Did the event of 1948 Israel fulfill any Bible prophecy?

Did event of Israel 1948 fulfill any Bible prophecy?


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claninja

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The world would be blessed by Christ- THE seed of Abraham. But in order to be considered a Jew one has to be descended from Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

So for one to be considered a jew, they need to be one outwardly or as you put it "descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob"?

Paul says a Jew is not one outwardly. A man is a Jew inwardly

Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew because he is one outwardly, nor is circumcision only outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew because he is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise does not come from men, but from God.

Yes you are straining at gnats! The time of Ezra is irrelevant to the end times temple.

When you are born again, do you literally come out of your mother's womb a 2nd time?

Does the shadow (law of moses/temple worship and its ceremonies) point towards another literal end times temple (another shadow) or to Christ and his body (the true temple of God built on the foundations of the apostles with Christ as the cornerstone)?

Well as I said that the re institution of the temple does not mean that God approves of the animal sacrificial system, that is irrelevant. God is just reporting the future as to what will happen, not whether He approves of it! Israel thinks os, but that is because as a nation they still have the veil over their eyes when the Torah is read! But when the veil is removed- the nation will be saved!

What did the animal sacrifices in the law point to?

No. The Mosaic Covenant was a conditional covenant God made with Israel and rendered inoperative at the Cross. However the Abrahamic, Davidic, Palestinian and New covenants are unconditional Covenants that are still in effect and God will fulfill what He said He would!

Where does the Abrahamic, Davidic, and New covenant mention temple worship, rituals, ceremonies washings, and animal sacrifices?
 
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Copperhead

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Folks that like to use the “no one knows” of Matthew 24:36 fail to realize the application to the topic in Matthew 24:35 that Yeshua was talking about. When heaven and earth pass away. “That Day” of v36 applies to the antecedent in v35. Lots of these issues would disappear if one just follows basic grammatical rules.
 
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Copperhead

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So for one to be considered a jew, they need to be one outwardly or as you put it "descended from Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob"?

Paul says a Jew is not one outwardly. A man is a Jew inwardly

Romans 2:28-29 A man is not a Jew because he is one outwardly, nor is circumcision only outward and physical. No, a man is a Jew because he is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man’s praise does not come from men, but from God.



When you are born again, do you literally come out of your mother's womb a 2nd time?

Does the shadow (law of moses/temple worship and its ceremonies) point towards another literal end times temple (another shadow) or to Christ and his body (the true temple of God built on the foundations of the apostles with Christ as the cornerstone)?



What did the animal sacrifices in the law point to?



Where does the Abrahamic, Davidic, and New covenant mention temple worship, rituals, ceremonies washings, and animal sacrifices?

That passage of Romans 2:28-29 is in the context of Paul talking specifically to a Jewish audience. Read the preceding several verses and one can see that. That context, Paul is making the point that a Jew is not only one outwardly, but one inwardly. He in no way implies in that passage that anyone other than a physical Jew is now a Jew on the basis of being one inwardly only.
 
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claninja

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That passage of Romans 2:28-29 is in the context of Paul talking specifically to a Jewish audience.

Paul's audience is both Jews and Gentiles (Romans 1:7). Which is one in Christ and Abraham's seed, regardless if they are Jew or Gentile

Ephesian 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

Who is the uncircumcised man: a Jew or Gentile, that is regarded as circumcised for keeping the precepts of the law? what does it mean to be regarded as circumcised when one is physically uncircumcised?

Romans 2:26 So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?

 
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Copperhead

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Paul's audience is both Jews and Gentiles (Romans 1:7). Which is one in Christ and Abraham's seed, regardless if they are Jew or Gentile

Ephesian 3:28-29 There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

Who is the uncircumcised man: a Jew or Gentile, that is regarded as circumcised for keeping the precepts of the law? what does it mean to be regarded as circumcised when one is physically uncircumcised?

