Jesus’s crucifixion, death and burial must be seen as undesirable from God’s perspective. Matt 26:39

Alpha-and-Omega said:

Book of Hebrews?

But you didn’t care to mention the exact verse which you have claimed that there is “joyful anticipation”.

Consequently, I do not believe there is such a verse at all in the Book of Hebrews.

Besides, there is another fundamental flaw to this argument.

Because the events you have described have already happened in the 1st century AD; namely, the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4.

But the Bible is very specific on this point. Those events described have happened only ONCE, but will never happen again.

Since we know that Christ will return to Reign, but never to be crucified again.

But the Bible is clear that those events have only happened ONCE. It doesn’t say more than one, nor does it say that Christ would return to be crucified yet again.

So what do you have to say?

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Alpha-and-Omega said:

Then, perhaps you would like to comment on a different thread:

The vessels of destruction are predestined by the Almighty: Romans 9.

I would be curious to have your viewpoint on this particular matter.

Do we really suppose that God created all the vessels of destruction AND vessels of mercy to be EQUAL in all respects.

As there are clearly global and macro scale disparities in terms of Salvation, national wealth, natural resources, intellectual property, military capability, economic and political influence etc.

Do we really suppose that the Creator has bestowed the same blessings on all countries, which are either vessels of destruction or vessels of mercy?

God is completely impartial in light of Romans 9:21?

Does God not have favourites at all: Romans 9:21.

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ewq1938 said:

As I said, nothing in that scripture shows reluctance on the part of the Father, only the Son but the Son willfully accepts the Father's planned way.

You said, "God had reluctantly sacrificed his son Jesus" but you did not show any reluctance on the Father's part.





That's wrong.




No, the will of the son is clearly not the will of the Father as the verse you have been misapplying shows:

Mat 26:39 And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.
Mat 26:40 And he cometh unto the disciples, and findeth them asleep, and saith unto Peter, What, could ye not watch with me one hour?
Mat 26:41 Watch and pray, that ye enter not into temptation: the spirit indeed is willing, but the flesh is weak.
Mat 26:42 He went away again the second time, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if this cup may not pass away from me, except I drink it, thy will be done.

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Alpha-and-Omega said:

Hebrews 12:2 looking unto Jesus the author and perfecter of [our] faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising shame, and hath sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

The above Scripture (bold type) doesn’t specifically say that Jesus was in “joyful anticipation” about his imminent execution by the Romans, but on the contrary he endured great suffering on the cross, as evident by the Scripture.

This reference to “joyful anticipation” alludes to all the other positive aspects of his ministry as a preacher, teacher and healer.

Consequently, there was “joyful anticipation” about all the OTHER positive events in the life of Christ, but this particular passage doesn’t actually say that he had “joyful anticipation” about his imminent execution by the Romans.

Rather than joyful anticipation, Jesus endured the cross as evident by the Scripture.

Ultimately, the “joyful anticipation” is concerning all the OTHER positive events in the life of Christ (including his resurrection), which have nothing to do with the subsequent ordeal of his execution by the Romans.

Last but not least, this particular passage has attested to Jesus’s shame of having been executed by the Romans.

That the cross is a mark of shame goes without any shadow of doubt.

Ultimately, the idea of “shame” is tantamount to “undesirable” in the English language, as much as any other language.

Despite his joyful anticipation about OTHER positive events in the life of Christ, Jesus still endured, or suffered at the hands of the Romans. Which is evident by the above Scripture.

Yet, there is no paradox, and no contradiction whatsoever.

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royal priest said:

Jesus looked beyond the cross to the prize. No cross, no prize. Why do we bear the cross? Not for the shame. On the contrary, we despise the shame, but we endure it with rejoicing knowing what lies ahead for those who endure to the end. No chastisement is pleasant in the moment, but we don't resist it because God brings it in order to bear the fruit of righteousness in our lives. For this reason, you ought to consider it joy when you fall into various trials.

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bling said:

It does not have to be all for Jesus' personal joy and pleasure, but the Joy Christ receives from our being lovingly disciplined by His going to the cross "being crucified with Christ" and the fact after the cross we can now have the indwelling Holy Spirit.

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