Why the Antichrist cannot be the Muslim Mahdi

Grip Docility

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We Christians are the continuation of all the faithful people of God since Abel.
Israel was the name given to Jacob, as he prevailed for God. It literally means; One who overcomes Satan and is victorious for God. We see those Victorious ones in each of the 7 Churchs of Revelation.
In Isaiah 62:1-5, we will be given a new name and will live in our heritage of the holy Land. Colossians 1:12, Romans 9:24-26

I do believe you are missing that there were 7 churches and 12 tribes. I also, IMO, am certain that you are ignoring the context of Romans 9-11

Huh? This verse has no relevance to the issue of who is the Israel of God.

It does if you believe its context. Also, Galatians 6:16 is the only speculative proof verse, that you could use, but it hinges on 3 kai's that lean my way, as well.

BTW, I don't like the Satanic symbol in your avatar.

What are your feelings on the holocaust?
 
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Grip Docility

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Who is saying that about the 7 year peace covenant being in the hadiths? It sounds like a Christian source, imo, about what the muslims believe.

The confirming of the covenant for 7 years, it is widespread among Christian end times commentators that it is a peace treaty of some sort, involving Israel.

Which part of the rationale is based on Daniel 8:25, that the person
destroys many be peace.

The interpretation of it being a peace treaty in Daniel 9:27 is wrong.

Back in Moses's day, Moses made it a law that all future leaders will (in effect) confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on a 7 year interval on the feast of trumpets from the place of God's choosing, by making a speech addressing the nation of Israel that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel, as theirs forever. Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

The Antichrist, playing the part of the perceived Jewish messiah, will make the speech and begin the 7 years.

It is something the Mahdi would not, could not, do, obviously.

Islamic site with citation from Hadiths...

Identification of the Prophesized Imam Mahdi

"Abu Sa'id al-Khudari(RA) narrated that Prophet(SAW) said:

Severe calamity from the direction of their ruler will befall my people during the Last Days. It will be a calamity which, in severity, shall be unprecedented. It will be so violent that the earth with injustice and corruption will shrivel for its inhabitants. The believers will not find refuge from oppression. At that time God will send a man from my family to fill the earth with justice and equity just as it is filled with injustice and tyranny. The dwellers of the heavens and the earth will be pleased with him. The earth will bring forth all that grows for him, and the heavens will pour down rains in abundance. He will live among the people for seven or nine years. From all the good that God will bestow on the inhabitants of the earth, the dead will wish to come to life again.
(Ibn Hajar, al-Sawa'iq al-muharriqa, P. 161; Yanabi' al-mawadda, Vol. 2, P. 177)"

The following is a debate type site that answers Muslims... and utilizes Hadith quotes.

"Chapter Four

Rasulullah [Muhammad] said: “There will be four peace agreements between you and the Romans [Christians]. The fourth agreement will be mediated through a person who will be from the progeny of Hadrat Haroon [Honorable Aaron – Moses’ brother] and will be upheld for seven years. (Emphasis mine) 28

It appears that the period of this seven year peace agreement will likewise be the period of the Mahdi’s reign. While there are a few traditions that specify that the Mahdi will reign on the earth for as much as eight or possibly even nine years, most traditions state that the time of his reign will be seven years.

The Prophet said… He will divide the property, and will govern the people by the Sunnah of their Prophet and establish Islam on Earth. He will remain seven years, then die, and the Muslims will pray over him. (Emphasis mine) 29

The Prophet said: The Mahdi… will fill the earth with equity and justice as it was filled with oppression and tyranny, and he will rule for seven years. (Emphasis mine) 30"
 
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keras

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You make the usual foolish error of conflating the Sixth Seal with the GT.
Those people who John sees in Rev 7, are Christians who stood firm in their faith during the terrifying CME of the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath.
Your belief conflicts with the given sequence of the Seals, Trumpets and Bowls, culminating in the Return of Jesus.
 
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keras

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I do believe you are missing that there were 7 churches and 12 tribes. I also, IMO, am certain that you are ignoring the context of Romans 9-11
There is only ONE people of God. John 17:20-23
I know Romans 9-11 very well. You have your own take on those scriptures in order to suit your beliefs.
It does if you believe its context. Also, Galatians 6:16 is the only speculative proof verse, that you could use, but it hinges on 3 kai's that lean my way, as well.
Making out that the Jewish State of Israel is the Israel of God, is quite ridiculous, as they reject Jesus.
What are your feelings on the holocaust?
A terrible and Satanic slaughter of innocent people.
But regarding the so called Star of David, it is a Satanic symbol; google it and if you are a Christian, you should have nothing todo with it.
 
