Sola Fide (Faith Alone) Sets the Record Straight

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The believer of today does not believe that Psalms 19:7-11 can be applied to their life. They just believe in Jesus and that's it. They don't need anything else. But this would be ignoring parts of our Bible, though.
 
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Grip Docility

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I am going to assume most really do not believe the following passage can be applied to their own lives today.

7 "The law of the LORD is perfect, converting the soul: the testimony of the LORD is sure, making wise the simple.
8 The statutes of the LORD are right, rejoicing the heart: the commandment of the LORD is pure, enlightening the eyes.
9 The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: the judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
10 More to be desired are they than gold, yea, than much fine gold: sweeter also than honey and the honeycomb.
11 Moreover by them is thy servant warned: and in keeping of them there is great reward."
(Psalms 19:7-11).​

Yes, I believe this passage is talking about the Old Law (that is no more), but I believe the principle behind God's laws in general remain the same. I believe the truth of this above passage can be applied with the New Covenant Law for believers today.

The LAW IS GOOD, but we are not Good by the Law!

Jesus Crucified every charge the Law has against us in HIS flesh!

Only Satan accuses mankind and self by the Law!

It does not serve God to resurrect dead things! That is what sorcery is! Necromancy! That is the context of the word in true Hebrew study! Jesus is the Only TRUE Resurrection!

When a person resurrects the Law, it’s veracity it handed to Satan to use against them!

Please let go of Self and Rely on Christ! He’s your Savior!

Isaiah 43:11 : Luke 2:11
 
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The believer of today does not believe that Psalms 19:7-11 can be applied to their life. They just believe in Jesus and that's it. They don't need anything else. But this would be ignoring parts of our Bible, though.

The LAW is Good! It reveals our Saviors Perfection!

Isaiah 14:14 is BAD!
 
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Grip Docility

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Again... The OP clearly states:

Faith Alone is not the denial that "Initial Belief"
(In Jesus, being God the Son Who Died, was Buried and Rose on the Third Day)... is our WORK... because Jesus taught us it is John 6:28-29.

Faith Alone is not a secret teaching that suggests we should Increase our Sins because they're paid for like an indulgence.

Faith Alone is not a loop hole to sin without sorrow.

Faith Alone is not a way of denying that Christians are led by The HOLY SPIRIT of Christ to Bear The Galatians 5:22-23.

Faith Alone forever Confesses 1 John 1:8

Faith Alone does not, and never will suggest that Jesus cannot Overcome Horrible struggles with Sin, in our lives, for us.

Faith Alone does not deny that God works miracles.

Faith Alone is our part. (Romans 4:1-6)

Salvation and Sanctification is HIS PART.

All Glory Goes to Jesus!
 
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bcbsr

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Not really, because in another thread you implied that how many times have I lusted or looked at women lately, which means you think that overcoming such a sin is not possible and or it means that a believer does this kind of sin on a regular basis (because they cannot help themselves). If that is not what you meant, when you asked me that, then by all means what do you mean?
Once again making assumptions about things I did not say, just like you make assumptions about what the Bible does not say.
 
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bcbsr

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So believers can apostatize or fall away from the faith after they are saved?
Why would it be called the sin that does not lead to death if they are going down the road into apostasy? Would a sin not unto death really be a lack of belief? Why all the talk about keeping the commandments in the beginning of 1 John 5 is it is talking about having a lack of belief (i.e. apostasy)? That is what doesn't add up in your belief.

Oh, and one can have an assurance that they have (or know) the Son if they find that they are keeping His commandments (1 John 2:3). He that does not keep his commandments, and says he knows him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them (1 John 2:4). Yet, when I talk with OSAS proponents, they say that 1 John 1:8 is some kind of banner flag that they will always be in some kind of sin. But 1 John 1:8 is in the present tense. So are you saying you have sin as per 1 John 1:8? If so, what kind of sin?
 
