Climate change - hoax or reality?

Zoii said:

This whole topic is about CO2 being pumped into our atmosphere thus warming the earth's atmosphere and exacerbating extreme weather patterns. I feel your response has failed to take that into consideration.

That said at least you are considering the problem and reaching for alternative ideas....its just they need to be non-CO2 producing.

Click to expand...

We're already on the path to clean energy with wind and solar, etc. What is needed is to retain already sequestered carbon in the ground, and, increase forest and grassland acreage to sequester more co2, as well as other technologies. Of course this means changing our agricultural and logging practices. Insulation codes for buildings and water heaters need to be more stringent. We can't toss the baby out with the bathwater; we still need fossil fuels, especially natural gas. Lots of approaches are needed, including individual efforts. There is no single solution.

Postvieww said:

Your money!

Click to expand...

Please, do go on. How so?

OldWiseGuy said:

You're asking the fox to guard the henhouse. Why research something that you know will make you look bad?

Click to expand...

Do you seriously believe that? Or is that some type of humour Im not getting

OldWiseGuy said:

We're already on the path to clean energy with wind and solar, etc. What is needed is to retain already sequestered carbon in the ground, and, increase forest and grassland acreage to sequester more co2, as well as other technologies. Of course this means changing our agricultural and logging practices. Insulation codes for buildings and water heaters need to be more stringent. We can't toss the baby out with the bathwater; we still need fossil fuels, especially natural gas. Lots of approaches are needed, including individual efforts. There is no single solution.

Click to expand...

Thats a very reasonable point

Zoii said:

Do you seriously believe that? Or is that some type of humour Im not getting

Click to expand...

My statement is as true as anything anyone has ever said.

Philip_B said:

There is a saying round here (Newcastle Australia - huge coal exporting port) Clean Coal is a dirty lie.

I think, like lots of people, I hope clean coal is possible, however there is not enough water under the bridge yet to forget VW and clean diesel.

The western solution of exporting the dirty tasks to India and China so we can pretend it is not our problem is not a good long term solution.

That being said, the most recent federal election in Australia showed that the Climate Change agenda got good traction in the leafy luxury suburbs and absolutely trounced in the gritty working areas where jobs are essential to bread on the table. That may well be Maslow's hierarchy of needs in action.

Click to expand...

More likely reflects a IQ evolutionary tree.

mukk_in said:

who really is responsible for pollution and global warming. Is it even real? If so, how do we fix it?

Click to expand...

It is real.

And each one of us is responsible to act accordingly.

Carl Emerson said:

Human greed is sinking the planet, not climate deniers.

Click to expand...

I'm guessing that deniers and supporters have similar carbon footprints.

Carl Emerson said:

Human greed is sinking the planet, not climate deniers.

Click to expand...

Human greed (profit) is the motivation funding studies to back up the deniers...i

wing2000 said:

Human greed (profit) is the motivation funding studies to back up the deniers...i

Click to expand...

If 99 percent believe in global warming what's the holdup in solving the problem? Oh wait, they're still pushing and shoving for their place at the money trough.

Philip_B said:

There is a saying round here (Newcastle Australia - huge coal exporting port) Clean Coal is a dirty lie.

Click to expand...

Clean coal is possible...just add money.

mukk_in said:

During his ongoing state visit to the UK the President suggested that developing countries like India, China and Russia are irresponsible polluters.

Click to expand...

I dunno...the US usually ranks pretty high on lists of carbon emissions (usually something like #1 or #2).

Although cities like Delhi have the worst air quality, the American Lung Association (www.lung.org/our-initiatives/healthy-air/sota/) reported in 2018 that 133.9 million Americans are living in highly polluted environments. That number is up from 2017. Big cities like New York, LA, Chicago, Houston, Philadelphia, Indianapolis, Fairbanks are all on that list.

Click to expand...

I doubt air pollution in those US cities compares with Delhi.

World Air Quality Index (AQI) Ranking | AirVisual

I was wondering who really is responsible for pollution and global warming.

Click to expand...

Probably us.

Causes | Facts – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet

Is it even real?

Click to expand...

Yes, the earth is warming.

Evidence | Facts – Climate Change: Vital Signs of the Planet
Eyes on the Earth – NASA's Eyes

If so, how do we fix it?

Click to expand...

