CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN

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Just consider what a catastrophy it would be if there were millions of additional babies born, when there's so clearly no space for them.
Theres a big lack care for the live people, that were all ready born .Why would they care about the unborn.
 
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MorkandMindy

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This entire thread is based on a false premise about what Nancy Pelosi was saying. You're correct, her argument is we are all descendants of immigrants, they are no degenerates. And it's also a false argument to say the issue is illegal immigration when the current regime is focused on curtailing all forms of immigration by rejecting more applicants and curtailing the many legal ways immigrants come to this country. This is about the hatred and demonization of any and all immigrants, regardless of their form of entry.

Nancy Pelosi also said recently (Jan 2019 I think) 'the Wall is an immorality, it is not who we are as a nation', she is against stopping illegal immigration.
 
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SummerMadness

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Nancy Pelosi also said recently (Jan 2019 I think) 'the Wall is an immorality, it is not who we are as a nation', she is against stopping illegal immigration.
Another strawman and false argument. The wall is immoral and that has nothing to do with illegal immigration, it is nothing more than wanting to build a monument to racism.
 
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Aryeh Jay

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Early on that was true but the boat ride was very expensive and this itself restricted immigration to those with skills and money.

Later very large ships were built which were far cheaper per person hence the additional hurdles were added.

The debtor’s colony of Georgia would disagree.
 
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Elliewaves

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That would be because "illegal" immigration is less than 100 years old.

Before the 1920's, any able bodied person could enter the country, unless they were Chinese. This was due to the Chinese Exclusion Act of 1882 which also prohibited “any convict, lunatic, idiot, or any person unable to take care of himself or herself without becoming a public charge.” The first real test for immigrants came in 1917 which was a literacy test that could be taken in the immigrants native language. It wasn't until 1921 that Congress put immigration quotas in place.

Think your immigrant ancestors came here legally? Think again | Opinion - nj.com

What's interesting is the same arguments against immigrants a century ago are the same ones we hear today, only then it was Italians, Greeks, Jews, and the Irish that some had an issue with.

Excerpts from the Congressional Debate on Immigration Restriction (1921)

“I would like to shut for a time the immigration door. Thousands come here who never take the oath to support our Constitution and to become citizens of the United States . . . They fill places that belong to the loyal wage-earning citizens of America. They preach a doctrine that is dangerous and deadly to our institutions. They are no of service whatever to our people. They constitute a menace and danger to us every day.” -- James Thomas Heflin, From Alabama

“Practically all of them were weak, small of stature, poorly clad, emaciated . . . It is for this reason that I say the class of immigrants coming to the shores of the United States at this time are not the kind of people we want as citizens in this country.” -- Representative James V. McClintic, Democrat from Oklahoma,

“We should stop immigration entirely until such a time as we can amend our immigration laws and so write them that hereafter no one shall be admitted except he be in full sympathy with our Constitution and laws, willing to declare himself obedient to our flag, and willing to release himself form any obligations he may owe to the flag of the country from which he came . . . within a few short years the damage will have been done. The endless tide of immigration will have filled our country with a foreign and unsympathetic element. Those who are out of sympathy with our Constitution and the spirit of our Government will be here in large numbers, and the true spirit of Americanism left us by our fathers will gradually become poisoned by this uncertain element.” -- Representative Lucian Walton, Democrat from Texas

What the speaker below says is just as true today as it was then:

"Defenders of this bill thoughtlessly repeat the exploded theory that there have been two periods of immigration, the good period, which the chairman of the committee fixes up to the year 1900, and the bad period since. The strange thing about it is that at no time in history has any country made such rapid progress in industry, in science, and in the sphere of local legislation as this country has shown since 1900. To prevent immigration means to cripple the United States. Our most developed industrial States are those which have the largest immigration. Our most backward States industrially and in the point of literacy are those which have no immigration to speak of... The extraordinary and unprecedented growth of the United States is as much a cause as the effect of immigration. The new immigration is neither different nor worse, and besides that, identically the same arguments were used against the old immigration." -- Mr. Meyer London, Socialist-N.Y.

Even long before the 1920's Ben Franklin was against German immigration:

"Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs any more than they can acquire our Complexion?

Which leads me to add one Remark, that the Number of purely white People in the World is proportionably very small. All Africa is black or tawny; Asia chiefly tawny; America (exclusive of the new Comers) wholly so. And in Europe, the Spaniards, Italians, French, Russians, and Swedes, are generally of what we call a swarthy Complexion; as are the Germans also, the Saxons only excepted, who, with the English, make the principal Body of White People on the Face of the Earth. I could wish their Numbers were increased."
-- Benjamin Franklin, in 1751

Not many Americans reading this thread today would have even been born if the laws we have today were in place when their ancestors arrived in the US.