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bcbsr

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So believers can apostatize or fall away from the faith after they are saved?
And once again - I didn't say that. As I stated, that man was a "brother" in name only and as such had not been born of God.
Why would it be called the sin that does not lead to death if they are going down the road into apostasy?
Because the statement the phrase "there is a sin that leads unto death" (which is apostasy) is not the sin he was committing, as is clearly stated in the verse for anyone to read.
Would a sin not unto death really be a lack of belief?
Apostasy is not simply unbelief, but the intentional rejection of the gospel, having already been made well aware of it. And substituting it was an alternate gospel. (say, a gospel of salvation by works)
Why all the talk about keeping the commandments in the beginning of 1 John 5 is it is talking about having a lack of belief (i.e. apostasy)? That is what doesn't add up in your belief.
The theme of 1JOhn is identifying children of God and distinguishing them from the children of the devil. It's about "what we know" and "how we know it", rather than "how you can become".

"This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands." 1John 5:2
"everyone born of God overcomes the world." 1John 5:4
"Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life." 1John 5:10-12
"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." 1John 5:13
"We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him." 1John 5:18
"We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one." 1John 5:19
"We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true— even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life." 1John 5:20
Yet, when I talk with OSAS proponents, they say that 1 John 1:8 is some kind of banner flag that they will always be in some kind of sin. But 1 John 1:8 is in the present tense. So are you saying you have sin as per 1 John 1:8? If so, what kind of sin?
I'm a OSAS proponent, yet that's not what I am saying about 1JOhn 1:8. Are you once again misrepresenting what I say? 1John 1:18 is talking about those who deny having a sinful nature, which believers still retain according to Gal 5:17
 
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These many people in Matthew 7:22-23 were not genuine believers. Jesus NEVER knew them. You still don’t get it.

Because they did not obey God’s commands.
Again, see 1 John 2:3-4.
 
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And once again - I didn't say that. As I stated, that man was a "brother" in name only and as such had not been born of God.

Because the statement the phrase "there is a sin that leads unto death" (which is apostasy) is not the sin he was committing, as is clearly stated in the verse for anyone to read.

Apostasy is not simply unbelief, but the intentional rejection of the gospel, having already been made well aware of it. And substituting it was an alternate gospel. (say, a gospel of salvation by works)

The theme of 1JOhn is identifying children of God and distinguishing them from the children of the devil. It's about "what we know" and "how we know it", rather than "how you can become".

"This is how we know that we love the children of God: by loving God and carrying out his commands." 1John 5:2
"everyone born of God overcomes the world." 1John 5:4
"Anyone who believes in the Son of God has this testimony in his heart. And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life." 1John 5:10-12
"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." 1John 5:13
"We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin; the one who was born of God keeps him safe, and the evil one cannot harm him." 1John 5:18
"We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one." 1John 5:19
"We know also that the Son of God has come and has given us understanding, so that we may know him who is true. And we are in him who is true— even in his Son Jesus Christ. He is the true God and eternal life." 1John 5:20
I'm a OSAS proponent, yet that's not what I am saying about 1JOhn 1:8. Are you once again misrepresenting what I say? 1John 1:18 is talking about those who deny having a sinful nature, which believers still retain according to Gal 5:17

The context of Galatians 5:17 is Galatians 5:24 that says that they that are Christ’s have crucified the affections and lusts.
 
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Grip Docility

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The context of Galatians 5:17 is Galatians 5:24 that says that they that are Christ’s have crucified the affections and lusts.

Please explain what that means.

Perhaps Galatians 2:20 would be a good start.
 
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bcbsr

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The context of Galatians 5:17 is Galatians 5:24 that says that they that are Christ’s have crucified the affections and lusts.
Gal 5:24 indicates it's a done deal. It uses the historic Aorist tense, indicating an event that has already occurred, which again affirms OSAS.
 
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Danthemailman

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Right, not obeying God's commandments is the key to not knowing the Lord (See 1 John 2:3-4). That is why they did not know Jesus because they were working iniquity (or sin). That is why Jesus said to depart from me, you that work iniquity.
You have it backwards and are confusing cause and effect. Keeping God's commandments is the effect of knowing the Lord and not the cause. Failing to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ by trusting in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation is the cause of not knowing the Lord. (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 11:17; 13:39; 16:31). Our relationship with the Lord begins the moment that we BELIEVE.

John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge.