Romans 2:26 So, if a man who is uncircumcised keeps the precepts of the law, will not his uncircumcision be regarded as circumcision?

Yes, the Book of Romans has both Jew and Gentile target audience, but that particular passage, Paul is writing specifically to Jews. Read Romans 2:17-29 in context. Paul is applying the last two verses to who he is describing,.. Jews. Not gentile wannabes.
 
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claninja

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Yes, the Book of Romans has both Jew and Gentile target audience, but that particular passage, Paul is writing specifically to Jews. Read Romans 2:17-29 in context. Paul is applying the last two verses to who he is describing,.. Jews. Not gentile wannabes.

You didn't answer the questions I posed to you in post #964.......

Paul clearly states it is not what is outwardly that defines a Jew, but inwardly. Thus if it is not outwardly, then anyone of any race who has their heart circumcised and puts their faith and obedience in the one true God is a true Jew.

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly. neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh

Galatians 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.
 
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Copperhead

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You didn't answer the questions I posed to you in post #964.......

Paul clearly states it is not what is outwardly that defines a Jew, but inwardly. Thus if it is not outwardly, then anyone of any race who has their heart circumcised and puts their faith and obedience in the one true God is a true Jew.

Romans 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly. neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh

Galatians 3:29 And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.

No, I prefer not to answer a battery of questions in a a post. Better to take them one at a time and I took the first one of that group.

Look, you don’t agree with what I am stating and that is fine. Nothing you have countered with is swaying me either.
 
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jgr

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Teh disciples were not asking about the end of the age- but when the Kingdom would be restored to ISrael! what is so hard about that?

So when Jesus responded with a reference to the Day of the Lord instead of a restored Israelitish kingdom, what does that tell you about said kingdom?

You've got it. Confirmed in Matthew 21:43 and 1 Peter 2:9.

Show me one passage that says the Abrahamic, Davidic and Palestinian covenanats and new covenants are fulfilled and thus rendered null and void!

They are testamentary clauses of the one Old Testament, replaced in their entirety by the testamentary clauses of the one New Testament, written in the Blood of the Divine Testator Jesus Christ, and completely fulfilled in Him (2 Corinthians 1:20).

Teh Last Supper , Jesus declared the New covenant.

True.

Hebrews shows the new replacing the old.

True. A new testament replaces an old testament in its entirety, because two testaments cannot simultaneously coexist.

You declaring that it also replaced the Abrahamic, Davidic and Palestinian Covenants are mere conjecture on your part! All these covenants were made by god long before Israel was a nation or people!

See above.

Jesus is heir

True. You're catching on.
 
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claninja

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No, I prefer not to answer a battery of questions in a a post. Better to take them one at a time and I took the first one of that group.

Look, you don’t agree with what I am stating and that is fine. Nothing you have countered with is swaying me either.

A battery of questions? I only asked 2 questions in order to understand your position better. If the intended audience in that part of the romans (2:17-29) passage is specifically to biological Jews, as you claim it is, I wanted to know who you believed the uncircumcised man was in verse 26, Jew or Gentile? Additionally, If you believe the audience is specifically Jewish, I wanted to know what you believe the uncircumcised being regarded as circumcised meant.

Look, you don’t agree with what I am stating and that is fine. Nothing you have countered with is swaying me either.

Copperhead, you engaged me on this discussion, which was between Nilodad and myself originally. I'm not sure why you did if you don't really want to have a discussion on it. I don't fully understand your position, as you won't answer the questions I asked to clarify that position. I don't know how any party could be swayed by something they are unclear of.
 
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nolidad

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So when Jesus responded with a reference to the Day of the Lord instead of a restored Israelitish kingdom, what does that tell you about said kingdom?

But He wasn't informing therm of the Day of the Lord! He was simply telling them not to be concerned with what teh Father has placed in His own hands. Don't pull things out of context. He was answering them about when the Kingdom would be restored- When the Father has declared! You use eisgesis when you need exegesis.