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keras

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The Prophet said: The Mahdi… will fill the earth with equity and justice as it was filled with oppression and tyranny, and he will rule for seven years.
Likely to happen?
This is a Christian forum, the Koran has no place here.
 
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Willing-heart

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Who is saying that about the 7 year peace covenant being in the hadiths? It sounds like a Christian source, imo, about what the muslims believe.

The confirming of the covenant for 7 years, it is widespread among Christian end times commentators that it is a peace treaty of some sort, involving Israel.

Which part of the rationale is based on Daniel 8:25, that the person
destroys many be peace.

However, the interpretation of it being a peace treaty in Daniel 9:27 is wrong.

Back in Moses's day, Moses made it a law that all future leaders will (in effect) confirm the Mt. Sinai covenant on a 7 year interval on the feast of trumpets from the place of God's choosing, by making a speech addressing the nation of Israel that God gave the land of Israel to the children of Israel, as theirs forever. Deuteronomy 31:9-13.

The Antichrist, playing the part of the perceived Jewish messiah, will make the speech and begin the 7 years.

It is something the Mahdi would not, could not, do, obviously.

What I'm saying is something that was explained by an Islamic scholar Dr. Abul Hassan. Have a read of this books which tells you more:

 
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Grip Docility

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Likely to happen?
This is a Christian forum, the Koran has no place here.

By ignorance of the enemies intention, many will perish.

If words written in another book that is venerated by wicked theology... happens to line up with things the Enemy is foretold to do in the scripture of Jesus... shouldn’t we be aware?
 
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Grip Docility

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There is only ONE people of God. John 17:20-23
I know Romans 9-11 very well. You have your own take on those scriptures in order to suit your beliefs.

Making out that the Jewish State of Israel is the Israel of God, is quite ridiculous, as they reject Jesus.

A terrible and Satanic slaughter of innocent people.
But regarding the so called Star of David, it is a Satanic symbol; google it and if you are a Christian, you should have nothing todo with it.

Sincerely, we are discussing non Essential doctrine and sharing our opinions...

I am Jewish by blood and your statement about the Star of David was a little bracing.

We are sharing opinions that grand statements of “you’re wrong and I’m right” don’t suit, well.

I agree to disagree with you and count you my brother in Christ.

All blessings in Jesus Christ to you.
 
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keras

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By ignorance of the enemies intention, many will perish.

If words written in another book that is venerated by wicked theology... happens to line up with things the Enemy is foretold to do in the scripture of Jesus... shouldn’t we be aware?
I have read The Koran. It is a very boring and repetitious book.
The theme of it is for Islam to take over the world and to kill or enslave all the Jews and Christians. They make no secret of their intentions.
But we don't have to do anything other than try to convert them; which is actually a practical impossibility.
God will destroy them, as is comprehensively prophesied. Isaiah 34:5-8, Jeremiah 49:34-37, +
 
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keras

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I am Jewish by blood and your statement about the Star of David was a little bracing.
Sorry to disturb you, but your symbol is Satanic;
What does the Star of David represent and what is its symbolism?

The Star (Shield) of David, also called Magen David, is a relatively new Jewish symbol. Supposedly, it represents the shape of King David's shield (but there is no rabbinic support for that claim).

Is there any theological significance to the symbol? Some claim that the top triangle strives upward, toward God, while the lower triangle strives downward, toward the real world. Others note that the intertwining represents the inseparable nature of the Jewish people. Still others claim the three sides stand for the three types of Jews: Kohanim, Levites and Israel. A similar claim could be made for the three major movements. However, these theories have little basis in historical fact.

What is the history?

Intertwined equilateral triangles is a common symbol in the Middle East and North Africa, where it supposedly brings good luck. Originally, it was primarily associated with magic or family/community insignia. Its geometric symmetry made the symbol popular in many cultures. A common claim is that the upward triangle represents female sexuality, and the downward triangle represents male sexuality; combined, they symbolize unity and harmony. In alchemy, the two triangles symbolize "fire" and "water"; together, they represent the reconciliation of opposites.

The menorah served as the primary Jewish symbol, not the star.

Some historians have attempted to trace the star back to King David; others trace it to Rabbi Akiva and the Bar Kokhba ("son of the star") rebellion (135 CE); still others trace it to the kabbalists, especially Rabbi Isaac Luria (16th century). However, there is no documented evidence of these claim. Instead, evidence suggests that the early use of the star was limited to "practical Kabbalah", probably dating back to the 6th century. It is connected in legend with the "Seal of Solomon," which was a signet ring used by Solomon to supposedly control demons and spirits.The original ring was inscribed with the Tetragrammaton; but medieval amulets imitating the ring substituted the six-pointed star or five-pointed star, often accompanied by rampant lions. Hence, the star was called the "Seal of Solomon."