Interestingly enough, the eugenics movement helped to shape US Immigration. It was in full swing in the 20's and the Immigration Restriction Act of 1924 did everything US eugenicists dreamed of. Harry Laughlin was a key eugenicist who lobbied to keep the unclean people away from the clean US citizens (well the ones that weren't poor or in asylums for misunderstood social, emotional, and mental problems or stress- those could just be sterilized against their will). The attitudes we see now are the same ones that existed then: dirty immigrants are different from us and bring crime and dependency on resources thus we need to keep them out.
 
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mala

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The USA have a very low population density, similar to Kyrgyzstan or Sweden.

For example, its half of the population density of Ireland, one third of the population density of Austria, one fifth of population density of Switzerland, one tenth of the population density of Netherlands etc.

So no, "there is not enough of space" is not a good argument. The USA is a huge country with very low population, compared to its area. Compare, for example, to Europe, how much smaller the continent is and and the population is twice as high (500 million Europeans vs 300 million Americans).

Your limit is much higher than you can imagine, a billion people would still fit very well.

Countries by Population Density 2018 - StatisticsTimes.com
americans are trending more and more towards obesity though these days. so that must more than make up the smaller population density with actual density.
 
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mala

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Thankfully last year the US admitted MORE legal immigrants than the years prior. So we are a country of immigrants. BUT we are also in serious debt and need to get out of debt. God is NOT blessing us because of our sinful legalization of abortion. Just wondering if people who do not want children and think the world is too populated should simply really take control of their bodies and get their tubes tied or vasectomies to prevent pregnancy After all...we have been told that we only have 12 more years to live on this planet? Also, the danger of not trusting in Jesus Christ as your Saviour has the consequence of being separated from God for eternity upon death. I am curious to know what the dangers of believing in Jesus Christ are? Praying for you to sincerely ask God for wisdom and that He would reveal himself to you as he did Saul on the road to Demascus.
that entire paragraph sounds like alarmist garbage. also what does immigration have to do at all with people controlling their own bodies? clearly you shouldn't be in control of anything.
 
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SoldierOfTheKing

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Before the 1920's, any able bodied person could enter the country, unless they were Chinese.

The Naturalization Act of 1790 expressly limited naturalization to "free white persons of good character".

The United States didn't have high levels of immigration until 1830's -half a century after the American Revolution. To say the the United States is a land of immigrants is historically false.
 
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Kentonio

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I wouldn't exactly use the word 'settled during America's inception. The birth of America brought nothing but disease, death and destruction to the Native Americans who were already living here.

Did you know that this invasion of Europeans is referred to as a 'horde of locusts' among many NDNs? Why is that? It's because a horde of locusts devour and destroy everything within its path. There are some other references, but I wouldn't be allowed to post them here because of the goading rule.

Yes sorry, that was a poor choice of words. My apologies.
 
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Servant of Yeshua

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that entire paragraph sounds like alarmist garbage. also what does immigration have to do at all with people controlling their own bodies? clearly you shouldn't be in control of anything.
I got rid of the other statement I made because I believe it was taken the wrong way. AOC and a few other Democrats have said that we only had 12 years left ( as if they were god). That is alarmist garbage. The only thing that I am in control of that matters at all is whether or not I choose Jesus Christ as my Saviour. God is in control and though mankind has the freewill to choose sin ( for a limited time), we are here on earth to choose for or against Jesus Christ. God loves ALL people and the invitation is open to all. Revelations 3:14-20. Christianity goes against our human nature to want revenge on others. We are to love our enemies and pray for those who wish us harm. One day every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. I pray that you will find the peace that surpasses ALL human understanding in Christ Jesus. Anyone on Christianforums.com is truly seeking and I am thankful that you are here. But the best way to gain knowledge is to read the Bible and pray for wisdom. Peace to you.
 
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wing2000

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Nancy Pelosi also said recently (Jan 2019 I think) 'the Wall is an immorality, it is not who we are as a nation', she is against stopping illegal immigration.

Interesting that you would make such a presumptive conclusion without examining her voting record. Both parties have supported border security measures in the past.

Many simply don't agree that a "Wall" is a cost effective security measure.
 