But the Davidic, Palestinian, and Abrahamic Covenant were not part of the old covenant anymore than the Adamic, Edenic and Noahic covenants were clauses of the Mosaic covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31-32 King James Version (KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

Why do you feel compelled to have to add to the simple word of God! The Lord says He will replace this pold covenant which is only the Mosaic covenant. why do you feel compelled to have to add the unconditional covenants to this simple thing that any one who has read exodus would understand as the Mosaic or Law covenant!

Has God revoked the Noahic covenant as well, so that Hew will destroy the world with another flood? Can we eat blood now?

They are testamentary clauses of the one Old Testament, replaced in their entirety by the testamentary clauses of the one New Testament, written in the Blood of the Divine Testator Jesus Christ, and completely fulfilled in Him

Wrong wrong wrong! YOu have to established any link between the three covenants we are discusiing which were made 400 years before the Mosaic Covenant.

Gal. 3: 7 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Paul did notthink the earlier covenants were "testamentary clauses" as you call tehm, and He said that the Mosaic could not anull these prior covenants. Paul calls them separate- what authority do you have to link the four Jewish covenants as one and now call them all fulfilled!

True. A new testament replaces an old testament in its entirety, because two testaments cannot simultaneously coexist.

Absolutely- that is why the New replaced the Mosaic only as jeremiah prophesied and Jesus fulfilled. to link th eothers is adding to what the Word says.

True. You're catching on.

Well I am glad you think so! But after 45 years of walking with the Lord and having been a bible institute teacher as well as a teacher on radio and in newspapers and in local churches, I think I have caught a little bit more than you think I have caught!
 
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jgr

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But He wasn't informing therm of the Day of the Lord! He was simply telling them not to be concerned with what teh Father has placed in His own hands. Don't pull things out of context. He was answering them about when the Kingdom would be restored- When the Father has declared! You use eisgesis when you need exegesis.

But the Davidic, Palestinian, and Abrahamic Covenant were not part of the old covenant anymore than the Adamic, Edenic and Noahic covenants were clauses of the Mosaic covenant.

Jeremiah 31:31-32 King James Version (KJV)
31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:

Why do you feel compelled to have to add to the simple word of God! The Lord says He will replace this pold covenant which is only the Mosaic covenant. why do you feel compelled to have to add the unconditional covenants to this simple thing that any one who has read exodus would understand as the Mosaic or Law covenant!

Has God revoked the Noahic covenant as well, so that Hew will destroy the world with another flood? Can we eat blood now?



Wrong wrong wrong! YOu have to established any link between the three covenants we are discusiing which were made 400 years before the Mosaic Covenant.

Gal. 3: 7 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.

Paul did notthink the earlier covenants were "testamentary clauses" as you call tehm, and He said that the Mosaic could not anull these prior covenants. Paul calls them separate- what authority do you have to link the four Jewish covenants as one and now call them all fulfilled!



Absolutely- that is why the New replaced the Mosaic only as jeremiah prophesied and Jesus fulfilled. to link th eothers is adding to what the Word says.



Well I am glad you think so! But after 45 years of walking with the Lord and having been a bible institute teacher as well as a teacher on radio and in newspapers and in local churches, I think I have caught a little bit more than you think I have caught!

Why do we have only one Old Testament? Why not five or six?
 
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parousia70

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But for the millenial kingdom, all the prophesies concerning Israel ruling the world under Jesus will be fulfilled and gentiles will have to go to Jerusaslem once a year with an offering or their lands will suffer a drought!

So, Your position is that in the "millennium", Human Beings will be required to travel to Jerusalem once a year, and render a blood animal sacrifice directly at the feet of Jesus for atonement of their sins and acceptance by Him?

Can we slaughter one Lamb for the whole family, or will each individual Human need to slaughter their own unblemished lamb as Christ's feet?

Lets say the population at this time has been whittled down to 1 billion...

