How science knows your gold ring came from stars

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dad

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They ran a computer sim based on principles and stellar evolution theory...


"Using supercomputers, the trio simulated the dynamics of collapsars, or old stars whose gravity causes them to implode and form black holes."

Earth's heavy metals result of supernova explosion, research reveals


Religon, of course. Not sure why it is in a science pub.
 

Halbhh

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My gold ring came from the jewellers....:sorry:
:=) Love it.

Interesting to me, we have a fair amount of evidence (several independent types) now that it's likely that a lot of our gold came from this (below) process, a result of God's design:
The Creator of all things created Physics too. :)
 
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dad

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:=) Love it.

Interesting to me, we have a fair amount of evidence (several independent types) now that it's likely that a lot of our gold came from this (below) process, a result of God's design:
The Creator of all things created Physics too. :)
Not really. The fact that we see heavy elements in a stellar event (or spectral signatures) does not mean anything to do with earth if the bible is correct and earth was already here before stars were made. Even in the garden of Eden the rivers led to where gold was. So it was here from the beginning.
Ge 2:11 - The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold
Ge 2:11 -And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.

It also happens to be one of the materials we know Jesus uses in making things, as we see in new Jerusalem.

So any production of materials from any event in space has nothing to do with where anything came from on earth. That claim is pure religious speculation.
 
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essentialsaltes

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We've known for a long time that gold came from stars.

In the original Big Bang nucleosynthesis, there was pretty much only hydrogen helium and lithium in the universe.

Stars run on nuclear fusion extracting energy from fusing smaller nuclei into larger nuclei, but there is a limit to this. Iron (element 28) has the lowest binding energy per nucleon, so it is sort of the 'ground state'. You would only lose energy by fusing into elements higher up on the periodic table than iron. [Which is why you can also get energy from fission - breaking up very large nuclei into smaller ones - sort of the opposite of fusion.].

So a 'living' star would not make heavy elements, but in a dying one, like a supernova, there's plenty of energy to spare and can go into making the heavier elements.

This research was about specific types of supernova and how they provide better or worse conditions for producing heavy elements than other stellar remnants like neutron stars and black holes.
 
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essentialsaltes

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How many have you seen dying in the last 200 years that produced gold!?

Here's one.

Analysis of light from the Aug. 17 kilonova event indicates the neutron star collision in a galaxy known as NGC 4883 did, in fact, seed the local environment with a flood of heavy elements.

The combined observations “revealed details that we’ve never seen before in any astronomical event, the direct fingerprints of the heaviest elements in the periodic table — gold, platinum, and other elements,” said Edo Berger, a Harvard University astronomer who led a team of observers.

“From the properties of the visible and infrared light, we conclude the total mass of heavy elements produced in this one single event is 16,000 times the mass of the Earth,” he said. “Of this material, we estimate that about 10 times the mass of the Earth is in gold and platinum alone. So imagine this as you gaze at your jewelry or invest in gold futures.”
 
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dad

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Here's one.

Analysis of light from the Aug. 17 kilonova event indicates the neutron star collision in a galaxy known as NGC 4883 did, in fact, seed the local environment with a flood of heavy elements.

The combined observations “revealed details that we’ve never seen before in any astronomical event, the direct fingerprints of the heaviest elements in the periodic table — gold, platinum, and other elements,” said Edo Berger, a Harvard University astronomer who led a team of observers.

“From the properties of the visible and infrared light, we conclude the total mass of heavy elements produced in this one single event is 16,000 times the mass of the Earth,” he said. “Of this material, we estimate that about 10 times the mass of the Earth is in gold and platinum alone. So imagine this as you gaze at your jewelry or invest in gold futures.”
Right so in 2017 we saw an instance of a star seeming to produce certain materials. That does not mean earth got here from that! Nor does it mean a similar thing happened before earth existed! Nor does it mean that there is any real connection to earth. For all we know God could produce certain materials using the stars!? After all, He built a city made of gold! It is almost moon sized! It also has all manner of precious stones in it, stretching thousands and thousands of miles in one instance, around the whole city in a wall! Where does He get the materials? Who knows!? Stop looking at His creation as if it were some meaningless random fluke with no rhyme or reason. You grasp at any straw to try and explain earth in any other possible way than creation.

