless and hopeless.
They will never accept that what you are saying is true simply because you can prove it or argue for it well in a debate.

Debating someone, is not going to in any way help win them or other people to Christ.

You can present the truth in the best, fullest, most convincing way possible, but a person who wants to be an atheist is going to stay an atheist no matter how many times you disprove their beliefs or prove the truth of yours.

If one the main commands from God that Christians have is to try to win people to Christ, maybe we should stop trying to save people by proving them wrong (because it's not working).

I think that being "the light of the world" does not mean telling people how wrong they are.
I don't mean we're not supposed to tell people that they are wrong, I mean that once they've been told once or twice, they don't need to be told again and again in different ways that we believe they're wrong.

Whether they admit it or not and no matter how much of a "logical thinker" they are, all humans think and reason on an emotional foundation. Therefore it makes since that the best way to win atheists and other unbelievers to Christ is by showing them the love of Christ.

It really bothers me that some (I think most) Christians start name calling and bullying when they get angry in a debate. That's not at all going to win people to Christ.

Instead of doing things the same way our non-Christian opponents in debates are doing, maybe we should try doing things differently. Be in the world but not of the world.

Just a thought.


Yes! All this does is causes discourse and repels people...God does the drawing and saving...

All this confusion is the work of the devil...we are suppose to encourage and lift each other up...
 
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Andrew77

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I don't know if anyone has posted a thread like this one before.
I'm still new here (on CF) and I don't know what I'm doing. I don't even know if this is in the right forum.
Here goes:

I know that many Christians (myself included) enjoy having heated debates with atheists and other non-Christian people.

After hanging around this site looking at some of the debates and talking with a family member about it,
I have come to the conclusion:

Debating an atheist, or other person who believes a lie and is fully convinced that it's the truth, is completely pointless and hopeless.
They will never accept that what you are saying is true simply because you can prove it or argue for it well in a debate.

Debating someone, is not going to in any way help win them or other people to Christ.

You can present the truth in the best, fullest, most convincing way possible, but a person who wants to be an atheist is going to stay an atheist no matter how many times you disprove their beliefs or prove the truth of yours.

If one the main commands from God that Christians have is to try to win people to Christ, maybe we should stop trying to save people by proving them wrong (because it's not working).

I think that being "the light of the world" does not mean telling people how wrong they are.
I don't mean we're not supposed to tell people that they are wrong, I mean that once they've been told once or twice, they don't need to be told again and again in different ways that we believe they're wrong.

Whether they admit it or not and no matter how much of a "logical thinker" they are, all humans think and reason on an emotional foundation. Therefore it makes since that the best way to win atheists and other unbelievers to Christ is by showing them the love of Christ.

It really bothers me that some (I think most) Christians start name calling and bullying when they get angry in a debate. That's not at all going to win people to Christ.

Instead of doing things the same way our non-Christian opponents in debates are doing, maybe we should try doing things differently. Be in the world but not of the world.

Just a thought.

I don't know... Why did Jesus engage in debates and name calling?

Now I do see a difference in that, Jesus was more likely to engage in a heated discussion with people who claim to be religious when they were not. Whereas Christians are more likely to give a complete pass to another Christian, and get heated with a pagan.

Which is part of what you were saying.

But when dealing with the pagans, it depends on what you mean by debate.

I have no problem giving pagans answers to their questions. I think all Christians should be willing to answer their question.

However, when they go "Well you are just using that as a crutch"... I say.. "thanks. Nice talking to you".

When the pagans ask you a question, I think you should answer them. When a pagans spit accusations, you just thank them, and move on.

Perfect example... a pagan on some forum, asked me what does the Bible say about homosexuality. I explained what the Bible taught. He asked if I believed that, and I said of course. Then he said I was evil and he found my faith disgusting. Thanks! If people hated Jesus, and he himself said they would hate me, because they hated him first... then that shows I'm on the right path.

And I told that to him, and then moved on.

Now there are Christians that would respond to that by jumping on them with both feet, and you are right, that is pointless. Why would we expect pagans to understand anything about Christianity, when they don't believe in Christianity? So why would they understand our views and our morality? Arguing they should follow the rules of a G-d they don't believe exists is stupid.

But we should still be able to answer their questions.

You just need 'to remember that when they ask "why do you believe that?" that after you tell them why you believe, that doesn't mean you have to respond to anything else. You don't have to. When they say "That is stupid and what about this and that!", you can say

"I don't need to answer that. I answerd your question. Good talking to you."
 
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Contenders Edge

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I don't know if anyone has posted a thread like this one before.
I'm still new here (on CF) and I don't know what I'm doing. I don't even know if this is in the right forum.
Here goes:

I know that many Christians (myself included) enjoy having heated debates with atheists and other non-Christian people.

After hanging around this site looking at some of the debates and talking with a family member about it,
I have come to the conclusion:

Debating an atheist, or other person who believes a lie and is fully convinced that it's the truth, is completely pointless and hopeless.
They will never accept that what you are saying is true simply because you can prove it or argue for it well in a debate.

Debating someone, is not going to in any way help win them or other people to Christ.

