Jerry Nadler’s Trump-bashing show is a bust

Kentonio

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My feeling is that this is a certainty. The idea that elections decide things and the will of the voters should be respected is past history, Im afraid.

Yes, it died when your party spent 8 years obstructing everything the previously elected president did, including stealing a Supreme Court seat from him. Enjoy the fruits of your labor.
 
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Allandavid

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The NYPost editorial had it right on the button. The ludicrous scene of John Dean, of all people, being brought in to give his usual speech that is based upon no personal experience with the Trump-Mueller situation can mean nothing other than that there is nothing of real substance that they can turn to.

Like the Republican congressmen, the best you can do is attack the messenger....no comment at all upon the substance of his testimony....
 
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KCfromNC

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Did he prevent one person from testifying?
Did he not turn over any documents?
Did he not answer the questions sent to him?
Did he exert executive privilege during the investigation?
Did he prevent the White House counsel from being interrogated for 30 hours?
He he prevent his own family members from being questioned?
Did he destroy any evidence?

Why not just address the actual alleged instances of obstruction rather than ask random questions like this? Avoiding the evidence makes it look like there isn't a good defense for the instances of obstruction laid out in Volume II of the Mueller report.
 
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Albion

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Like the Republican congressmen, the best you can do is attack the messenger....no comment at all upon the substance of his testimony....
That's ridiculous. No matter what the issue is, everyone here takes account of the credibility of the witnesses. They did so with the Kavanaugh hearings, with the people involved in the Mueller investigation, and with the other events that have been commented on here.
 
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wing2000

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That's ridiculous. No matter what the issue is, everyone here takes account of the credibility of the witnesses. They did so with the Kavanaugh hearings, with the people involved in the Mueller investigation, and with the other events that have been commented on here.

Witness credibiity should be considered. However, the substance of the comments is frequently never addressed. In this case, the Congressman attacked the witness' motives....instead of the substance of his argument.
 
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hislegacy

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Witness credibiity should be considered. However, the substance of the comments is frequently never addressed. In this case, the Congressman attacked the witness' motives....instead of the substance of his argument.

Since he was not a witness of fact - and he had no role or interaction with the investigation - and this is the third time he has made the WaterGate connection with three different Presidents -

What substance can he offer?
 
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wing2000

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Since he was not a witness of fact - and he had no role or interaction with the investigation - and this is the third time he has made the WaterGate connection with three different Presidents -

What substance can he offer?

He can provide historical context and can knowledgeably speak to the process. He essentially drove home the point -- Mueller provided a road map.....and it's up to Congress to act.
 
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FreeinChrist

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In response to questions by the person interviewing him.
https://www.vox.com/2018/6/4/17424750/trump-mueller-news-pardon-letter-russia-tweets

President Donald Trump sharply escalated his attacks on special counsel Robert Muellerover the weekend, making sweeping and controversial claims of presidential power while demeaning Mueller’s investigation as illegitimate.

In a series of tweets and interviews, Trump and his lawyer Rudy Giuliani claimed that Trump’s pardon power is absolute and that he can even use it on himself. Giuliani also argued that Trump couldn’t be indicted as sitting president, even if he shot someone. And Trump asserted that Mueller’s very appointment was unconstitutional.

These new attacks are particularly eyebrow-raising because they come amid a period of relative public quiet on Mueller’s part. The special counsel’s team is known to be looking into a plethora of topics, but they haven’t filed any new charges (that we know of) in more than three months.......

Trump has been in a cold war with Mueller’s team for much of the year since he was appointed, but these new arguments — suggesting that Manafort may have been set up somehow, bragging that he could pardon himself, and arguing that the entire investigation into him is unconstitutional — all signify a new level of aggression.

What’s unclear is why Trump is escalating now. Is it Trump’s simmering rage about the investigation, or is there some more direct cause behind the scenes?

All this could be Trump trying to make the public case for why he shouldn’t sit for an interview with Mueller’s team — or why he should resist a potential subpoena from them. It could be a panicked response to some development in the investigation Trump is particularly worried about. Or it could be a prelude to some dramatic offensive action on his part.
Yeah, Trump was a shining example of cooperation during the investigation. :doh:
He started tweeting about pardoning himself.