As for the distances and sizes and mass used in the calculations of how much was produced...no way, that is totally belief based! Basically about all we can say is that

'in some instances over the last few hundred years we have observed stars of unknown mass and distance or size undergoing reactive changes that produce certain spectra. We cannot say that similar materials on earth came from such events.'
 
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sjastro

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Stars run on nuclear fusion extracting energy from fusing smaller nuclei into larger nuclei, but there is a limit to this. Iron (element 28) has the lowest binding energy per nucleon, so it is sort of the 'ground state'. You would only lose energy by fusing into elements higher up on the periodic table than iron. [Which is why you can also get energy from fission - breaking up very large nuclei into smaller ones - sort of the opposite of fusion.].
On the contrary in terms of absolute values ⁵⁶Fe has one of the highest binding energies per nucleon (8.8 MeV) and is exceeded by ⁵⁸Fe and ⁶²Ni.

Binding-energy-per-nucleon-B-Z-N-A-as-a-function-of-the-mass-number.png


Since the fusion of ⁵⁶Fe results in nuclei with a lower binding energy per nucleon there is no excess energy released.
Fusion of ⁵⁶Fe cannot happen in stellar cores as the core will collapse under gravity while supernovae provide the necessary kinetic energy to overcome the Coulomb barrier for the fusion of heavier nuclei.
 
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Astrophile

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Here's one.

Analysis of light from the Aug. 17 kilonova event indicates the neutron star collision in a galaxy known as NGC 4883 did, in fact, seed the local environment with a flood of heavy elements.

The combined observations “revealed details that we’ve never seen before in any astronomical event, the direct fingerprints of the heaviest elements in the periodic table — gold, platinum, and other elements,” said Edo Berger, a Harvard University astronomer who led a team of observers.

“From the properties of the visible and infrared light, we conclude the total mass of heavy elements produced in this one single event is 16,000 times the mass of the Earth,” he said. “Of this material, we estimate that about 10 times the mass of the Earth is in gold and platinum alone. So imagine this as you gaze at your jewelry or invest in gold futures.”


According to N.R. Tanvir et al., 2017, 'The Emergence of a Lanthanide-Rich Kilonova Following the Merger of Two Neutron Stars', The Emergence of a Lanthanide-rich Kilonova Following the Merger of Two Neutron Stars - IOPscience , this neutron star merger also produced large quantities of rare-earth elements (lanthanides).
 
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Yttrium

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Thanks for the article, dad! It was very interesting. I thought that the idea of creating heavier elements just through cosmic collisions was a bit far-fetched, so these "collapsars" provide some good alternatives.
 
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Kylie

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dad

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Can you point out where the science claim is wrong?
It is religion. Belief. No one saw some star explode, and produce gold and earth get that gold. You are trying to associate a current event with creation itself, and do so in an ungodly and totally belief based way.
 
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dad

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Thanks for the article, dad! It was very interesting. I thought that the idea of creating heavier elements just through cosmic collisions was a bit far-fetched, so these "collapsars" provide some good alternatives.

Yes things are produced by reactions out in the stars. I mean shoes are produced in some factories, that does not mean that Adam wore one!
 
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Kylie

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It is religion. Belief. No one saw some star explode, and produce gold and earth get that gold. You are trying to associate a current event with creation itself, and do so in an ungodly and totally belief based way.

So that's a no. You can't point to anything and say, "Yes, they made a mistake in this step here."
 
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essentialsaltes

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If you are suggesting gold came from space and the bible is wrong, well, we wait for some intelligent support.

The basic way the solar system formed has been known for a long time. It was proposed more than 200 years ago by Laplace and others, and refined and expanded on. Images of extrasolar planetary disks has provided better information to lock down the details. Planetary systems form out of the stuff that is out in space. It's not that mysterious.
 
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Brightmoon

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Dad we KNOW this happens because elements at those high temperatures give off energy in specific wavelengths. It’s forms an absorption spectrum even in the visible light range. This has been know for a long time . Helium was called helium from Helios - the sun because they discovered it in the sun long before it was found on earth. This is 19th century science. This is now the 21st century
 
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