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have (past tense with ongoing present results) come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. BTW to "keep" His commandments does not mean sinless, perfect obedience to all of His commandments 100% of the time, as sinless perfectionists who are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness teach. (1 John 1:8-10)

1 John 3:4 says that the breaking of the law is sin.
Iniquity is sin.
So they are breaking God's laws.
That is why they are told to depart from Jesus.
Apart from the blood of Christ and the righteousness of God, the sins of these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 remains and that's why they are told to depart from Jesus. They have not placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ for salvation but instead were trusting in their works for salvation. Apart from the blood of Christ and the righteousness of God, we would all be seen in the eyes of God as workers of iniquity because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23; 6:23) Faith in Jesus Christ is the solution to our sin problem and not the law. (Romans 3:24-28; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9)

Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but BELIEVES on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

Romans 10:1 - Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved.
2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who BELIEVES.

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
 
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Because they did not obey God’s commands.
Again, see 1 John 2:3-4.
Because they did not BELIEVE. See John 3:18. Again, 1 John 2:3-4 is the effect and not the cause of knowing or not knowing the Lord. You are teaching salvation by works.
 
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Because they did not BELIEVE. See John 3:18. Again, 1 John 2:3-4 is the effect and not the cause of knowing or not knowing the Lord. You are teaching salvation by works.

No. There is no such thing as "Salvation by Works Alone-ism" anymore than there is "Salvation by Belief Alone-ism." Even you do not truly believe in "Salvation by Belief Alone-ism" because you believe some level of holiness and good works needs to be present in a believer's life in order to show a genuine faith. This is why it is: "Salvation by God's Grace Through Faith + Works of Faith." We are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace, and then works of faith is the next step or stage in the salvation process. Ephesians 2:8-9 is talking about "Initial Salvation" because Ephesians 2:1 is saying we are quickened (i.e. a one time event), and it is saying we are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ; For gifts are received one time. Belief is were it starts. Ephesians 2:9 says we are not saved by works so that no man can boast. This would be "Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism" because a person can only boast in themselves when it comes to a man directed work. But if they believed God did the good work in them after they are saved by God's grace, then they would boast in God and not in themselves. Ephesians 2:10 switches gears and refers to a different kind of work. They are God directed works because they are the kind of works that we are created unto Christ Jesus to do.

James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17). He will show his faith by his works (James 2:18). James says we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). In Matthew 7:23, Jesus did not say, "Depart from me you that do not believe in my finished work alone." Jesus says depart from me you that work iniquity. Iniquity is sin or lawlessness. So yes. You have to keep God's commands as a part of eternal life. Even Jesus taught this in other places. In Luke 10:25-28 Jesus agreed with the lawyer on the truth that to love God and love your neighbor is to inherit eternal life. Jesus did not correct the lawyer on the truth that to love God and to love your neighbor is to inherit eternal life. Jesus did not say.... "Wrong Lawyer!" "You cannot love God and love your neighbor. It is impossible." Actually, Jesus said to the lawyer to do this and you will live. The doing part is to love God and to love your neighbor. That is how we are to live or have eternal life. The words of Jesus are so simple that if they are received like a child, they are simple and easy to understand. Jesus said we must be converted and become as little children (Matthew 18:3).

Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).
Jesus did not say that if you love me, believe in my finished work and do not focus so much on worrying about sin in your life (like many OSAS proponents say).
The words of Jesus say the exact opposite of what the Belief Alone Proponent says.
But is loving Jesus even a requirement for salvation?
Yes.
Paul says if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ let him be accursed (See: 1 Corinthians 16:22).
But the Belief Alone Propnent says that all you need to do is believe and you are saved.
I choose to believe the Bible and not Belief Alone Proponents who attempt to change the plain meaning of what the Bible says.
 
