OSAS
Please stop twisting the verse.
You see, you don't always obey Gods commandment. How many times a day do you fall in and out of salvation?
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When does one lose salvation?
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Please stop twisting the verse.
You see, you don't always obey Gods commandment. How many times a day do you fall in and out of salvation?
This is in post 303: You said:
"As many have also told you several times...if you have nothing to show for it you ought to re-evaluate if you ever believed, have never been rooted in Christ."
You also said this, which is kind of worse:
"Will you show us a chapter in the Bible where the context is about you deciding to quit the faith and God patting you on the butt as you walk away."
I don't report persons, but I also will no longer respond to you.
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Dr. Jack
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The reason "believe" and "believe not" are in the present tense is because Jesus is making His point abundantly clear, If you believe now, you have ETERNAL life NOW ... if you do not believe NOW you are condemned NOW.
Taking the latter first ...
While a person is in unbelief, that person is ALREADY in the condemned state. They don't get placed into that condemned stated upon death. They are there PRESENTLY ... that is why the present tense is used. If you are not believing right now, you are condemned ... RIGHT NOW.
Now the former ...
Jesus is saying, the only way to be ETERNALLY SECURE from that condemned state, is to believe NOW, not in an hour, not tomorrow, NOW.
We see Paul echo this teaching ...
6:2 (For he saith, I have heard thee in a time accepted, and in the day of salvation have I succoured thee: behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.) 2 Corinthians
Since, not if, we are placed IN Christ, and sealed by the HS, our salvation is secure IN Christ, NOT us.
1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory. Ephesians
4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Ephesians
Have you ever read in the Scriptures anywhere that we are given temporary life? No. It is always either eternal life, or everlasting life.
If I get saved on January 1, but lose it on June 1, Jesus lied, He didn't give me everlasting life ... it was only temporary life. This isn't rocket science!
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Not on ly have you. present the Bible out of context....you have done the same with my reply.
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Read Luke 8:13 and notice the words BELIEVE FOR A WHILE
Read The Prodigal Son Luke 15:24 and notice the word AGAIN.
Also, take note that JESUS said the above.
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Their belief had no roots. Some people describe it as head knowledge and not heart knowledge.
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P.S.
Jesus never said we are eternally secure.
He said we have eternal life.
As you've posted, we have eternal life IN HIM.
ONLY IN HIM.
If we abandon God, we are no longer IN HIM,
so we are no longer saved.
Salvation requires being IN CHRIST.
John 15:5-6
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Who cares what people say?
JESUS said THEY BELIEVED FOR A WHILE.
BELIEVED FOR A WHILE means they were saved for a while.
I trust Jesus,,,not what some people think.
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Dr. Jack
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3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John
Do you know the theological difference between "eternal" life and "everlasting" life?
When we are placed IN Christ we have Eternal Life because He IS "eternal life". When we receive Christ as Saviour, we leave the state of condemnation, and enter into the place of being alive, (with Christ) this is the meaning of atonement ... being at one with Christ. There is a point in time when our state of condemnation ends, and our position of being alive with Christ begins.
We, being mortal are placed into the eternal, immortal Christ. But the fact that our entering IN Christ is marked at a specific place in time, means our Life IN Christ had a starting point (at the end of being condemned). Hence, Our life is "everlasting" because it has a beginning point.
Can you provide a single Scripture that Gos tells us we recieve "temporary life"?
But that would mean Jesus lied, He did NOT give us everlasting life ... it was only temporary!
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Then you re saying, in proper context, since you claim beyond doubt, obeying God is believing and we all know we have to believe to have eternal life, you now agree since obey and believe are one in the same, to have eternal life we must believe/obey God?
Why the sudden change of heart?
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Why do you keep taking my points and and changing what you can't answer to into something you can answer to?
My point had nothing to do with all that, it was to say believing in God/Christ means we have to obey them, and we do as they say, not just doing as you all do and only "saying" saying believe. that is a fake belief, or saying with no action top prove that belief.
Let me ask you, do you have to obey Jesus/God in order to get to heaven or is that not part of believing in them to you??