You can present the truth in the best, fullest, most convincing way possible, but a person who wants to be an atheist is going to stay an atheist no matter how many times you disprove their beliefs or prove the truth of yours.

If one the main commands from God that Christians have is to try to win people to Christ, maybe we should stop trying to save people by proving them wrong (because it's not working).

I think that being "the light of the world" does not mean telling people how wrong they are.
I don't mean we're not supposed to tell people that they are wrong, I mean that once they've been told once or twice, they don't need to be told again and again in different ways that we believe they're wrong.

Whether they admit it or not and no matter how much of a "logical thinker" they are, all humans think and reason on an emotional foundation. Therefore it makes since that the best way to win atheists and other unbelievers to Christ is by showing them the love of Christ.

It really bothers me that some (I think most) Christians start name calling and bullying when they get angry in a debate. That's not at all going to win people to Christ.

Instead of doing things the same way our non-Christian opponents in debates are doing, maybe we should try doing things differently. Be in the world but not of the world.

Just a thought.




While I partly agree with what you are saying, the reason why we engage in debate with those who would challenge our faith is not necessarily because we think that they might be won over with prevailing arguments although that is always possible, but so that others are not led astray by their lies and their lies can be very elaborate and cleverly crafted so as to seem believable.

It is also a great opportunity for those listening in on the debate to examine the facts of both sides with the hopes that they will be convinced that the facts side with our faith and that the faith we have in Christ is a faith also founded in reason and logic.

In a setting such as this forum, there are many people visiting this site who are seeking God but amongst the honest seekers are those who, in short, with their crafted arguments who come here with no other purpose but to turn others away from the faith who otherwise might receive Christ and to overthrow the faith of those who are already Christians, especially those who might be new in the faith.

It is for the sake of those seeking and for the purpose of solidifying the faith of those already following Christ that we engage in debate for in doing so, we are, as the scriptures say, pulling down strong holds, casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. (2 Cor. 10:4-5) but if we shy away from debate, then we fail to contend for the faith as we are commanded. (Jude 3)

I would also agree that there are those unbelievers who will never be persuaded by even the most undeniably convincing arguments on behalf of Christ due to their enmity against their Maker, but if they are found spreading their lies for the purpose of keeping from repentance those who otherwise might turn to Christ and causing those in Christ to abandon the faith, then under such circumstances, they must be confronted so as to undo their lies in the minds of them who might be led astray.

And just as you do, I find it a disgrace on the part of those professors of the faith who resort to name-calling and bullying tactics for in doing so, they are showing their case to be weak. It is bad enough that those are the tactics the unbelieving resort to when they are on the losing end, so is it any wonder that they would perceive themselves on the prevailing end of the debate when Christians resort to the name-calling and bullying tactics and personal attacks against them?

Resort to name-calling, bullying, and shaming in a debate and you’ve already lost.
 
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Pepper77

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I don't know if anyone has posted a thread like this one before.
I'm still new here (on CF) and I don't know what I'm doing. I don't even know if this is in the right forum.
Here goes:

I know that many Christians (myself included) enjoy having heated debates with atheists and other non-Christian people.

After hanging around this site looking at some of the debates and talking with a family member about it,
I have come to the conclusion:

Debating an atheist, or other person who believes a lie and is fully convinced that it's the truth, is completely pointless and hopeless.
They will never accept that what you are saying is true simply because you can prove it or argue for it well in a debate.

Debating someone, is not going to in any way help win them or other people to Christ.

You can present the truth in the best, fullest, most convincing way possible, but a person who wants to be an atheist is going to stay an atheist no matter how many times you disprove their beliefs or prove the truth of yours.

If one the main commands from God that Christians have is to try to win people to Christ, maybe we should stop trying to save people by proving them wrong (because it's not working).

I think that being "the light of the world" does not mean telling people how wrong they are.
I don't mean we're not supposed to tell people that they are wrong, I mean that once they've been told once or twice, they don't need to be told again and again in different ways that we believe they're wrong.

Whether they admit it or not and no matter how much of a "logical thinker" they are, all humans think and reason on an emotional foundation. Therefore it makes since that the best way to win atheists and other unbelievers to Christ is by showing them the love of Christ.

It really bothers me that some (I think most) Christians start name calling and bullying when they get angry in a debate. That's not at all going to win people to Christ.

Instead of doing things the same way our non-Christian opponents in debates are doing, maybe we should try doing things differently. Be in the world but not of the world.

Just a thought.
You are right. I also believe that God opens eyes and hearts to the truth of who Christ is. I don’t believe there is anything wrong with sharing truth based upon apologetics, but ultimately a person needs to be seeking the truth about God by God opening their eyes and hearts. I surely can’t say how all that works more than that. I do listen to a blog called “Unbelievable” out of the UK which brings Christians and skeptics and unbelievers together to debate Christianity. But it is done with a moderator and generally very politely. There are many seekers/ agnostics who follow it. I’m sure God can use it to be seeds to lead people to true faith. But the arguing and name calling I see sometimes online with these discussions by those on the Christian side of the debate is deplorable, absolutely.
 