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Grip Docility

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No. There is no such thing as "Salvation by Works Alone-ism" anymore than there is "Salvation by Belief Alone-ism." Even you do not truly believe in "Salvation by Belief Alone-ism" because you believe some level of holiness and good works needs to be present in a believer's life in order to show a genuine faith. This is why it is: "Salvation by God's Grace Through Faith + Works of Faith." We are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace, and then works of faith is the next step or stage in the salvation process. Ephesians 2:8-9 is talking about "Initial Salvation" because Ephesians 2:1 is saying we are quickened (i.e. a one time event), and it is saying we are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ; For gifts are received one time. Belief is were it starts. Ephesians 2:9 says we are not saved by works so that no man can boast. This would be "Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism" because a person can only boast in themselves when it comes to a man directed work. But if they believed God did the good work in them after they are saved by God's grace, then they would boast in God and not in themselves. Ephesians 2:10 switches gears and refers to a different kind of work. They are God directed works because they are the kind of works that we are created unto Christ Jesus to do.

James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17). He will show his faith by his works (James 2:18). James says we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). In Matthew 7:23, Jesus did not say, "Depart from me you that do not believe in my finished work alone." Jesus says depart from me you that work iniquity. Iniquity is sin or lawlessness. So yes. You have to keep God's commands as a part of eternal life. Even Jesus taught this in other places. In Luke 10:25-28 Jesus agreed with the lawyer on the truth that to love God and love your neighbor is to inherit eternal life. Jesus did not correct the lawyer on the truth that to love God and to love your neighbor is to inherit eternal life. Jesus did not say.... "Wrong Lawyer!" "You cannot love God and love your neighbor. It is impossible." Actually, Jesus said to the lawyer to do this and you will live. The doing part is to love God and to love your neighbor. That is how we are to live or have eternal life. The words of Jesus are so simple that if they are received like a child, they are simple and easy to understand. Jesus said we must be converted and become as little children (Matthew 18:3).

Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).
Jesus did not say that if you love me, believe in my finished work and do not focus so much on worrying about sin in your life (like many OSAS proponents say).
The words of Jesus say the exact opposite of what the Belief Alone Proponent says.
But is loving Jesus even a requirement for salvation?
Yes.
Paul says if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ let him be accursed (See: 1 Corinthians 16:22).

Jason,

People that incorporate works into Salvation pretend it’s a noble cause, then 2 weeks down the path, they turn scripture into commands of men. That’s written in the very blood of Jesus.
 
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anna ~ grace

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So, just wondering.....

Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East, and a growing number of Christians who are not affiliated with any Church or specific label reject Sola Fidé, the belief that grace alone saves us through faith alone.

Are such people, in your eyes, not Christians?
 
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anna ~ grace

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No. There is no such thing as "Salvation by Works Alone-ism" anymore than there is "Salvation by Belief Alone-ism." Even you do not truly believe in "Salvation by Belief Alone-ism" because you believe some level of holiness and good works needs to be present in a believer's life in order to show a genuine faith. This is why it is: "Salvation by God's Grace Through Faith + Works of Faith." We are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace, and then works of faith is the next step or stage in the salvation process. Ephesians 2:8-9 is talking about "Initial Salvation" because Ephesians 2:1 is saying we are quickened (i.e. a one time event), and it is saying we are saved by God's grace through faith in Christ; For gifts are received one time. Belief is were it starts. Ephesians 2:9 says we are not saved by works so that no man can boast. This would be "Man Directed Works Alone Salvationism" because a person can only boast in themselves when it comes to a man directed work. But if they believed God did the good work in them after they are saved by God's grace, then they would boast in God and not in themselves. Ephesians 2:10 switches gears and refers to a different kind of work. They are God directed works because they are the kind of works that we are created unto Christ Jesus to do.

James says faith without works is dead (James 2:17). He will show his faith by his works (James 2:18). James says we are justified by works and not by faith alone (James 2:24). In Matthew 7:23, Jesus did not say, "Depart from me you that do not believe in my finished work alone." Jesus says depart from me you that work iniquity. Iniquity is sin or lawlessness. So yes. You have to keep God's commands as a part of eternal life. Even Jesus taught this in other places. In Luke 10:25-28 Jesus agreed with the lawyer on the truth that to love God and love your neighbor is to inherit eternal life. Jesus did not correct the lawyer on the truth that to love God and to love your neighbor is to inherit eternal life. Jesus did not say.... "Wrong Lawyer!" "You cannot love God and love your neighbor. It is impossible." Actually, Jesus said to the lawyer to do this and you will live. The doing part is to love God and to love your neighbor. That is how we are to live or have eternal life. The words of Jesus are so simple that if they are received like a child, they are simple and easy to understand. Jesus said we must be converted and become as little children (Matthew 18:3).

Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).
Jesus did not say that if you love me, believe in my finished work and do not focus so much on worrying about sin in your life (like many OSAS proponents say).
The words of Jesus say the exact opposite of what the Belief Alone Proponent says.
But is loving Jesus even a requirement for salvation?
Yes.
Paul says if any man loves not the Lord Jesus Christ let him be accursed (See: 1 Corinthians 16:22).
But the Belief Alone Propnent says that all you need to do is believe and you are saved.
I choose to believe the Bible and not Belief Alone Proponents who attempt to change the plain meaning of what the Bible says.
Jason, you rock. Keep it up, friend.
 
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You have it backwards and are confusing cause and effect. Keeping God's commandments is the effect of knowing the Lord and not the cause. Failing to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ by trusting in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation is the cause of not knowing the Lord. (John 3:15,16,18; Acts 10:43; 11:17; 13:39; 16:31). Our relationship with the Lord begins the moment that we BELIEVE.

John 1:12 - But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name:

John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him, not merely theoretical knowledge.

1 John 2:3 - By this we know that we have (past tense with ongoing present results) come to know Him, (already know Him/already saved/demonstrative evidence) if we "keep" (Greek word "tereo" - guard, observe, watch over) His commandments. BTW to "keep" His commandments does not mean sinless, perfect obedience to all of His commandments 100% of the time, as sinless perfectionists who are suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness teach. (1 John 1:8-10)

Apart from the blood of Christ and the righteousness of God, the sins of these many people in Matthew 7:22-23 remains and that's why they are told to depart from Jesus. They have not placed their faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ for salvation but instead were trusting in their works for salvation. Apart from the blood of Christ and the righteousness of God, we would all be seen in the eyes of God as workers of iniquity because all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. (Romans 3:23; 6:23) Faith in Jesus Christ is the solution to our sin problem and not the law. (Romans 3:24-28; Galatians 2:16; Ephesians 2:8,9)

Romans 4:5 - But to him who does not work but BELIEVES on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness, 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works.

Romans 10:1 - Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved.
2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who BELIEVES.

Philippians 3:9 - and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.

Again, I don't believe in Salvation by Works Alone-ism. So there is no confusion on my believing that we are initially and ultimately saved by God's grace through faith. A believer cannot obey the Lord unless they first believe in Jesus as their Savior, and believe the gospel (i.e. to believe in His death and resurrection for salvation) via by faith. Most of the time, this involves seeking forgiveness of one's sins with the Lord Jesus Christ, as well. This is the Justification Process. This is where salvation starts. This is where we stand our ground involving our salvation. It the foundation upon which we build. Jesus. Works of faith and or holy living is the next step or stage in the salvation process (i.e. Sanctification by God doing the good work through us). If a person is not entering into this next step or stage of salvation, they not making good on their prayer to the Lord or in truly believing in Jesus as their Savior.

God's grace teaches us to deny ungodliness, and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12).
 
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Grip Docility

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So, just wondering.....

Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Assyrian Church of the East, and a growing number of Christians who are not affiliated with any Church or theology reject Sola Fidé, the belief that grace alone saves us through faith alone.

Are such people, in your eyes, not Christians?

It takes much wrestling over verbiage Chosen, but I have yet to meet a Catholic or Orthodox Believer (That Knows And understands their catechism) that says anything but Jesus Saves.

As for who a Christian is... I have no right to say who is and who isn’t.

I ask people if Christs Life, Death, Burial and Resurrection is sufficient to save a person and listen for any “yeah but’s”.

I don’t consider that person unsaved (at “yeah but”) or if they go beyond “yeah but” and even incorporate works of the flesh into their salvation. I do however challenge their premise with scripture and note Paul’s words about “any other Gospel”.

Sadly, the hard core works based refuse to say they are saved. They honestly say this and it upsets me. By their own mouth they deny Christ’s sufficiency to save.
 
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