How long would each person have to stand in line with their lamb in order to have the 3-5 minutes it would take to slaughter it at Christs feet?

Lets do the math....

There are only 525,600 minutes in one year, That's half a million.

How are 1 billion people going to be able to be shuffled through the temple each year, and given the time to render their animal sacrifice??

If we give each person 2 minutes to conduct their sacrifice, that means only 250,000 people will be physically able to spend 2 minutes a year rendering their sacrifice at Christs feet.

How are the other 999,750,000 people going to be able to comply?
 
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nolidad

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So, Your position is that in the "millennium", Human Beings will be required to travel to Jerusalem once a year, and render a blood animal sacrifice directly at the feet of Jesus for atonement of their sins and acceptance by Him?

Can we slaughter one Lamb for the whole family, or will each individual Human need to slaughter their own unblemished lamb as Christ's feet?

Lets say the population at this time has been whittled down to 1 billion...

How long would each person have to stand in line with their lamb in order to have the 3-5 minutes it would take to slaughter it at Christs feet?

Lets do the math....

There are only 525,600 minutes in one year, That's half a million.

How are 1 billion people going to be able to be shuffled through the temple each year, and given the time to render their animal sacrifice??

If we give each person 2 minutes to conduct their sacrifice, that means only 250,000 people will be physically able to spend 2 minutes a year rendering their sacrifice at Christs feet.

How are the other 999,750,000 people going to be able to comply?

that is not my position at all!

But here is my position:
Zechariah 14:16-19 King James Version (KJV)
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

These are those who survived the campaign of Armegeddon and enter the kingdom

These are the sheep of Matthew 25:

Matthew 25:31-40 King James Version (KJV)
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

they will repopulate the earth and send representatives to Jerusalem annually! Just like it says here inScripture!

And I never said it would be a blood sacrifice! Just some sacrifice that is unspecified! It could be a bunch of grapes FAIK!
 
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nolidad

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Why do we have only one Old Testament? Why not five or six?

Cuz man made the division not God! They divided it between B.C. and A.D. Good a place as any to divide the bible! History before Jesus made the scene and then the first arrival of the King!

But if you ever paid attention, you would see that Jesus and all the writers of the New testament just simply called the Old Scripture! Also they divided it between the old covenant (the Law) and the new covenant (the blood of Jesus) Remember this did not happen until sometime at the end of the 4th century or later when the new testament was formally canonized!
 
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nolidad

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Why do we have only one Old Testament? Why not five or six?
But for first usages informally- the first time the term "new testament" was used was in teh mid 2nd century in a letter written by Tertullian.
 
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parousia70

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that is not my position at all!

But here is my position:
Zechariah 14:16-19 King James Version (KJV)
16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.

18 And if the family of Egypt go not up, and come not, that have no rain; there shall be the plague, wherewith the Lord will smite the heathen that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

19 This shall be the punishment of Egypt, and the punishment of all nations that come not up to keep the feast of tabernacles.

These are those who survived the campaign of Armegeddon and enter the kingdom

These are the sheep of Matthew 25:

Matthew 25:31-40 King James Version (KJV)
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

they will repopulate the earth and send representatives to Jerusalem annually! Just like it says here inScripture!

And I never said it would be a blood sacrifice! Just some sacrifice that is unspecified! It could be a bunch of grapes FAIK!

So you do not believe these texts prophesy of this same future Millennium?

Ezekiel 40:39
In the porch of the gate were two tables on each side, on which to slaughter the burnt offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering.

Ezekiel 42:13
the priests who are near to the LORD shall eat the most holy things. There they shall lay the most holy things, the grain offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering;

Ezekiel 43:20
'You shall take some of its blood and put it on its four horns and on the four corners of the ledge and on the border round about; thus you shall cleanse it and make atonement for it.

