Covenant with Abraham - In Essence, a Christian Covenant?

msortwell

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I am not sure I am following you, when you say prophecies declared by Gods people?
I do think there might be a distinction made concerning prophetic utterances in the law.

Mt 11:13 For all the prophets and the law prophesied until John.

The Torah accurately documents the sure prophecies regarding what God had ordained would come. This is what is recorded in Gen 49. But this is not the same as the prophets themselves being the cause of what would come.

However, in 2 Sam 7 God declares what He himself is going to do. His declaration is the cause. It is not merely true. It is the reason that it will come to pass - similar to when he said, "Let there be light."
 
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Butch5

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I don't know how to make it more plain. There are two covenants made with Abraham. One is temporal and one is eternal. One to the natural seed and another to the children of promise. Some of his natural seed like David had a double portion. David inherited the throne of the earthly worldly kingdom, as well as he will inherit in the heavenly kingdom. All in Christ share in the heavenly inheritance.

Ah, now I see what you're getting at. What exactly us the heavenly kingdom?
 
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JLB777

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Consider the following . . .

Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.(Gal 3:16-17 - KJV)

τοῦτο δὲ λέγω διαθήκην προκεκυρωμένην ὑπὸ τοῦ θεοῦ εἰς Χριστὸν ὁ μετὰ ἔτη τετρακόσια καὶ τριάκοντα γεγονὼς νόμος οὐκ ἀκυροῖ εἰς τὸ καταργῆσαι τὴν ἐπαγγελίαν (Gal 3:17 - Textus Receptus)

Do you consider the Textus Receptus to be incorrect in its inclusion of εἰς Χριστὸν (which is carried into the KJV)?

Is the inclusion of this reference to Christ inconsistent with the truth taught in the balance of Galations 3? And, if the inclusion of the reference to Christ in Galation 3:17 is consistent with the balance of Galations 3, would that not make the Abrahamic Covenant, in a sense, a Christian covenant?


The New Covenant is the “renewed” Abrahamic Covenant which the Lord Jesus made with Abraham.



When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.” Genesis 17:1-2


This is the Lord who became flesh, and died on the cross for our sins.


We, through faith in Christ, have been grated into this covenant that has been renewed or refreshed, and become the New Covenant.


We are now part of the Israel of God, and members of the household of faith.


Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
Ephesians 2:19


Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith. Galatians 6:10



JLB
 
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JLB777

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But the land was promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and they never received it.

Then said the high priest, Are these things so?
2 And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran,
3 And said unto him, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and come into the land which I shall shew thee.
4 Then came he out of the land of the Chaldaeans, and dwelt in Charran: and from thence, when his father was dead, he removed him into this land, wherein ye now dwell.
5 And he gave him none inheritance in it, no, not so much as to set his foot on: yet he promised that he would give it to him for a possession, and to his seed after him, when as yet he had no child. (Acts 7:1-5 KJV)

The land promise has not been fulfilled as these men didn't receive it. The only way they can receive it is in the Resurrection.


They died “in faith” not having received the promises... looking forward to something better.


These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them, embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth.
Hebrews 11:13


Women received their dead raised to life again.
Others were tortured, not accepting deliverance, that they might obtain a better resurrection. Still others had trial of mockings and scourgings, yes, and of chains and imprisonment. They were stoned, they were sawn in two, were tempted, were slain with the sword. They wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins, being destitute, afflicted, tormented— of whom the world was not worthy. They wandered in deserts and mountains, in dens and caves of the earth.
And all these, having obtained a good testimony through faith, did not receive the promise, God having provided something better for us, that they should not be made perfect apart from us.
Hebrews 11:35-40




JLB
 
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JLB777

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The way I read this is that there is a distinction between the physical and spiritual elements of the covenant. The spiritual element applies to Christians, namely being right with God by faith in Christ, which Abraham was granted, and how he became a father of many nations as Paul points out. But the physical elements of the covenant do not apply to us. For example, we did not inherit the land that was given to his descendants.

I think the confusion between the two dimensions has caused the controversy between orthodoxy and dispensationalism. But that's off topic.
TD:)


Abraham is the first member of the Church.




JLB
 
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msortwell

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(NKJV) Acts 26:6 And now I stand and am judged for the hope of the promise made by God to our fathers. 7 To this promise our twelve tribes, earnestly serving God night and day, hope to attain . . .

So what PROMISE is Paul referring to? Paul is asserting that the thing for which he is being condemned for, by the Jews is precisely the thing which is the fulfilment made to the Jewish patriarchs!

Paul is not being persecuted because he has left the true teachings of OT Judaism. He is being persecuted because he is believing the true teachings of OT Judaism.
 
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ralliann

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The New Covenant is the “renewed” Abrahamic Covenant which the Lord Jesus made with Abraham.



When Abram was ninety-nine years old, the Lord appeared to Abram and said to him, “I am Almighty God; walk before Me and be blameless. And I will make My covenant between Me and you, and will multiply you exceedingly.” Genesis 17:1-2


This is the Lord who became flesh, and died on the cross for our sins.


We, through faith in Christ, have been grated into this covenant that has been renewed or refreshed, and become the New Covenant.


We are now part of the Israel of God, and members of the household of faith.


Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God,
Ephesians 2:19


Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all, especially to those who are of the household of faith. Galatians 6:10



JLB
Why would the eternal covenant need renewal?
 
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JLB777

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Why would the eternal covenant need renewal?