In any case, over time, the star replaced this menorah, while the five-pointed pentagram became identified with the Seal of Solomon. The star was also widely regarded as a messianic symbol, because of its legendary connection with David, ancestor of the Messiah. On Sabbath eve, German Jews would light a star-shaped brass oil lamp called a Judenstern (Jewish star), emblematic of the idea that Shabbat was a foretaste of the Messianic Age.

The star has achieved its status as the most common and universally recognized sign of Judaism and Jewish identity only since 1800. In the 17th century, it became a popular practice to put Magen Davids on the outside of synagogues, to identify them as Jewish houses of worship in much the same way that a cross identified a Christian house of worship. In Vienna, the Jewish quarter was separated from the Christian quarter by a boundary stone inscribed with a hexagram on one side and a cross on the other, the first instance of the six-pointed star being used to represent Judaism as a whole, rather than an individual community.

The star gained additional popularity as a symbol of Judaism when it was adopted as the emblem of the Zionist movement in 1897. Theodor Herzl chose the Star of David because it was so well known and also because it had no religious associations. In time, it appeared in the center of the flag of the new Jewish state of Israel and has become associated with national redemption. The symbol continued to be controversial for many years afterward. When the modern state of Israel was founded, there was much debate over whether this symbol should be used on the flag.

During the Holocaust, the Nazis chose the yellow star as an identifying badge required on the garments of all Jews. After the war, Jews turned this symbol of humiliation and death into a badge of honour.

Nowadays, the Star of David is the most universally recognized symbol of the Jewish people, even though it has no religious content or scriptural basis.



The Star of David

Opposition to the hexagram star symbol necessitated significant revisionist propaganda in order to transform it into an acceptable Jewish symbol. The saying: "If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it" is attributed to Joseph Goebbels. The often repeated revised explanation for the hexagram star is as follows:

"The two blue stripes represent a tallit or prayer shawl, and both sides of the split Red Sea that the Hebrews walked through as written in the Book of Exodus."



"The Star of David also represents the Jewish identity of Israel, as well as the culture and history of the Israeli people."



In reality; what was the star of Remphan, an Egyptian deity, morphed into the occult Seal of Solomon and the Rothschild Hexagram via the Illuminati Hexagram. I view Magen David as a satanic facade in order to obscure the true demonic history of the Star of Remphan. Even its designation as the shield of David is a misnomer. With no scriptural basis and all the evidence of evil and death attending this symbol prior to the 19th century, the hexagram is surely not God's choice for the symbol of Israel. This symbol does remind me of the propensity for the ancient Israelites to worship the true God and other gods concurrently.

We therefore have the usurper, the so called star or shield of David, competing with the menorah, the original Jewish symbol for precedence.
 
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Grip Docility

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Sorry to disturb you, but your symbol is Satanic;
What does the Star of David represent and what is its symbolism?

The Star (Shield) of David, also called Magen David, is a relatively new Jewish symbol. Supposedly, it represents the shape of King David's shield (but there is no rabbinic support for that claim).

Is there any theological significance to the symbol? Some claim that the top triangle strives upward, toward God, while the lower triangle strives downward, toward the real world. Others note that the intertwining represents the inseparable nature of the Jewish people. Still others claim the three sides stand for the three types of Jews: Kohanim, Levites and Israel. A similar claim could be made for the three major movements. However, these theories have little basis in historical fact.

What is the history?

Intertwined equilateral triangles is a common symbol in the Middle East and North Africa, where it supposedly brings good luck. Originally, it was primarily associated with magic or family/community insignia. Its geometric symmetry made the symbol popular in many cultures. A common claim is that the upward triangle represents female sexuality, and the downward triangle represents male sexuality; combined, they symbolize unity and harmony. In alchemy, the two triangles symbolize "fire" and "water"; together, they represent the reconciliation of opposites.

The menorah served as the primary Jewish symbol, not the star.