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Pommer

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I got rid of the other statement I made because I believe it was taken the wrong way. AOC and a few other Democrats have said that we only had 12 years left ( as if they were god). That is alarmist garbage. The only thing that I am in control of that matters at all is whether or not I choose Jesus Christ as my Saviour. God is in control and though mankind has the freewill to choose sin ( for a limited time), we are here on earth to choose for or against Jesus Christ. God loves ALL people and the invitation is open to all. Revelations 3:14-20. Christianity goes against our human nature to want revenge on others. We are to love our enemies and pray for those who wish us harm. One day every knee will bow and every tongue confess that Jesus is Lord. I pray that you will find the peace that surpasses ALL human understanding in Christ Jesus. Anyone on Christianforums.com is truly seeking and I am thankful that you are here. But the best way to gain knowledge is to read the Bible and pray for wisdom. Peace to you.
So, we are to thoroughly rape this Earth so that when Jesus comes back (with a New Earth MarkII) this old one will be “all used up”?
 
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mala

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No, its legals verses illegals.
hmmm not really it isn't. it's one group that has done everything it can to keep people of different skin colours and religions out. changing the census rules of who is white and who isn't. instituting quotas were countries with predominantly white populations are favoured over others. etc.. etc.. etc..
the legal vs illegal debate is their latest cross to burn since they are too chicken to admit to the other things anymore.
 
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Servant of Yeshua

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So, we are to thoroughly rape this Earth so that when Jesus comes back (with a New Earth MarkII) this old one will be “all used up”?
Not at all. According to the bible God is the one who knits the child in the womb. Children are a special blessing from the Lord.
Also, I personally believe that a vegan lifestyle is best because God did not have man and woman even eat meat at all until after the world-wide flood. Yes, we certainly do have the freedom of eating meat and animal product (especially if it needed to survive as when they got off the arc). But, I think it is better if we cut way back for our own health because we are severely over-eating meat and animal products and our health as a nation shows that.
However, sin is what causes the most damage to the earth. We are abusing ourselves the most.
 
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Ana the Ist

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These words opened the longest paragraph in the Pelosi remarks at 2019 California Democratic Party state convention.

As with most things I fall somewhat in the middle on this one, and I do not completely accept the case that is being made.

The argument is that we / our ancestors came to this continent and therefore we are hypocrites if we say others can't.

A slightly unfair counter example would be when a room with a fire regulation occupancy limit of 50 reached 70 (I was in that situation) and the meeting had to be brought to a close, for everyone.

If someone had kept count then would it have been fairer to stop everyone after 50 from entering or would it have been fairer to do as was done, once occupancy exceeded the limit to end the meeting and all leave?

Yeah....it's kind of the central argument on the left these days. I think the boat analogy works better...

If we imagine every nation as a boat adrift in a large ocean....some of the people on our boat argue that those who swim from their boats to ours should be allowed to stay. After all, that's how they got here, or their parents, or some ancestors. It's part of what makes our boat special and unique....and these things are true.

There's another group on our boat though, and they look at the other boats and ask....why are people leaving them? They realize that part of the reason is quite simply....they have too many people on their boats and not enough to go around. They understand that should they continue to allow people on their boat....eventually it will have too many people and have the same problems people are fleeing from. This is also true.

So the inevitable conclusion is that we must hope the first group understands what the second group knows in time to do something about it. Hopefully the first group isn't navigating the boat when the problems worsen...or they may still be blind to the causes of those problems. If they aren't able to understand the problem...then we may see some rather drastic actions from the second group when they're navigating.
 
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Ana the Ist

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You think that poor immigrants from southern America will somehow live with the same wealth as is the style of the most rich Americans and therefore bring the destruction to the planet? I think they will be quite successful if they will find a permanent low wage job.

That sounds silly....how about their children? Even if what you was true....their children have no obligation to settle for relative poverty and we're right back to overconsumption.
 
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Ana the Ist

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The irony of seeing immigrants complaining about other immigrants in this thread is off the charts.

I can think of several peoples who probably wish they could go back in time and convince their ancestors to take unrestricted migration to their lands more seriously....
 
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MorkandMindy

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I've realized there's a zillion ways to poke holes in the argument that because we are here we can't tell them they can't come in too, like take another of the limited resources type

Our store gets ten loaves one day of a particular type of bread (sprouted wheat). By 8:30 in the morning all ten are gone and an eleventh customer comes in, sees there are none on the shelf and goes to the line at the register and tells a customer who came earlier and picked up that bread that they have no more right to that loaf of bread than they have even though they are a later arrival.

Amazing how things that obvious get overlooked so people make great big errors of the same type in real life based on an obvious fallacy.

I knew about this back when I was a liberal, that the liberals are the easiest to persuade with nonsense arguments, and that nonsense is produced by 'think tanks' who work for the big guys like the banks, and the banks favor immigration because it brings in cheap labor so the big companies get bigger profits and it also helps keep the housing market strong too.

All these crazy ideas are coming from the same place.
 
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