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While I partly agree with what you are saying, the reason why we engage in debate with those who would challenge our faith is not necessarily because we think that they might be won over with prevailing arguments although that is always possible, but so that others are not led astray by their lies and their lies can be very elaborate and cleverly crafted so as to seem believable.

It is also a great opportunity for those listening in on the debate to examine the facts of both sides with the hopes that they will be convinced that the facts side with our faith and that the faith we have in Christ is a faith also founded in reason and logic.

In a setting such as this forum, there are many people visiting this site who are seeking God but amongst the honest seekers are those who, in short, with their crafted arguments who come here with no other purpose but to turn others away from the faith who otherwise might receive Christ and to overthrow the faith of those who are already Christians, especially those who might be new in the faith.

It is for the sake of those seeking and for the purpose of solidifying the faith of those already following Christ that we engage in debate for in doing so, we are, as the scriptures say, pulling down strong holds, casting down imaginations and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ. (2 Cor. 10:4-5) but if we shy away from debate, then we fail to contend for the faith as we are commanded. (Jude 3)

I would also agree that there are those unbelievers who will never be persuaded by even the most undeniably convincing arguments on behalf of Christ due to their enmity against their Maker, but if they are found spreading their lies for the purpose of keeping from repentance those who otherwise might turn to Christ and causing those in Christ to abandon the faith, then under such circumstances, they must be confronted so as to undo their lies in the minds of them who might be led astray.

And just as you do, I find it a disgrace on the part of those professors of the faith who resort to name-calling and bullying tactics for in doing so, they are showing their case to be weak. It is bad enough that those are the tactics the unbelieving resort to when they are on the losing end, so is it any wonder that they would perceive themselves on the prevailing end of the debate when Christians resort to the name-calling and bullying tactics and personal attacks against them?

Resort to name-calling, bullying, and shaming in a debate and you’ve already lost.
I like the points you make.

About the verse, 2 Cor. 10:4-5 . I always thought that refereed to my own thoughts, not the thoughts of others.
 
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Contenders Edge

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I like the points you make.

About the verse, 2 Cor. 10:4-5 . I always thought that refereed to my own thoughts, not the thoughts of others.


“About the verse, 2 Cor. 10:4-5 . I always thought that refereed to my own thoughts, not the thoughts of others.”

That passage can be applicable to both, but contextually speaking, it is about undoing the lies that blind people to the truth of the Gospel and contending with any other barriers in a person’s life that might be keeping them from repentance and those barriers and strong holds can come in various forms.
 
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dms1972

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Sometimes people have a couple of motives in starting a thread, they may want to hear others thoughts on a topic and hope someone will address it in a way that resolves it for them. Or they may want to know more about a matter - in which case its probably better to source a good article or book.

But if the OP on a thread is not really clear on what they are asking, they may begin by seeming to want to talk about one thing but then go on to something else somewhat unrelated...

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...if so and after a few replies to their OP they have not clarified their area of enquiry, then a question or two needs to be asked in a friendly way, this will serve also to see if the OP is still interested and following the discussion. Remember ask in a friendly way, the OP may be just be a novice at putting together a topic for discussion.

If there is no clarification and the first post of the discussion was a bit of a train wreck then there really seems to be little point in people keeping the replies going until the OP clarifies. To me it seems reasonable to give someone a day or two to respond.

Some topics are just not that amenable to forum discussions, they are too wide, or require too much in depth knowledge that most forum posters will not have. Things have to be answerable in a few paragraphs, a page or two at most.

If I see a thread and it has ten pages of replies and not once has the OP replied even to say "Thanks for the replies.", then I assume they were not that interested in the discussion that they started, in which case I don't bother to reply.

A lot more could be said I don't think debate is entirely wrong, but it can be a waste of time.
 
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Sometimes people have a couple of motives in starting a thread, they may want to hear others thoughts on a topic and hope someone will address it in a way that resolves it for them. Or they may want to know more about a matter - in which case its probably better to source a good article or book.

But if the OP on a thread is not really clear on what they are asking, they may begin by seeming to want to talk about one thing but then go on to something else somewhat unrelated...



...if so and after a few replies to their OP they have not clarified their area of enquiry, then a question or two needs to be asked in a friendly way, this will serve also to see if the OP is still interested and following the discussion. Remember ask in a friendly way, the OP may be just be a novice at putting together a topic for discussion.

If there is no clarification and the first post of the discussion was a bit of a train wreck then there really seems to be little point in people keeping the replies going until the OP clarifies. To me it seems reasonable to give someone a day or two to respond.

Some topics are just not that amenable to forum discussions, they are too wide, or require too much in depth knowledge that most forum posters will not have. Things have to be answerable in a few paragraphs, a page or two at most.

If I see a thread and it has ten pages of replies and not once has the OP replied even to say "Thanks for the replies.", then I assume they were not that interested in the discussion that they started, in which case I don't bother to reply.

A lot more could be said I don't think debate is entirely wrong, but it can be a waste of time.[/QUOTE]

Um.. Oops. I wasn't clear because I didn't really know what my motive was in starting this thread, I guess a combination of all the motives you mentioned.
I sort of think that the whole point of "forum discussions" in general is that they don't have any point.
 
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