Some historians have attempted to trace the star back to King David; others trace it to Rabbi Akiva and the Bar Kokhba ("son of the star") rebellion (135 CE); still others trace it to the kabbalists, especially Rabbi Isaac Luria (16th century). However, there is no documented evidence of these claim. Instead, evidence suggests that the early use of the star was limited to "practical Kabbalah", probably dating back to the 6th century. It is connected in legend with the "Seal of Solomon," which was a signet ring used by Solomon to supposedly control demons and spirits.The original ring was inscribed with the Tetragrammaton; but medieval amulets imitating the ring substituted the six-pointed star or five-pointed star, often accompanied by rampant lions. Hence, the star was called the "Seal of Solomon."

In any case, over time, the star replaced this menorah, while the five-pointed pentagram became identified with the Seal of Solomon. The star was also widely regarded as a messianic symbol, because of its legendary connection with David, ancestor of the Messiah. On Sabbath eve, German Jews would light a star-shaped brass oil lamp called a Judenstern (Jewish star), emblematic of the idea that Shabbat was a foretaste of the Messianic Age.

The star has achieved its status as the most common and universally recognized sign of Judaism and Jewish identity only since 1800. In the 17th century, it became a popular practice to put Magen Davids on the outside of synagogues, to identify them as Jewish houses of worship in much the same way that a cross identified a Christian house of worship. In Vienna, the Jewish quarter was separated from the Christian quarter by a boundary stone inscribed with a hexagram on one side and a cross on the other, the first instance of the six-pointed star being used to represent Judaism as a whole, rather than an individual community.

The star gained additional popularity as a symbol of Judaism when it was adopted as the emblem of the Zionist movement in 1897. Theodor Herzl chose the Star of David because it was so well known and also because it had no religious associations. In time, it appeared in the center of the flag of the new Jewish state of Israel and has become associated with national redemption. The symbol continued to be controversial for many years afterward. When the modern state of Israel was founded, there was much debate over whether this symbol should be used on the flag.

During the Holocaust, the Nazis chose the yellow star as an identifying badge required on the garments of all Jews. After the war, Jews turned this symbol of humiliation and death into a badge of honour.

Nowadays, the Star of David is the most universally recognized symbol of the Jewish people, even though it has no religious content or scriptural basis.



The Star of David

Opposition to the hexagram star symbol necessitated significant revisionist propaganda in order to transform it into an acceptable Jewish symbol. The saying: "If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it" is attributed to Joseph Goebbels. The often repeated revised explanation for the hexagram star is as follows:

"The two blue stripes represent a tallit or prayer shawl, and both sides of the split Red Sea that the Hebrews walked through as written in the Book of Exodus."



"The Star of David also represents the Jewish identity of Israel, as well as the culture and history of the Israeli people."



In reality; what was the star of Remphan, an Egyptian deity, morphed into the occult Seal of Solomon and the Rothschild Hexagram via the Illuminati Hexagram. I view Magen David as a satanic facade in order to obscure the true demonic history of the Star of Remphan. Even its designation as the shield of David is a misnomer. With no scriptural basis and all the evidence of evil and death attending this symbol prior to the 19th century, the hexagram is surely not God's choice for the symbol of Israel. This symbol does remind me of the propensity for the ancient Israelites to worship the true God and other gods concurrently.

We therefore have the usurper, the so called star or shield of David, competing with the menorah, the original Jewish symbol for precedence.

The power of a symbol is in the mind of the superstitious.

I enjoy horror movies, but it is Jesus that exercises demon’s, not holy water or crosses.

When Paul preaches the cross and Christ Crucified... it is allusion to the Gospel, not a physical cross, that saves. There is THEE cross that saves... and it is because of the work Christ accomplished upon it. And yet, it, again is all about Jesus.

My point?

The Star Of David... It’s the symbol of a nation that was born from the ashes of horror. They were forced to wear that Star in shame and slaughter and now they brandish it as a miracle nations symbol.

Like it or not, Israel exists again... and it never has or ever will belong to Satan.

God has seen His Nation and Land accosted by the hands of evil, able to attack because of God’s people that doubted Him. He will rescue her, when the time of His election has come.

You may hate Israel... of land and nation, or just doubt what God has foretold in Romans 11:25-36 ; Zechariah 14 ; Acts Of the Apostles 1 and Joel 3... but I don’t.

I’m a member of the BOC, as you are, too. I have Jesus in my heart as you do, too! (Romans 8:9)

I have no need to theologically usurp the namesake of a people that God has further plans with, to make myself feel more special or more Saved.

I have Jesus! My doctrine works just fine without having to steal the namesake of a people that have suffered at the Devil’s hands, since inception.

Jacob is the Father Of Israel and Moses is it’s head.

Abraham is the Father of the BOC and Jesus is it’s Head.

I have no desire to be drug through the mud of superstition, because someone has to usurp what isn’t theirs to feel important in God’s eyes.