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Dr. Jack
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You're missing the point. Unbelief is the BASIS for disobedience. In other words, belief brings our obedience. However, salvation is based upon the belief we have in Christ. Believe precedes salvation. And salvation precedes our obedience to God's commandments concerning holiness.
I was born of the flesh in 1960, and it is impossible for me to be unborn. I was born of the Spirit of God on 1983 when I first believed IN Christ.
On October 31, 1983 I was born of the Spirit of God. It happened at 1205 Monday morning. God gave me everlasting life according to John 3:16. My salvation depends NOT upon what I do for Christ, but what Christ did for me. He sealed me that day.
Now, God has a purpose for my life. My life is to glorify Him.
In Matthew we read ...
5:14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid. 5:15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. 5:16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. Matthew
Now the question is, WHY should I let my light shine? The text tells us. "that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven". Did it say, "so you can be assured of heaven", or maybe, "so you can retain your salvation"? NO.
It says, "that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven". Why? Because it is through our testimony of having good works that OTHER people see Christ.
Let me simplify this, by believing in Christ, Christ saves ME. By being obedient to God AFTER I get saved, I do good works, which glorifies God, and OTHER people get saved.
This is what Paul said ...
1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.1:22 But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not. 1:23 For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better: 1:24 Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you. Philippians
Paul was ready to die, and go to be with the Lord ... but "to abide in the flesh is more needful for you".
By abiding in the flesh, Paul was reaching OTHERS for Christ.
What did Paul say about his salvation?
1:12 For the which cause I also suffer these things: nevertheless I am not ashamed: for I know whom I have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which I have committed unto him against that day. 2 Timothy
And Peter ...
4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator. 1 Peter
Both Paul and Peter committed the keeping of their souls to God.
If my son gives me his motorcycle, and says, "Dad, I'm committing the care of my motorcycle to you", then leaves on a long journey, who is taking care of his motorcycle, him, or me?
That is what eternal security is all about. I commit my soul to God, and have no more concerns about it. My concern is the souls of others, because mine is secure in Christ.
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Jesus never lied.
The problem is that some of us like a few verses and stick to those instead of taking in the meaning of all of the N.T.
Jesus gives everlasting life to those that are IN HIM.
If we are IN CHRIST, we have everlasting life...
to be received at the end of our life when the guarantee of the Holy Spirit comes to fruition.
He who does not have the Son and is NOT IN CHRIST...does NOT have eternal life.
1 John 5:11-12
11And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son.
12He who has the Son has the life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have the life.
Titus 3:7
7so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Jesus is the resurrection and the life....
and He says so - in the present tense. We must BELIEVE IN Him....when we die.
John 11:25-26
25Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, 26and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die. Do you believe this?”
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Again, believeth --- present tense.
We can't get away from the fact that we must believe in God --- not had believed at some point and then fell away from our faith, as the N.T. teaches.
Why? Some theologians think there's a difference and some don't. I'm not willing to take a stand if they cannot. I'll only say that eternal life is referring to a quality of life more than quantity.
I will say that I do agree that our eternal life begins here. Jesus preached a lot about the Kingdom of God...He only mentioned salvation a few times. But He made it clear that the Kingdom here is a real spiritual place and that there is a ruler, HIM, and there are rules...just like any Kingdom would have. If we wish to remain in the Kingdom...we must follow its rules.
Agreed.
I agree with all of the above, as long as we REMAIN IN CHRIST.
It's clear from scripture that we can fall away.
As to "everlasting"....everyone has everlasting life...our soul and spirit remain alive after death. Even those that are destined for hell have everlasting life. Only those going to heaven have eternal life (referring to quality). But, again, I don't really wish to debate these terms.
Sure.
As soon as you provide some scripture that tells us we can be saved WITHOUT JESUS and WITHOUT FAITH.
You yourself have answered the above.
We have eternal life when we are IN CHRIST.
If we are not IN CHRIST we do not have eternal life.
2 Peter 2:20-22
20For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first.
21For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment handed on to them.
22It has happened to them according to the true proverb, “A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT,” and, “A sow, after washing, returns to wallowing in the mire.”
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