The end of capitalism in America?

Our country is going through some troubled times. Economically, many people are having trouble getting jobs that are sufficient to sustain themselves and their families. Many factors are involved, but one is the automation of a lot of jobs that humans used to do. That's something we're going to have to figure out, as a nation.

There's a wave of xenophobia in the country right now, a feeling of wanting to protect "us" Americans from "them" foreigners, so building a wall and raising tariffs and so on. I think it's fueled partly by the economic troubles. But I don't think the xenophobia represents a majority of Americans.

I remain cautiously optimistic about the future of our country, even though it probably looks to outsiders like we've lost our minds. It is a test of the checks and balances that the founders of our government put into place back in the 18th century, as well as a test of our creativity in solving our economic problems. I think we'll survive it.

mukk_in said:

If it is, that'd be quite demoralizing to people like me who idolized America's capitalist democracy. Any thoughts?

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Careful with that mindset.

Have you read this in the Bible?

1 John 1:15-17
Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Fathera]">[a] is not in them. 16 For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. 17 The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

Don't be friends with the world:

John 15:19
If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

1 John 5:19
We know that we are children of God, and that the whole world is under the control of the evil one.

Luke 6:26
Woe to you when everyone speaks well of you, for that is how their ancestors treated the false prophets.

mukk_in said:

Yesterday, in a phone call to CNBC the President blasted the Chamber of Commerce for it's criticism of his trade policies and called tariffs "a beautiful thing." I was wondering, with a such fanatical protectionist, who'll most likely be re-elected, is this the end of American capitalism as we know it? Have Americans really changed that much? If it is, that'd be quite demoralizing to people like me who idolized America's capitalist democracy. Any thoughts?

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America is a BIG country. The culture, values, and even accents of the people in, say, California, are vastly different than that of people in, say, Michigan. What works in one state does not necessarily work in another. What works in urban areas doesn't necessarily work in rural areas.

Those differences are our country's greatest strength but also our greatest weakness. These differences allow us to be creative and innovate but they also divide us and keep us from getting anything done in our governmental system.

I wouldn't say that capitalism is dead here. But more and more people on both sides of the political fence are becoming extremely dissatisfied with how capitalism is being carried out. The basis of capitalism is that everyone has a shot to "make it" (and each individual defines that differently) and with hard work and perseverance, you have a good chance (but not a guarantee) that you will "make it". Unfortunately, in our society today there are a lot of roadblocks that have made it increasingly hard for people to "make it" to the point where hard work and perseverance are no longer enough for the average person. And that is why a lot of people here are dissatisfied.

mukk_in said:

I was wondering, with a such fanatical protectionist, who'll most likely be re-elected, is this the end of American capitalism as we know it?

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Doubtful. Given the system of checks and balances along with the actual authority of the President, I think there's only so much any President could do without running into walls. He, or any President, would need a complicit Congress and Supreme Court to enact policies to structurally change the entire market system. He doesn't have that sort of complicity in Congress (at least not in the House) or Supreme Court. The market system has survived tariffs before, it will survive these.

mukk_in said:

Yesterday, in a phone call to CNBC the President blasted the Chamber of Commerce for it's criticism of his trade policies and called tariffs "a beautiful thing." I was wondering, with a such fanatical protectionist, who'll most likely be re-elected, is this the end of American capitalism as we know it? Have Americans really changed that much? If it is, that'd be quite demoralizing to people like me who idolized America's capitalist democracy. Any thoughts?

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Capitalism was dead before Bush II; we are just now passing through the fog on that one to realize we are a GLOBAL entity - as are the individual nations with respect to the world.

(Global) corporatism, and eventually corporatism in general (extending to space and under the earth) is THE end result of capitalism.

mukk_in said:

Yesterday, in a phone call to CNBC the President blasted the Chamber of Commerce for it's criticism of his trade policies and called tariffs "a beautiful thing." I was wondering, with a such fanatical protectionist,..that'd be quite demoralizing to people like me who idolized America's capitalist democracy. Any thoughts? .

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I'm tempted to begin by pointing out that, in our "capitalist democracy," we have the out-of-power party doing its best to change that democracy, making it much less functional.

But you were mainly writing with the capitalist part of "capitalist democracy" in mind, and it made me think that the president isn't a protectionist in the usual sense of the word. Not at all. He is a negotiator at heart, so tariffs for him are a means towards achieving fair trade, not squelching trade itself. Why would any American who believes in classical economics not want a level playing field in order to encourage trade?

have you ever asked who are the powers and principalities in high places? Is there a shadow government? Why is the foundation of the economy and expansion now credit rather than savings and why do we no longer use silver and gold as money? When you start looking into this you will see the this is the cancer the created corporate cartels and is destroying the middle class. Remember the borrower is slave to the lender and think that all the nations are now indebted to the same central banking system. Socialism is communism with elections. We are seeing the destruction of sovereignty among the nations. The US used to ban corporations and warned about allowing a private central bank. I watch a bit of the old TV series Rockford files and he drives around Los Angles in the late 70's and every strip mall was filled with independent owner operated businesses. The large chains had not taken over yet. That was capitalism when people invested in real business. The richest people now are speculators who create nothing but higher prices.

Wait a minute...aren't we a republic, not a democracy?
tulc(thought that was pointed out in quite a few threads in the last couple years)

tulc said:

Wait a minute...aren't we a republic, not a democracy?
tulc(thought that was pointed out in quite a few threads in the last couple years)

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On paper, the States are a constitutional republic.

mukk_in said:

Agreed. But, for the second time, this thread is more about the economic system not the constitutional correctness. Comments along those lines would be more useful than political correctness which, for this thread, are pretty pointless and a waste of time.

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If you are really seeking our opinions, I have no hesitation in saying that you are going way overboard with your worries.

I really don't see this as an exceptional time, we have gone through many periods more disruptive to our republic and they are now for the most part forgotten. (Though thanks to the Internet we are constantly bomb barded with any and all troubles.) As for capitalism it will remain until a more viable alternative is available. No worries!

mukk_in said:

Thank you. That's useful and reassuring. It's not only for me but everyone. I'm sure many felt the same way some point in time. This thread is for all of them.

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These are perilous times, but my feeling is that the economic system is not so much in danger as is the democratic system.

mukk_in said:

Do you honestly think people here are that ignorant?

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Many Christians act in contrary to those verses I quoted.

They were deceived by false teachings that say "you can love both the world/money and God as long as you love God more...". Not what the Bible teaches.

And the way they live their lives, they end up loving the world more than God, contrary to what they claim to be.

If one knows the truth about the world (also found in the Bible) will realize, they cannot love the world that is corrupted by man for it is evil.

Capitalism exists in a never-ending cycle of growth and recession. These things are expected. No surprises here.