Trump could use Twitter to issue pardon for Michael Flynn and Paul Manafort, say DOJ emails

On Wednesday The New York Times revealed that, also in July, Trump's former top lawyer in the Russia investigation John Dowd was discussing potential pardons with lawyers for Michael Flynn and Paul Manafort.
Trump also tweeted about it.

There is a lack of cooperation with the House Judiciary Committee, and other committees by the White House - Trump. The House is exercising their legal duty.
Nadler's hearing had some interesting things in it. All the Republicans could do is smear John Dean.
 
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Albion

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Since he was not a witness of fact - and he had no role or interaction with the investigation - and this is the third time he has made the WaterGate connection with three different Presidents -

What substance can he offer?
John Dean in fact offered nothing of substance. But he said that he saw
“remarkable parallels” between Watergate and the Mueller investigation, and said that the findings of the latter “echo Watergate.”

In other words, nothing. The conclusion we may come to on the basis of this performance would be that the House Democrats know that they have nothing.
 
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FreeinChrist

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Barbara MCQuade, former US attorney, was a good witness.
Former U.S. Attorney Tells Congress Trump Committed ‘Multiple Crimes’

The most significant finding in the Special Counsel’s Report is that Russia interfered with our election in “sweeping and systematic fashion.”

Through that lens, I will share 2 observations about the report—

What happened and why it matters.

First, the conduct described in the report constitutes multiple crimes of obstruction of justice, supported by evidence of guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.

If anyone other than a sitting president had committed this conduct, I am confident that he would be charged with crimes.

One thousand former federal prosecutors signed a letter agreeing that the president committed crimes.

Second, why it matters.

The obstruction described in the report created a risk to our national security because it was designed to prevent investigators from learning all of the facts about an attack on our country by a hostile foreign adversary.

Let me explain each of those observations.
She goes on to support her statement.

John Dean was not the only person there. Barbara McQuade was there.
John Dean did offer some interesting information.
 
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hislegacy

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John Dean was not the only person there. Barbara McQuade was there.
John Dean did offer some interesting information.

Interesting information that was not fact based.
 
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hislegacy

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John Dean in fact offered nothing of substance. But he said that he saw
“remarkable parallels” between Watergate and the Mueller investigation, and said that the findings of the latter “echo Watergate.”

In other words, nothing. The conclusion we may come to on the basis of this performance would be that the House Democrats know that they have nothing.

This is the second or third President he found those interesting parallels with?

When does his book come out and how much is CNN paying him?
 
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Albion

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What he offered was his own guesswork and personal conclusions, but he appears to have been careful not to say things in a definite fashion as though he really did know something about the current issue. It appears that he was aware that putting a personal opinion in the form of statement of fact could leave him open to a charge of lying to Congress.
 
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Sparagmos

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Wouldn't that be two years, given that a term in the House is two years and the Democrats didn't get a majority until the 2018 election (taking office in 2019)?
Two years, of which a year and a half hadn’t even happened yet! LOL
 
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Sparagmos

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Did he prevent one person from testifying?
Did he not turn over any documents?
Did he not answer the questions sent to him?
Did he exert executive privilege during the investigation?
Did he prevent the White House counsel from being interrogated for 30 hours?
He he prevent his own family members from being questioned?
Did he destroy any evidence?
Goodness, I think he attempted to do most of that stuff. That list isn’t really helping your argument, especially considering the fact that attempted obstruction is pretty much the same crime as obstruction.
 
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wing2000

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This is the second or third President he found those interesting parallels with?

When does his book come out and how much is CNN paying him?

...and like the congressman, now you question his motives.
 
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FreeinChrist

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Interesting information that was not fact based.
I disagree. Nor have read that said things about other presidents.

Otherwise what I read and saw on TV were smears.
 
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hislegacy

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I disagree. Nor have read that said things about other presidents.

Otherwise what I read and saw on TV were smears.

Here is one:

“Mr. Dean has made a cottage industry out of accusing presidents of acting like Richard Nixon,” Rep. Matt Gaetz, R-Fla., said.

Dean, the ex-White House counsel in President Richard Nixon's administration, was convicted of obstruction of justice after striking a deal to cooperate with the Watergate investigation. He has spent decades critical of the GOP and wrote a book in 2004 accusing President George H.W. Bush of acts “worse than watergate.

Republicans assail Dean’s record: 'How many presidents have you accused of being Richard Nixon?'
 
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