Better covenant based on better promises, established by the blood of Jesus Christ.


But now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. Hebrews 8:6




JLB
 
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msortwell

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Better covenant based on better promises, established by the blood of Jesus Christ.

Beut now He has obtained a more excellent ministry, inasmuch as He is also Mediator of a better covenant, which was established on better promises. Hebrews 8:6

JLB

Study of Hebrews should make it clear that the Old Covenant compared to a better covenant is the Mosaic Covenant, not the Abrahamic Covenant (AC).

Much of the Mosaic Covenant was set aside under the manifested priesthood of Christ. The AC is simply fulfilled in the New Covenant.
 
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msortwell

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I agree with msortwell as well. But I still do not understand why the eternal covenant would need to be renewed?

I don't recall the term "renew" being applied in reference to the relationship of the AC to the New Covenant. But it is not UNLIKE the sense in which a faithful married couple might opt to renew thier marriage vows, it is more of a reaffirmation of a standing covenant.

But it is not for NO reason that such a step may be taken. In the AC/NC relationship, a declaration is made that this NC is more a fulfillment of the AC than a new direction.
 
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JLB777

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I agree with msortwell as well. But I still do not understand why the eternal covenant would need to be renewed?


That’s what the new covenant is.

The renewed or refreshed covenant, with Christ Jesus throughHis blood.


It’s a better covenant based on better promises.


The Baptism with the Holy Spirit for one.



JLB
 
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OldWiseGuy

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I agree that Christ is the righteous son of David, but I wouldn't say Christs kingship was based on the covenant made with David. The old covenant imo gave types and shadows of the reality of the Abrahamic promises. Certainly God made a covenant with David but that is based upon the following blessings from Jacob...……..The royal line prophesied here. David was chosen to be the particular recipient of it.
Gen 49:28 All these are the twelve tribes of Israel: and this is it that their father spake unto them, and blessed them; every one according to his blessing he blessed them.

Ge 49:1 And Jacob called unto his sons, and said, Gather yourselves together, that I may tell you that which shall befall you in the last days.
2 Gather yourselves together, and hear, ye sons of Jacob; and hearken unto Israel your father.
8 Judah, thou art he whom thy brethren shall praise: thy hand shall be in the neck of thine enemies; thy father’s children shall bow down before thee.
9 Judah is a lion’s whelp: from the prey, my son, thou art gone up: he stooped down, he couched as a lion, and as an old lion; who shall rouse him up?
10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
11 Binding his foal unto the vine, and his ass’s colt unto the choice vine; he washed his garments in wine, and his clothes in the blood of grapes:

Continue to the other part of the Abrahamic promise, called the birthright.

1 Chronicles 5:2
For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph's:)


22 Joseph is a fruitful bough, even a fruitful bough by a well; whose branches run over the wall:

23 The archers have sorely grieved him, and shot at him, and hated him:

24 But his bow abode in strength, and the arms of his hands were made strong by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob; (from thence is the shepherd, the stone of Israel:)

25 Even by the God of thy father, who shall help thee; and by the Almighty, who shall bless thee with blessings of heaven above, blessings of the deep that lieth under, blessings of the breasts, and of the womb:

26 The blessings of thy father have prevailed above the blessings of my progenitors unto the utmost bound of the everlasting hills: they shall be on the head of Joseph, and on the crown of the head of him that was separate from his brethren.


The birthright promise was then transferred to the sons of Joseph by Jacob, who he adopted as his own. Ephraim and Manasseh were to share the blessing, both becoming great nations in the last days. Genesis 48
 
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ralliann

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Continue to the other part of the Abrahamic promise, called the birthright.

1 Chronicles 5:2
For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him came the chief ruler; but the birthright was Joseph's:)


What does this mean? "the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright"
1chron. 5:1 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father’s bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright.
 
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OldWiseGuy

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What does this mean? "the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright"
1chron. 5:1 Now the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he was the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father’s bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright.

It actually means that the birthright is not to be reckoned after the genealogy. Reuben was the firstborn and should have received the birthright promise. However he 'defiled his father's bed' by laying with Bilhah, Jacob's concubine. Perhaps Laban's deception regarding Leah, Reuben's mother was involved as well. Anyway Joseph was actually the firstborn of Jacob's love, Rachel. I believe God honored that with the right of the first born going eventually to Joseph.
 
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ralliann

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It actually means that the birthright is not to be reckoned after the genealogy. Reuben was the firstborn and should have received the birthright promise. However he 'defiled his father's bed' by laying with Bilhah, Jacob's concubine. Perhaps Laban's deception regarding Leah, Reuben's mother was involved as well. Anyway Joseph was actually the firstborn of Jacob's love, Rachel. I believe God honored that with the right of the first born going eventually to Joseph.
Thanks. It just seems an odd way to phrase it.
 
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ralliann

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I don't recall the term "renew" being applied in reference to the relationship of the AC to the New Covenant. But it is not UNLIKE the sense in which a faithful married couple might opt to renew thier marriage vows, it is more of a reaffirmation of a standing covenant.

But it is not for NO reason that such a step may be taken. In the AC/NC relationship, a declaration is made that this NC is more a fulfillment of the AC than a new direction.
I do not think renewal is applicable. In either the modern sense of marriage vows, or in the sense of the covenants. Gods swearing of an oath settled it once and for all. Just like the melchizedk priesthood, the Lord swear and will not repent. It is a sure thing.
 
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