IMO, that's the most difficult question. Everything involves trade offs. So what trade-off, if any, are we willing to make? I don't think there's an easy answer. I think the end goal of any action should be a maximizing of the flourishing life, both in terms of life expectancy and quality. So the end goal isn't to stem climate change for the sake of climate change as if this is a goal into itself, but to stem it in a way so that life is better off than it otherwise would have been. I don't know that there's a straightforward and simple way to do that.

Carl Emerson said:

I was in renewable energy for 13 years. While these ideas are good they need to be affordable. Unfortunately the RE industry is very competitive and price of wood pellets for example have gone out the roof. The reason for this is that when humans have a sniff of a potential profit they are in there like robbers dogs. Forget the planet - there is a buck to be made.

So the protest movement we see on this thread is targeting the wrong folk.
Human greed is sinking the planet, not climate deniers.

Click to expand...

While I agree with this 100% I would posit that greed is the ACTUAL motivation for climate deniers.

Yekcidmij said:

IMO, that's the most difficult question. Everything involves trade offs. So what trade-off, if any, are we willing to make? I don't think there's an easy answer. I think the end goal of any action should be a maximizing of the flourishing life, both in terms of life expectancy and quality. So the end goal isn't to stem climate change for the sake of climate change as if this is a goal into itself, but to stem it in a way so that life is better off than it otherwise would have been. I don't know that there's a straightforward and simple way to do that.

Click to expand...

If we produced and ate much less food then much more land could be managed to sequester carbon. This would mean better health for both man and planet. So the tradeoff for a healthier planet would be healthier humans.

rambot said:

While I agree with this 100% I would posit that greed is the ACTUAL motivation for climate deniers.

Click to expand...

That's interesting since many climate change activists are accused of being in it for the money themselves. Al Gore, for instance, made a bundle and refurbished his reputation while flying tens of thousands of miles on a private jet for the purpose of speaking about how awful it is that we put pollutants into the air. And he is far from being the only example.

OldWiseGuy said:

If we produced and ate much less food

Click to expand...

Hope you're just being sarcastic, hard to tell.

I wonder how many people would go for the idea of decreasing food production and eating less? Would you have some sort of Dept of Food Consumption that monitors food consumption? How would you enforce this? Would you imprison people for eating more than some quota? Would you have a Dept. of Production managing how many seeds people sow in the ground? How would you enforce that? Storm over-producers fields and tear up their crops? How much would this all cost? What are the risks? Starvation? Corruption? Inequality? Violence?

I dunno, call me skeptical of this idea.

This would mean better health for both man and planet. So the tradeoff for a healthier planet would be healthier humans

Click to expand...

I doubt it. No details, no consideration of costs and risks.

rambot said:

While I agree with this 100% I would posit that greed is the ACTUAL motivation for climate deniers.

Click to expand...

Whilst that may be a conclusion that sits well with the enlightened and the comfortable I am going to challenge it on a number of grounds.

1. It is merely an assertion and the reality is we need to know more about the individual circumstances of someone opposed to action on climate change.
2. It rings very thin when someone on say 30K has to listen to people on 250K telling him his motivation is Greed while he/she may well simply be struggling to provide food and shelter for the family, and is looking at policies that make this harder not easier. I did indicate in an earlier post that I felt this was more a reflection of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs.

And clearly I make this statement as one who is thoroughly convinced by the evidence and do believe it is part of our sacred duty of custodianship of the planet to try and move public policy so that humankind is on the right side of the ledger when it comes to the Environment and Climate Change.

Yekcidmij said:

Hope you're just being sarcastic, hard to tell.

I wonder how many people would go for the idea of decreasing food production and eating less? Would you have some sort of Dept of Food Consumption that monitors food consumption? How would you enforce this? Would you imprison people for eating more than some quota? Would you have a Dept. of Production managing how many seeds people sow in the ground? How would you enforce that? Storm over-producers fields and tear up their crops? How much would this all cost? What are the risks? Starvation? Corruption? Inequality? Violence?

I dunno, call me skeptical of this idea.



I doubt it. No details, no consideration of costs and risks.

Click to expand...

People need to be educated regarding health and nutrition. Sadly this wonderful knowledge is known to only relatively few of us health nuts. Overweight and obesity are caused by eating waaaay too much food. This has led to the overproduction of food, which has had a negative impact on the environment.

Why are Americans Obese? | PublicHealth.org

Obesity in America: A Growing Concern

The vast majority of American adults are overweight or obese, and weight is a growing problem among US children

How Much Does Agriculture Contribute to Global Warming? - Planet Experts

USDA ERS - Agriculture and Climate Change