Ezekiel 43:21
'You shall also take the bull for the sin offering

Ezekiel 43:22
'On the second day you shall offer a male goat without blemish for a sin offering

Ezekiel 43:27
'When they have completed the days, it shall be that on the eighth day and onward, the priests shall offer your burnt offerings on the altar, and your peace offerings; AND I WILL ACCEPT YOU

Ezekiel 44:9
'Thus says the Lord GOD, "No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary.

(Jesus is going to require "Physical Circumcision" of everyone who enters the sanctuary? Really?)

Ezekiel 44:10
"But the Levites who went far from Me when Israel went astray, who went astray from Me after their idols, shall bear the punishment for their iniquity. Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having oversight at the gates of the house and ministering in the house; they shall slaughter the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people

Ezekiel 44:23
"Moreover, they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.


Are these all not Millennial realities in your view?

If not, then WHEN?
 
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nolidad

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So you do not believe these texts prophesy of this same future Millennium?

Ezekiel 40:39
In the porch of the gate were two tables on each side, on which to slaughter the burnt offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering.

Ezekiel 42:13
the priests who are near to the LORD shall eat the most holy things. There they shall lay the most holy things, the grain offering, the sin offering and the guilt offering;

Ezekiel 43:20
'You shall take some of its blood and put it on its four horns and on the four corners of the ledge and on the border round about; thus you shall cleanse it and make atonement for it.

Ezekiel 43:21
'You shall also take the bull for the sin offering

Ezekiel 43:22
'On the second day you shall offer a male goat without blemish for a sin offering

Ezekiel 43:27
'When they have completed the days, it shall be that on the eighth day and onward, the priests shall offer your burnt offerings on the altar, and your peace offerings; AND I WILL ACCEPT YOU

Ezekiel 44:9
'Thus says the Lord GOD, "No foreigner uncircumcised in heart and uncircumcised in flesh of all the foreigners who are among the sons of Israel, shall enter My sanctuary.

(Jesus is going to require "Physical Circumcision" of everyone who enters the sanctuary? Really?)

Ezekiel 44:10
"But the Levites who went far from Me when Israel went astray, who went astray from Me after their idols, shall bear the punishment for their iniquity. Yet they shall be ministers in My sanctuary, having oversight at the gates of the house and ministering in the house; they shall slaughter the burnt offering and the sacrifice for the people

Ezekiel 44:23
"Moreover, they shall teach My people the difference between the holy and the profane, and cause them to discern between the unclean and the clean.


Are these all not Millennial realities in your view?

If not, then WHEN?

The second temple! Ezekiel prophesied from babylon and after Solomons temple was destroyed!

God prophesied the 70 year captivity and the return to the land and resotration of temple sacrifice!

So Ezekiel 40 through the end is a description of the second temple that was started under zerubabbel.

This was a different vision form the 38-39 vision and it gives great detail to rebuilding what was destroyed as Israel did!
 
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parousia70

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The second temple! Ezekiel prophesied from babylon and after Solomons temple was destroyed!

God prophesied the 70 year captivity and the return to the land and resotration of temple sacrifice!

So Ezekiel 40 through the end is a description of the second temple that was started under zerubabbel.

Interesting.
Most futurists I've come across assert that the 2nd temple could not possibly have fulfilled Zeke's Prophesy. They assert there are too many details in the prophesy that do not match.

What makes you think it does?
 
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jgr

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Cuz man made the division not God! They divided it between B.C. and A.D. Good a place as any to divide the bible! History before Jesus made the scene and then the first arrival of the King!

But if you ever paid attention, you would see that Jesus and all the writers of the New testament just simply called the Old Scripture! Also they divided it between the old covenant (the Law) and the new covenant (the blood of Jesus) Remember this did not happen until sometime at the end of the 4th century or later when the new testament was formally canonized!

2 Corinthians 3
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.

An obvious reference to the Torah, which contains all of the testamentary covenant clauses except for the Davidic.

Under one set of covers, in Paul's time.
 
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jgr

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