Kylie
Defeater of Illogic
This statement is a statement of morality. It presumes that some actions are good, and some are evil. That means there must be a measure by which the morality of an action may be discerned. The statement by itself is one that makes no sense at all without an ultimate determiner of morality. And if you are indeed an atheist, then you cannot truly believe that evil exists. In fact, you even declared that there's no such thing as "moral absolutes." Yet, to say "Evil exists" is to declare a moral absolute.
- Evil exists.
If you intend to prove by the existence of evil that God cannot exist, you're faced with the logical problem that you need an ultimate measure of morality (God) in order to even postulate that evil itself exists! This is an impossible moral dilemma. And you cannot prove the non-existence of God by offering a concept that requires His existence to even postulate.
I think it's clear that I am talking about things like the holocaust, things which most people agree are evil. I get what you're saying about there being no objective standard by which to say something is evil, but that doesn't mean that we can't make subjective judgements.
Still, you're making the argument that without some way of determining exactly what is evil, we can't tell anything, which isn't true, and you are also assuming that the only way we can determine what evil is is to invoke God. But how does God serve as a yardstick by which morality can be measured? Does God do things because they are good? In which case, how does God determine if they are good? Or are things good because God does them, and does that mean murder and rape would be good if God did those?
This is reasonable. But your mistake is in presuming that this is the ONLY thing God wants... or that it is the most important thing that He wants. You're assuming that if He opposes evil conceptually--at all--that He must act to stop it... else you prove that "God is evil" because He doesn't "prevent evil." But that assumption is incorrect.
- God allegedly wants there to be no evil.
Yes, God wants there to be no evil.
But God also wants there to be volitional beings populating this universe... beings who make real choices. And God wants that more than He wants to prevent evil. How do I know that? Because of the very same observations that you are making... If God does not stop people from doing evil things, then there must be something else more important to Him than that result... something that He would lose if He were to intervene and "prevent evil." God wanted us to make our own choices. He wants us to make choices for good--for love--to be sure. But absent the capability to choose wrongly, we do not actually have the capacity to choose rightly.
This is a scenario that you are not even considering. You have unilaterally determined that the most important thing God could possibly want to do is to "prevent evil."
I would suggest that you do not understand the heart and motivation of God enough to jump to that conclusion... therefore, your logical conclusions about what it means (that He doesn't prevent evil) are fundamentally flawed.
Are you able to suggest something that God views as so important it is worth the evil we have in the world to have it?
And isn't what you are saying here just as easily explained by saying, "We see evil in the world, so I have to assume there's something God cares about more than stopping evil, because if I don't make that assumption, I can't explain why evil exists"?
Yet.
- The things we would expect to see in a world where God wants to prevent evil do not exist.
The Bible speaks prophetically about the "end" of the world as we know it. At that time, full justice will be realized. The Bible teaches that all who ever lived will be made alive again, and they will face God as their Judge. Furthermore, the Bible promises that there is more "life" beyond this life here and now... and that will last for eternity... one that is free from evil... on that offers a much longer perspective than the "here and now."
As Paul the Apostle declared, "
For I consider that the sufferings of this present time [evil] are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us." (Romans 8:18)
So... the world where God prevents evil is going to be a reality... it just isn't... yet.
Claiming that it will all be better at some vague point in the future is not very convincing.
Correct.
- Therefore, either the fact of evil existing or the assumption that God wants to prevent it is wrong.
The assumption that God wants to prevent it--[as His primary priority and intent]--is wrong.
God's plans, His purposes, His perspective are bigger than we can fully know, because HE is bigger than we can fully know.
As I've said before, this argument basically boils down to, "I know it doesn't make sense, but just believe it anyway." It insists we be satisfied with ignorance and tells us to stop trying to understand things. I could never do that.
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