IMO, Israel IS Real. The Bible agrees, too.

Even Prophecy revolves around her still, as the Anti Christ will turn his eyes to deceiving and desecrating her, when his time comes.

I think that many people dislike that Western Eschatology has been chasing its tail, while the answers about who the enemy is have been right under their noses in easy to obtain religious texts of the enemy.

I personally think the arrogance of people to find their nation in scripture has led people to ignore what couldn’t be more plain. This is merely my opinion.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you.
 
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Grip Docility

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I have read The Koran. It is a very boring and repetitious book.
The theme of it is for Islam to take over the world and to kill or enslave all the Jews and Christians. They make no secret of their intentions.
But we don't have to do anything other than try to convert them; which is actually a practical impossibility.
God will destroy them, as is comprehensively prophesied. Isaiah 34:5-8, Jeremiah 49:34-37, +

Which is an impossibility? Have you been reading what’s happening in witness lately? You know better than to say it’s impossible for Christ to work miracles in order to save souls! Come, now! Impossibility...

I suggest David Wood as a reference, because he knows the Hadith and Koran... and is actively engaged in witness to Islam.

No thing is ever impossible with Jesus!
 
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Douggg

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You make the usual foolish error of conflating the Sixth Seal with the GT.
Those people who John sees in Rev 7, are Christians who stood firm in their faith during the terrifying CME of the Day of the Lord's fiery wrath.
No, it is not because of a cme.

It is because they refused to take the mark, the name of the beast, or his number, nor worship the image of the beast during the great tribulation. In Revelation 20:4-6, their bodies are redeemed as the first resurrection of the millennium, for not worshiping the beast, his image, nor taking his mark.

It says great tribulation in the text....

13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

__________________________________________________

What you are doing, Keras, is misinterpreting the second, third, fourth, fifth seals, sixth seals. Those outline the period of the great tribulation. The sixth seal is at the very end of the great tribulation.

But you have the sixth seal event as before the great tribulation even begins, by your scenario of a cme event to depopulate the middle east, is the beginning of the Day of the Lord.

Everything in your scenario is based upon not understanding that the Day of Lord does not begin until after...

1. a great falling away.
2. the man of sin being revealed by going into the temple sitting, claiming to be God.

3. the world saying peace and safety, before being caught off guard by the Day of the Lord
 
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When Paul preaches the cross and Christ Crucified... it is illusion to the Gospel, not a physical cross, that saves.
I think you mean "allusion".
 
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The power of a symbol is in the mind of the superstitious.

I enjoy horror movies, but it is Jesus that exercises demon’s, not holy water or crosses.

When Paul preaches the cross and Christ Crucified... it is illusion to the Gospel, not a physical cross, that saves. There is THEE cross that saves... and it is because of the work Christ accomplished upon it. And yet, it, again is all about Jesus.

My point?

The Star Of David... It’s the symbol of a nation that was born from the ashes of horror. They were forced to wear that Star in shame and slaughter and now they brandish it as a miracle nations symbol.

Like or not, Israel exists again... and it never has or ever will belong to Satan.

God has seen His Nation and Land accosted by the hands of evil, able to attack because of God’s people that doubted Him. He will rescue her, when the time of His election has come.

You may hate Israel... of land and nation, or just doubt what God has foretold in Romans 11:25-36 ; Zechariah 14 ; Acts Of the Apostles 1 and Joel 3... but I don’t.

I’m a member of the BOC, as you are, too. I have Jesus in my heart as you do, too! (Romans 8:9)

I have no need to theologically usurp the namesake of a people that God has further plans with, to make myself feel more special or more Saved.

I have Jesus! My doctrine works just fine without having to steal the namesake of a people that have suffered at the Devil’s hands, since inception.

Jacob is the Father Of Israel and Moses is it’s head.

Abraham is the Father of the BOC and Jesus is it’s Head.

I have no desire to be drug through the mud of superstition, because someone has to usurp what isn’t there’s to feel important in God’s eyes.

IMO, Israel IS Real. The Bible agrees, too.

Even Prophecy revolves around her still, as the Anti Christ will turn his eyes to deceiving and desecrating her, when his time comes.

I think that many people dislike that Western Eschatology has been chasing its tail, while the answers about who the enemy is have been right under their noses in easy to obtain religious texts of the enemy.

I personally think the arrogance of people to find their nation in scripture has led people to ignore what couldn’t be more plain. This is merely my opinion.

All Love in Jesus Christ to you.
I am going to start a thread on the Star of David.
 
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