Convince me of Annihilationism

ewq1938 · Jun 10, 2019

friend of said:
Jesus said "...in this life or the next"

This means there are only 2 ages (aka) anions. This one, and the one that comes after. Jesus does not suggest a third one. Therefore we can conclude that the second anion is an eternal one.

Not really. Jesus isn't trying to explain the various aions to anyone in that verse. Multiple verses speak of aions to come, spoken in this aion so more than one is yet to come:

Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

We have the current age (has a beginning and an ending), the Millennial age (has a beginning and an ending), the short season/GWTJ age (has a beginning and an ending), then the eternal age of the NHNE. (has a beginning but no ending)

Der Alte · Jun 10, 2019

friend of said:
Jesus said "...in this life or the next"
This means there are only 2 ages (aka) anions. This one, and the one that comes after. Jesus does not suggest a third one. Therefore we can conclude that the second anion is an eternal one.

That is what I believe. I have shown that aion means eternity and aionios means eternal, but they sometimes refer to something which is not eternity/eternal. That is known as hyperbole. For example, Herod was not actually, literally a fox when Jesus called him that. James and John were not actually, literally sons of thunder when Jesus called them that. Simon was not literally, actually a stone when Jesus named him that. Here are are two of 21 verses where aionios is defined as eternal by other adjectives/adjectival phrases.

John 3:15
(15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal [αιωνιον] life.

In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “shall not perish.” Believers could perish in a finite period, “aionion life” by definition here means eternal life.

John 3:16
(16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting
[αιωνιον] life..

In this verse Jesus pairs “aionion” with “should not perish.” Believers could eventually perish in a finite period, thus by definition “aionion life” here means eternal or everlasting life.
When they refer to something which is not eternal they are never defined as a non-eternal period by other adjectives/adjectival phrases.

friend of · Jun 11, 2019

ewq1938 said:
Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

We have the current age (has a beginning and an ending), the Millennial age (has a beginning and an ending), the short season/GWTJ age (has a beginning and an ending), then the eternal age of the NHNE. (has a beginning but no ending)

Well if we're measuring eternity in human years in this age, then the aion to come, the final one, could be measured metaphorically as "ages to come" while still describing only a single, final, eternal age.

friend of · Jun 11, 2019

ewq1938 said:
We have the current age (has a beginning and an ending), the Millennial age (has a beginning and an ending), the short season/GWTJ age (has a beginning and an ending), then the eternal age of the NHNE. (has a beginning but no ending)

I think you're talking about dispensations and I wouldn't necessarily consider those to be ages in the same sense as the NHNE.

Also, God tested on the 7th day. Is He resting now or will His rest be completed upon the NHNE? And if so, do we then move into an 8th day?

ewq1938 · Jun 11, 2019

friend of said:
Well if we're measuring eternity in human years in this age, then the aion to come, the final one, could be measured metaphorically as "ages to come" while still describing only a single, final, eternal age.

So ages plural is just age singular? Seems like sound reasoning

ewq1938 · Jun 11, 2019

friend of said:
And if so, do we then move into an 8th day?

There are only 7 days in a week. There is no "8th day".

friend of · Jun 11, 2019

ewq1938 said:
So ages plural is just age singular? Seems like sound reasoning

Well I mean like, if you think about it, time as we know it doesn't really exist in eternity, does it? We attempt to understand eternity by measuring it in Millennia and centuries and decades and millions upon billions upon trillions of years, which is nothing more than a poor attempt to conceive of that which has no beginning nor end.

Saying "ages to come" is just another poor measurement for eternity, like so.

ewq1938 · Jun 11, 2019

friend of said:
Well I mean like, if you think about it, time as we know it doesn't really exist in eternity, does it?

Actually it does.

There is a new fruit on the tree of life every month (30 days of time).

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Saying "ages to come" is just another poor measurement for eternity, like so.

No, because most of the ages that addresses are ages prior to the eternal age not to mention scripture addresses the eternal age as an age so not a "poor measurement" at all.

friend of · Jun 11, 2019

ewq1938 said:
There is a new fruit on the tree of life every month (30 days of time).

Rev 22:2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Well this is interesting because Revelation also talks about how there will be no sun and moon anymore and that God will be our light. Revelation 21:23

So if there's no more sun then there's no reason to expect that the new Earth will revolve around the sun if no reason to expect the same calendar that we have now on Earth.

But that's purely for sake of argument.

friend of · Jun 11, 2019

ewq1938 said:
No, because most of the ages that addresses are ages prior to the eternal age not to mention scripture addresses the eternal age as an age so not a "poor measurement" at all.

I think your definition of "ages" is incorrect then.

Der Alte · Jun 11, 2019

In Hebrew there are no superlatives such as "very,""certainly" etc. For emphasis Hebrew repeats the word to be highlighted. For example, in Gen 2:17 God told Adam in the day that you eat of the tree of knowledge of good and evil "you shall surely die." In Hebrew it reads "dying you shall die." "For ever and ever" is another word that is repeated for emphasis. See e.g. Figures of Speech Used in the Bible, E.W. Bullinger, pg. 189
Figures of speech used in the Bible: : Bullinger, E. W. (Ethelbert William), 1837-1913 : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

ewq1938 · Jun 11, 2019

friend of said:
Well this is interesting because Revelation also talks about how there will be no sun and moon anymore and that God will be our light. Revelation 21:23

It doesn't say there is no sun or moon.

Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.

It says the city doesn't need the light of the sun or moon, because it has it's own light source. The sun and moon are still there and still shine light. The rest of the planet outside the city still needs light.

ewq1938 · Jun 11, 2019

friend of said:
I think your definition of "ages" is incorrect then.

I never used a personal definition.

friend of · Jun 13, 2019

ewq1938 said:
The rest of the planet outside the city still needs light

Why? Isn't everyone in New Jerusalem?

ewq1938 · Jun 13, 2019

friend of said:
Why? Isn't everyone in New Jerusalem?

No, the nations and the kings of the Earth live outside of it but come to give glory to God.

Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

friend of · Jun 13, 2019

ewq1938 said:
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

Okay, so your saying there will be 3 destinations when the end comes.

Heaven
Hell
Some neutral grey zone that exists in between

ewq1938 · Jun 13, 2019

friend of said:
Okay, so your saying there will be 3 destinations when the end comes.

Heaven
Hell
Some neutral grey zone that exists in between

I never said any of that. I clearly said not everyone lives in NJ. Did you read my post?

friend of · Jun 13, 2019

ewq1938 said:
I never said any of that. I clearly said not everyone lives in NJ. Did you read my post?

Why wouldn't every saved person live in New Jerusalem?

ewq1938 · Jun 13, 2019

friend of said:
Why wouldn't every saved person live in New Jerusalem?

Why would they? The kings of the Earth live in places around the Earth. The fact that they travel to NJ proves they came from elsewhere.

Dkh587 · Jun 16, 2019

Even with all these threads, I still haven’t seen where God or the Prophets foretold us about the wicked being consciously burned alive forever

Convince me of Annihilationism

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This is me about 1 yr. old.

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A private in Gods army

I love you three.

A private in Gods army

A private in Gods army

This is me about 1 yr. old.

I love you three.

I love you three.

A private in Gods army

I love you three.

A private in Gods army

I love you three.

A private in Gods army

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